Posted by bigbeast:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by bigbeast:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by nixluva:

Chandler is still early in his development, but I'd say that he actually does everything pretty well. What's wrong with a SF that can defend, plays the passing lanes, block shots, hit from 3, handle the ball, pass it well and has great hops? I mean geez!

Nothing wrong with that. The CBA, Developmental League and European Leagues are filled with guys who possess the same skills as Chandler.

OH REALLY? I don't see it quite that way, but it's so early that who can be sure. I just thought that the guy showed amazing poise and skill for a 20 year old kid. Ariza wasn't anywhere near that level of all around skill at the same age and he's in the NBA. Chandler has similar kinds of atheltic ability as Ariza, but he's a much smoother player. That comes off as him not having a great motor, but he just seems to be in more control of his motions. He sneaks up on you like Mardy did. You think Mardy's moving slow and then he's by you and laying it up. Like Mardy he always seems to get there for a rebound, but he's just not as exciting as Balkman in terms of how it looks when he does these things. He's not flying out of control all over the court, but when he needs that burst of energy he's got plenty.

Wait, are you still basing your comments on Summer League??

That's awesome.

The fact that he doesn't have a great motor was based on his entire college career. Although I loved that whole "smooth" argument. That was great spin. Loved it.

"Chandler had a smooth summer league with the 5-0 Knicks, averaging 13.4 points (shooting 50.9 percent) with 5.2 rebounds in 28 minutes per game." Berman.

Nix isn't the only person who believes Chandler is a smooth player. Chandler doesn't waste energy, and isn't reckless like Balk/Camby type players but to say he doesn't have a great motor is a stretch. The guy averaged 2 blocks per (yeah I know it was just summer league)and made some really good defensive plays.

From Draft Express:

"For most of his basketball career, the biggest knock against Chandler has always been his tendency to coast through games and not assert himself. He’s an extremely reserved, quiet person off the court, and this unsurprisingly lends itself perfectly onto the basketball court as well. Too often he will just camp outside on the perimeter and wait for the game to come to him, rather than make a commitment to utilize his awesome physical tools to make things happen inside.

Part of this has to do with DePaul’s style of play, but it’s not hard to notice the influence of his personality on his game as well, particularly on the defensive end, where he often looks tentative and not quite as active as you might hope. Unfortunately these personality traits--as we’ve too often found out in the past--don’t tend to change once a player becomes a pro. That doesn’t mean that he can’t go on to have a long, productive NBA career, but it very well can lessen his ceiling from being considered to have star potential to “just” projecting as a solid role player—which there is obviously nothing wrong with."

Isles, I know it was just summer league, but I didn't notice him coasting in any on the games. Draft express also made it seem like he was a bad of a perimeter shooter as Balk comming out which totally isn't the case. His mechanice are fine. The defensive end was where he was most affective 2 blks per, and great effort plays.

I also noticed you didn't highlight the part about Depauls style of play being a factor. Don't kow how much you saw him at Depaul, but I saw him play at least 4-5 times last year (I'm a huge BigEast notice my screen name) and Depauls offense is very deliberate. Alot of ball movement, screens and dives to the hoop with no room for one-on-one play. So at times, I guess it can look like he's coasting in that offense. In fact, more times than not, it looks like that team is coasting.

As far as him camping out on the perimeter. I think part of that is due to the lack of ball handling skills he has. Thats the main part of his game he needs to work on. Getting by his man off the dribble.

You make excuses for why Chandler coasts on offense but what about defensively where Draft Express says that "he often looks tentative and not quite as active as you might hope"?

That's the definition of not having a great motor. It doesn't mean that he doesn't make any plays but that he doesn't make as many as he should if he put in the effort.

Do you still want to suggest that it's a "stretch" to say that he doesn't have a great motor?

Hey COS we went 4-3 in Pre-season games last yr that were more meaningful than SL games but played 60gms into the regular season games that count under .500.

Munch on that and digest if you will.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Hey COS we went 4-3 in Pre-season games last yr that were more meaningful than SL games but played 60gms into the regular season games that count under .500.

Munch on that and digest if you will.

Were we talking about a teams record or how individual guys played?
Obviously our team record will be different when only 2-5 guys a year play on both the summer league team and the actual Knicks team

Posted by tkf:

why do you guys fall into islefan constant baiting and ridiculous comments. really what did you think he would say. when I first read the question I knew what he was going to say, hell you could have compared chandler and balkman to Felton spencer and Howard eisley and as long as spencern and eisley were not in knicks uniforms he would have chosen them without any thought.... I know you guys are smarter than that, to even engage this guy in such silly conversation and constant, needless putdown of the knicks, is just mind boggling.....

Isles is no different than his clones. They all seek to put down the Knicks regardless of the thread.

Posted by tkf:

why do you guys fall into islefan constant baiting and ridiculous comments. really what did you think he would say. when I first read the question I knew what he was going to say, hell you could have compared chandler and balkman to Felton spencer and Howard eisley and as long as spencern and eisley were not in knicks uniforms he would have chosen them without any thought.... I know you guys are smarter than that, to even engage this guy in such silly conversation and constant, needless putdown of the knicks, is just mind boggling.....

Yes, it's completely ridiculous to suggest that the #9 pick of the draft will be better than the #23 pick of the draft. And it's just baiting to suggest that the #2 pick of the 2006 draft has a higher ceiling than the #21 pick of that draft.

The constant lack of common sense and needless dismissing of reality in the name of being a Knicks fan, is just mind boggling.

The only thing silly is the suggestion that Noah and Thomas vs Chandler and Balkman is really debatable.

[Edited by - islesfan on 07-27-2007 12:45 PM]

Posted by COSSUCKS:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Hey COS we went 4-3 in Pre-season games last yr that were more meaningful than SL games but played 60gms into the regular season games that count under .500.

Munch on that and digest if you will.

Were we talking about a teams record or how individual guys played?
Obviously our team record will be different when only 2-5 guys a year play on both the summer league team and the actual Knicks team

The point is you can't take hardly anything away from games that don't count and don't have any true structure. As much as has been stated on Nichols and Chandler you'd think they're a lock for the Top 5 rotation. Summer League and Pre-season games are the worst thing that could take place for our fan base. We don't win in the regular season so we put all our stock in these 2 venues.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Marv:

Posted by tkf:

why do you guys fall into islefan constant baiting and ridiculous comments. really what did you think he would say. when I first read the question I knew what he was going to say, hell you could have compared chandler and balkman to Felton spencer and Howard eisley and as long as spencern and eisley were not in knicks uniforms he would have chosen them without any thought.... I know you guys are smarter than that, to even engage this guy in such silly conversation and constant, needless putdown of the knicks, is just mind boggling.....

that's an interesting idea. let's try it.

hey isles! who’d you rather have - felton spencer and howard eisley or renaldo balkman and wilson chandler?

You can't teach height so obviously Spencer would be my choice and Eisley was a solid backup for teams that went to the NBA Finals. Can't beat his experience in those situations. It's certainly more impressive than summer league stats.

Come on Marv, you can do better than that.

felton was one of the few people who flunked height.

Posted by tkf:

why do you guys fall into islefan constant baiting and ridiculous comments. really what did you think he would say. when I first read the question I knew what he was going to say, hell you could have compared chandler and balkman to Felton spencer and Howard eisley and as long as spencern and eisley were not in knicks uniforms he would have chosen them without any thought.... I know you guys are smarter than that, to even engage this guy in such silly conversation and constant, needless putdown of the knicks, is just mind boggling.....

Let's test it then. Isles, who would you rather have: David Lee or Calvin Booth?

Typical question with loaded intent.

Anyway, here's the deal. Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah are #2 (technically #4, but really a #2 with the trade) and #9 picks, respectively. Renaldo Balkman and Wilson Chandler are #20 and #23 picks, respectively. Lottery picks are expected to be better, significantly better. Now, Noah has bust potential, but Chandler has more bust potential than Noah, IMHO. Frankly, I think Noah will be a solid player, and likely be better than Chandler. Chandler is a big question mark, so anything is possible, but to ASSUME Chandler is going to be great (as the lovers assume all Isiah picks will be great) is crazy. It remains a TBD. The odds of Noah being a good player are greater than Chandler, until proven otherwise. Tyrus Thomas vs. Balkman is significantly in favor of Tyrus. I know the Balkman lovers will balk (no pun intended), but Tyrus just has a higher ceiling, period. Tyrus Thomas possesses a lot of skills. Balkman possesses a lot of athleticism and defensive intensity, in his own right, but I think we will see a dip in his efficiency as he gets more minutes; he just plays so hard, that he's going to get tired.

Now, if we want to compare picks and give Isiah praise, why not compare the picks to players taken in surrounding slots? That would be a lot more reasonable than comparing against a high lottery pick and a mid lottery pick with the implication that we won, when Chandler and Noah haven't even played an NBA minute and Balkman isn't getting enough minutes to make a full determination yet.