Izybx - I wasn't bashing cops with what I said. Cops are like soldiers in Iraq. Yeah I hate the war, but no way do I hate the troops. Understand?

There have been times where there was an incident outside the building where I live and for the next few days there was a cop in front of the building. During that time I could have a picnic in the stairways and no one would bother me. That's all it would take to deter the *******s that commit crimes.

Subway cops spend a lot of time hiding behind walls trying yo catch people jumping the turnstile. Those bag check checkpoints are bogus too. I had my bags checked while I was getting on the train with my 10 year old, 2 year old and their moms one time. A cop actually jumped in front of me out of all the people around with bags. Are they looking for weapons of mass destruction? Or looking for baby powder so they can take me in for possible drug charges?

Also they know who the dealers see cuz every summer they make a big arrest and take about 5 dudes off the block. They just walk up to their apartments, the same ones mind you, and knock on the door. Before summer they are back. Its not like business stopped cuz the guys still are out there openly doing **** as soon as the cops leave.

Its not the individual cop. Yeah cops are people. That line pissed me off. Against the man mentality made me angry also. You guys know damn well what goes down out there.

My point is if a place is know for drugs for 30 plus years why isn't it cleaned up? Why? That's the million dollar question. We have explained why people do this, but this is also a major reason why it still goes on. Its called containment. Its the higher ups that make the decisions.

The only way that an area will change is economiclly. The projects in manhatten are all gonna be condos soon. That's when the people will be forced to leave. Same with regular rents in bad neighborhoods. Harlem is almost gone. Williamsberg and Les are almost gone as well. Only through economics. They stick a luxury appartment building a starbucks and a few trendy stores what happens? Property value goes up, rents go up people move and take the crime with them. That's the only way and its the wrong way.

Posted by EnySpree:

The only way that an area will change is economiclly. The projects in manhatten are all gonna be condos soon. That's when the people will be forced to leave. Same with regular rents in bad neighborhoods. Harlem is almost gone. Williamsberg and Les are almost gone as well. Only through economics. They stick a luxury appartment building a starbucks and a few trendy stores what happens? Property value goes up, rents go up people move and take the crime with them. That's the only way and its the wrong way.

THis is the gospel. THe problem isn't solved, its evicted. So these poor families will be forced upstate and they will take the behavior with them. IF they have sons who sold drugs in NY, they will sell drugs upstate, especially where drug sales make more money, and job oppurtunities are fewer and less lucrative.

Posted by Killa4luv:

Crime has its roots in social conditions. People who are living decently, can get a job and take care of their family, dont tend to commit crime. When a neighborhood is left in squalor for years, essentially neglected, poverty thrives, the schools are bad, what happens? People use drugs and others sell them and/or commit a whole host of crimes. Decent people get mad and get suckied in by the tough on crime talk that the politicians say to get elected. They give reformable people long sentences in tough prisons, where they do what? Learn how to be an ignorant person, network with other criminals, etc. School programs barely exist in jail and there is no correction going on. The opposite is happening.

So now these guys get out of prison, and what happens?If they wanna change its hard as hell to get a job AND theyve got a felony, and if they dont wanna change they learned how to be a better criminal, they are more hardened and more hardcore.

The reality is that prisons have to change dramatically, and society needs to realease you cant arrest problems away. These kids behave like this because they live in a crazy place and see no hope for the future. Give them something to hold onto, help them break the cycle. Add to that the fact that ignorant people (drug addicts, criminals, etc.) tend to have more kids than working people.

I know the right focusses on personal decisions as the source of all the worlds ills, but if you put nearly anygroup of people in certain conditions, you will inevitably create crime. Lets attack certain social conditions, I'd start with jobs, lets get these ex cons some jobs, that will do alot towards fixing some of the madness. Get these guys out of the street, many of them want to and will work, but feel hopeless. Lets tailor education in some of these places to the reality that these kids live in. That would go far to keeping them out of gangs, out of crime and stuff. You can't rely on alot of parents, because many of them are lost, you have to deal with kids and dudes who come out of prison. Reofrm the prisons as well.

At the end of the day, we spend trillions on Iraq, a fraction of that could fix most of what we are talking about, there is just no political will or public support. Everyone will think longer sentences and tougher laws is the answer. Its not. Its a huge part of what has made things worse. But fixing these issues the way I suggest is not sexy, longer sentences are.

wonderful post killa


[Edited by - playa2 on 08-08-2007 11:48]

Well the way I look at as far as people turning to drugs to deal with their problems, they do it now anyways, whether it is legal or not.

People go to bars on Friday night after a week of work to relax, what is the difference? If somebody is going to smoke weed on Friday night instead of bars I really don't see what the big deal is.

Maybe marginally more people will do drugs, but if they are legal, so what? I'm big on not protecting people from themselves, and it is not because they "deserve it". I'm against protecting people from themselves because that is how things are only made worse by inept government intervention.

And making recreational drugs like weed, e, etc., legal would provide a boost for economy as well creating a whole new market. I mean the stuff is sold now, its just not taxed, instead we pay even more for it by way of police and prison expenses. Its just dumb, like prohibition was. Legalize, tax, and regulate. Everybody benefits.

Posted by Killa4luv:

Crime has its roots in social conditions. People who are living decently, can get a job and take care of their family, dont tend to commit crime. When a neighborhood is left in squalor for years, essentially neglected, poverty thrives, the schools are bad, what happens? People use drugs and others sell them and/or commit a whole host of crimes. Decent people get mad and get suckied in by the tough on crime talk that the politicians say to get elected. They give reformable people long sentences in tough prisons, where they do what? Learn how to be an ignorant person, network with other criminals, etc. School programs barely exist in jail and there is no correction going on. The opposite is happening.

So now these guys get out of prison, and what happens?If they wanna change its hard as hell to get a job AND theyve got a felony, and if they dont wanna change they learned how to be a better criminal, they are more hardened and more hardcore.

The reality is that prisons have to change dramatically, and society needs to realease you cant arrest problems away. These kids behave like this because they live in a crazy place and see no hope for the future. Give them something to hold onto, help them break the cycle. Add to that the fact that ignorant people (drug addicts, criminals, etc.) tend to have more kids than working people.

I know the right focusses on personal decisions as the source of all the worlds ills, but if you put nearly anygroup of people in certain conditions, you will inevitably create crime. Lets attack certain social conditions, I'd start with jobs, lets get these ex cons some jobs, that will do alot towards fixing some of the madness. Get these guys out of the street, many of them want to and will work, but feel hopeless. Lets tailor education in some of these places to the reality that these kids live in. That would go far to keeping them out of gangs, out of crime and stuff. You can't rely on alot of parents, because many of them are lost, you have to deal with kids and dudes who come out of prison. Reofrm the prisons as well.

At the end of the day, we spend trillions on Iraq, a fraction of that could fix most of what we are talking about, there is just no political will or public support. Everyone will think longer sentences and tougher laws is the answer. Its not. Its a huge part of what has made things worse. But fixing these issues the way I suggest is not sexy, longer sentences are.

Everything you say is 100% absolutely true but the reality is this: no one gives a damn. Are you expecting your politicians to step up to the plate and realize this harsh reality and take action to fix this self-defeating institution for young minority males? We live in a Darwinists society my friend and its every person for themselves. So if you have a community of people that are apart of this system than the only people who can and will change it is them. Listen I here where your coming from and I don’t deny that you make excellent points but me personally im tired of hearing these same ole stories about well my environment was bad, my mother left me, I never met my father, selling drugs or joining a gang is my only option. Yes yes yes we all heard we all know it. Poor people are no different today than any other people of other times and now. When you are poor you are more vulnerable to living in a violent neighborhood, less education, and poverty. The same as it was for the Native Americans, immigrants of the early 20th century, the same for people today living in Latin America, Europe, or Africa. These conditions you describe are not unique. If the people want change and want a better life than you absolutely must demand it by your own hands not by some government official or some celebrity do-gooder but by the people themselves. Because at the end of the day no one gives **** about you but you. The sooner we come to terms with the fact and act accordingly the sooner things can begin to change.

What the minority poor, and lets be real here, we are talking primarily about African American poor lack the most is an established culture.

Wait is this a relevation that happened in the past 20 years? Of course not our ancestors, great grand parents, etc all come from the same roots. The same history entrenched in slavery and racism. This isn't new.
Yet the problems that are being dealt with in the African American community today only began what maybe 15 20 years at most. So yes I agree that losing all sense of culture and identity is a major factor and really something that has for the most part not been dealt with that still doesn't not get people any closer to solutions. Because frankly most of these kids walking around today don't know and whats more they don't even care about their history. So how can you blame something in which you know nothing about?

That is why they always outperformed by every new immigrant group that comes into US, be it Eastern European immigrants in the past or Latin/Mexican immigrants of today.

That is grossly untrue. Seriously if you think that what has gone on recently is indicative of the entire African American history than you need you need a history lesson. Until recently blacks, other minorities, and new immigrants were doing most of the hard labor in this country so contrary to your statement it wasn't a case of "outperforming" as you suggest. The jobs were there than disppeared. Planets started closing other jobs started being shipped oversees, laxed border policy thus huge influx of cheap labor voila guess whose out of the job? Thats how it happened not that blacks were being out performed.

So the question where can this culture can come from? I say from the inside, because anything introduced from the outside would be and is viewed as unwelcome.

There needs to be a major change of mentality in America as whole. Right now we live in a society thats plagued with apathy, xenophobia,an anti-intelligentsia sentiment, and generally speaking we have very little respect for human life. So at the end of the day its all about the individual and what they are going to do about their plight. This is the simplistic version but roughly thats what it boils down to.

Posted by McK1:

Posted by bitty41:

McK1

A lot of people don't like our ex-mayor but under him, the economy was revitalized and the murder rate dropped. IMO since the new regime first started making a play for power a few years back, the city took a turn for the worse.

I take major issue with these statements. The last mayor Sharp James due to his administrations "cooking of the books" the city is being forced to lay-off hundreds possibly thousands of employees. The murder rate please do you know how they counted murders under Sharp James? If say I murdered 3 people on one night they counted that as one murder as oppossed to 3 three it should actually be. Not to mention that if they find a body unless it something plainly obvious of foul play the cops didn't put it down as murder. For all its dropping of murder rates Newark still ranks among the highest in the country for murder rates.

Sharpe James was disgrace to Newark and its truly sad that some Newarkers don't realize this fact. He made deals with all sorts of devils to make a few bucks he abused his position of power that he would make Tammany Hall
proud. Please don't get me started on that scum.

And well Corey Booker is just completely over his head and worthless for the most part.

don't want to argue abt James worth so this is my closing response

during his multiple terms Newark prospered, especially in the mid to late 90's. Dunno how that can be denied especially with the multiple projects downtown such as Gateway, the coming arena, the Bears stadium, the formerly MBNA complex to name a few. theres also the multiple community centers which were remodeled/refurbished and dedicated by Shaq that all happened n Mayor James watch.

And whether or not they properly recorded murders, the streets/night establishments felt a helluva lot safer than they do now.

Your right this isn't a good conversation to have because I admit off the bat after doing my own research talking to a few politically active people here in Newark and a few people who've lived here for the past 40 years the conclusion that I've drawn is that Sharpe James ranks in the Tom Delay category of political scum. He profited strictly off of the very people he was suppose to be serving people and whats worse people who were the most vunerable.
I guess you can take these questions as rhetorical but tell me what was the unemployment rate, drop out rate, how many residents had been incarerated, how many residents had health insurance, and oh how many local construction companies were contracted build these various projects under Sharpe James? I would provide facts, dates, statistics, and personal accounts but I'll leave it.