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Crazy stat regarding the #1 pick over all in the draft
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COSSUCKS
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8/9/2007  10:04 PM
Posted by Vmart:
Posted by COSSUCKS:

Only 1 team (Spurs)has won the NBA championship in the last 22 years with a player (Duncan/Robinson) they have chosen with the number 1 over all pick in the draft.


Which Robinson are you refering to? Glenn or David. I think the Spurs won with Glen too.

You are right but Glen did not do it for the team (Bucks) that drafted him.

AUTOADVERT
COSSUCKS
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8/9/2007  10:04 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by COSSUCKS:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by COSSUCKS:

Exceptions? The lottery is made up of 15 teams. Even if you assume that we have the worst record (which is a huge assumption) the odds of getting the #1 pick for the team is no greater than 25% I believe.

Thats not an exception to the rule. Go look it up!

This is why you're not worth talking to you. You intentionally miss the point and tried to catch me on a "technicality", of which everyone knows was not the point to start with.

Dude you spoin so much that I have no idea what point you are trying to make at all.

The thread was about a fact SI had pointed out in their magazine in regards to #1 over all picks. It had nothing to do with Isiah, Curry, or Marbury.
You and your clone persona freak out and try to turn every thread in to a bash on Isiah or the Knicks. Sports Illustrated never mentioned the Knicks nor Isiah


Yea, I tried to follow the conversation and really I have no clue what he is asking of you, but it seems that any point made on this forum, has to be turned around into a isiah and knick bashing, and when one doesn't give into arguing that point, then he is accused of evasion.....

At least that is what is seems like....

LOL. it was a funny conversation, I have no idea what Solace was nitpicking about either.

Thank you Martin! :)
Solace
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8/9/2007  10:05 PM
Posted by martin:

LOL. it was a funny conversation, I have no idea what Solace was nitpicking about either.

You guys are hopeless.

Apparently it's against the rules to ask people to justify what they mean when they say things. Sorry I missed the memo.

It's no wonder this board has turned to crap. Done with this thread.

[Edited by - Solace on Aug 09 2007 10:07 PM]
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martin
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8/9/2007  10:13 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by martin:

LOL. it was a funny conversation, I have no idea what Solace was nitpicking about either.

You guys are hopeless.

Apparently it's against the rules to ask people to justify what they mean when they say things. Sorry I missed the memo.

It's no wonder this board has turned to crap. Done with this thread.

[Edited by - Solace on Aug 09 2007 10:07 PM]

if something is unclear to you or if there is a misunderstanding, wouldn't it just be better to ask COSSUCKS to clear it up? Instead of attacking him?

And really, I tried to understand what you were getting at and still can't.
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Solace
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8/9/2007  10:31 PM
Posted by martin:

if something is unclear to you or if there is a misunderstanding, wouldn't it just be better to ask COSSUCKS to clear it up? Instead of attacking him?

And really, I tried to understand what you were getting at and still can't.

I asked him multiple times, he refused to answer. He sidestepped the question at least five times. I'm not here to babysit people who don't want to have actual conversations.
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Solace
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8/9/2007  10:31 PM
Posted by martin:

if something is unclear to you or if there is a misunderstanding, wouldn't it just be better to ask COSSUCKS to clear it up? Instead of attacking him?

And really, I tried to understand what you were getting at and still can't.

I asked him multiple times, he refused to answer. He sidestepped the question at least five times. I'm not here to babysit people who don't want to have actual conversations.
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COSSUCKS
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8/9/2007  10:34 PM
Solace give it a break. I answered you the very first time. You just did not get the answer you wanted so you ignored it.
Solace
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8/9/2007  11:20 PM
Posted by COSSUCKS:

Solace give it a break. I answered you the very first time. You just did not get the answer you wanted so you ignored it.

You still never answered my actual question. I actually don't care anymore, though. *shrug*
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TrueBlue
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8/9/2007  11:29 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by COSSUCKS:

Solace give it a break. I answered you the very first time. You just did not get the answer you wanted so you ignored it.

You still never answered my actual question. I actually don't care anymore, though. *shrug*


You should have highlighted the first instance in which you asked the question.
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Solace
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8/9/2007  11:56 PM
Posted by COSSUCKS:

I could show plenty of guys drafted low that have made the nba finals or even won. What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

What's your point? NBA rosters have 15 players. Every team has a mix of stud players, good players, role players and bench warmers.
Posted by COSSUCKS:

The point was that the stat Sports Illustrated posted was surprising. The post I responded to just seemed like a rationalization of that. Notice that he responds, but doesn't address my actual question. I then repeatedly asked him to answer the question and was ignored every time. I still don't know why he made such a stupid random comment that's so ridiculously obvious as to prove nothing.

How does mentioning that low drafted players have won titles before have anything to do with anything?

I think this is a silly rationalization for Isiah trading away high lottery picks. I merely stated what this appeared to be based on prior history.

This was never answered. He makes random "points" and then can't justify them so he ignores the argument.

...
..
.

Anyway, quite frankly, I'm tired, and getting more than tired of the crap that goes on this board lately. I'm going to call it a night and see if I feel better about this in the morning.

[Edited by - Solace on Aug 09 2007 11:58 PM]
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TrueBlue
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8/10/2007  12:16 AM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by COSSUCKS:

I could show plenty of guys drafted low that have made the nba finals or even won. What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

What's your point? NBA rosters have 15 players. Every team has a mix of stud players, good players, role players and bench warmers.
Posted by COSSUCKS:

The point was that the stat Sports Illustrated posted was surprising. The post I responded to just seemed like a rationalization of that. Notice that he responds, but doesn't address my actual question. I then repeatedly asked him to answer the question and was ignored every time. I still don't know why he made such a stupid random comment that's so ridiculously obvious as to prove nothing.

How does mentioning that low drafted players have won titles before have anything to do with anything?

I think this is a silly rationalization for Isiah trading away high lottery picks. I merely stated what this appeared to be based on prior history.

This was never answered. He makes random "points" and then can't justify them so he ignores the argument.

...
..
.

Anyway, quite frankly, I'm tired, and getting more than tired of the crap that goes on this board lately. I'm going to call it a night and see if I feel better about this in the morning.

[Edited by - Solace on Aug 09 2007 11:58 PM]


He tried to sidestep it. I know why he really posted the article. Basically he's trying to tell those who say why has I SAY UGH traded away multiple unprotected first round picks(3 of the 4)which appear to be lottery picks to STFU because #1 picks don't equate to championships nor does winding up with the worst record in the NBA mean anything because at worst if you land the #1 pick you'll be a contender or you end up with a Top 5 pick that could produce a championship because #1's don't. LOL!


THE END!

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 08-10-2007 12:24 AM]
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kam77
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8/10/2007  1:19 AM
When did Cossucks tell anyone to STFU? I thought it was an interesting stat. Thanks for that. As for the others.. you guys are way too vain, you probably think this post is about you.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
TrueBlue
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8/10/2007  1:25 AM
Posted by kam77:

When did Cossucks tell anyone to STFU? I thought it was an interesting stat. Thanks for that. As for the others.. you guys are way too vain, you probably think this post is about you.

It's implied through the convo.
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COSSUCKS
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8/10/2007  4:38 AM
Nobody ever mentioned Isiah nor the Knicks in the original post.

The thread was about a single fact that Sports Illustrated pointed out regarding #1 overall picks.

Last time I looked Isiah never traded a #1 overall pick so there was no implication either.

Some people just can not let a single thread go by no matter what the topic without hijacking it in to a thread bashing Isiah, or Knicks players.
Ira
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8/10/2007  6:04 AM
Posted by franco12:

All this shows is that teams with the number one pick rarely pick the best player in the draft.

MJ should have been a number one pick.

Let's see. I'll list the rookie of the year in parenthesis after the player.


2006 - Andrea Bargnani (Roy) - Toronto - Italy

2005 - Andrew Bogut (Paul) - Milwaukee - Utah

2004 - Dwight Howard (Okafor)- Orlando - SW Atlanta Christian Academy (GA)

2003 - LeBron James (James) - Cleveland - St. Vincent-St. Mary HS (OH) (NBA Finals)

2002 - Yao Ming (Stoudamire) - Houston - China

2001 - Kwame Brown (Gasol) - Washington - Glynn Academy (MJ HAS NO IDEA)

2000 - Kenyon Martin (Miller) - New Jersey Nets - Cincinnati (NBA FINALS TWICE)

1999 - Elton Brand (Brand/Francis) - Chicago Bulls - Duke

1998 - Michael Olowokandi (Carter)- Los Angeles Clippers - Pacific (Cal.)

1997 - Tim Duncan (Duncan) - San Antonio - Wake Forest (NBA Champion)

1996 - Allen Iverson (Iverson)- Philadelphia - Georgetown

1995 - Joe Smith (Stoudamire) - Golden State - Maryland GARNETT

1994 - Glenn Robinson (Hill/Kidd) - Milwaukee - Purdue

1993 - Chris Webber (Webber) - Orlando - Michigan

1992 - Shaquille O'Neal (Shaq)- Orlando - Louisiana State (4 Championships)

1991 - Larry Johnson(Johnson)- Charlotte - Nevada-Las Vegas (NBA FINALS)

1990 - Derrick Coleman (Coleman) - New Jersey - Syracuse

1989 - Pervis Ellison (Robinson) - Sacramento - Louisville

1988 - Danny Manning (Richmond) - L.A. Clippers - Kansas

1987 - David Robinson (Jackson) - San Antonio - Navy

1986 - Brad Daugherty (Person) - Cleveland - North Carolina

1985 - Patrick Ewing (Ewing) - New York - Georgetown (NBA FINALS TWICE)
tkf
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8/10/2007  10:01 AM
Posted by kam77:

When did Cossucks tell anyone to STFU? I thought it was an interesting stat. Thanks for that. As for the others.. you guys are way too vain, you probably think this post is about you.


yea, it was an interesting stat, and really has no relation to Isiah and the knicks unless you have this hard on for turning everything into a negative regarding the knicks...

THE END!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Solace
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8/10/2007  10:06 AM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by kam77:

When did Cossucks tell anyone to STFU? I thought it was an interesting stat. Thanks for that. As for the others.. you guys are way too vain, you probably think this post is about you.


yea, it was an interesting stat, and really has no relation to Isiah and the knicks unless you have this hard on for turning everything into a negative regarding the knicks...

THE END!

That's what was implied by the convo, I agree with TB above. The way the stats were presented, then the outrage and refusal to answer my question enforces the suspicion. But anyway, it's done, let's stop arguing over something dumb.

Moreso, I'd like to commend kam for that reference. That's a great song. "You're so vain, you probably think this song is about you."
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codeunknown
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8/10/2007  11:35 AM
I think this stat is incredibly meaningless. Its computed so incredibly stupidly that I can't believe its generated even this much interest. Start with the fact that by excluding previous No.1 picks (before the instatement of the lottery), you leave out an important detail that 4 of those championships (in the past 22 years) were by Magic and Hakeem, No.1 picks of the Lakers and Rockets. This shouldn't surpise anyone because, honestly, its retarded to assume that rookies would start winning championships on some of the worst teams in the league from the get go.

The other major problem with trying to make a general statement like "few teams have won by picking the no.1 pick over 22 years" is that the vast majority, if not the entirety, of those championships have been decided by only a handful of decisions. In other words, 22 years becomes a tiny sample size because a trade and draft choice, here and there, can impact up to 10 championships. Let me give you an example. If Jordan stays at UNC for 1 more year, then he is selected No.1 overall and 6 championships are potentially won by him as a No.1 pick (and maybe even more, if surrounded sooner by a better supporting cast). If Shaq isn't traded, then his 4 championships also hang in the balance - they likely would have been won by either him as a drafted No.1 pick or by the other star No.1 pick (Tim Duncan). So, 10 championships sway on 2 chance occurences and its impossible to make a meaningful statement about either the quality of no.1 picks or the ability to keep drafted No.1 picks from this statistic. And, of course, it has zero functional implications for how to run a team.

There are 3 bottom lines; 1. The contract limitations of the current NBA make it very likely that stars will remain with teams that drafted them, 2. If we did a pick-by-pick analysis of selected players over history, it will almost certainly be revealed that the best players go first and 3) The best players help you win championships. So, its undeniable that securing the best position in a draft is critical to rebuilding a team. Whether the quality of the No.1 and No.2 overall picks vary significantly is a semantic and rather irrelevant argumnent, especially considering the lottery format.
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Solace
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8/10/2007  11:42 AM
Excellent points, codeunknown.
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djsunyc
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8/10/2007  11:45 AM
you know what would be interesting to find out: how many lottery teams since 1985 have played in an nba finals.

not sure where to find that stat.
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Crazy stat regarding the #1 pick over all in the draft
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