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Front-Court defense isn't good - Target: Josh Smith
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Ira
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7/16/2007  7:20 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Ira:

The guy I'd target is Josh Childress. He'll come cheaper, give us the size, the smarts and the defensive ability at the two. Josh Smith is going to stay in Atlanta. But Josh Childress may be available - probably not now, but maybe at the trade deadline.

I'm not too crazy about Childress. He's a little soft for my taste...Josh Smith is kinda like Trevor Ariza hopped up on steroids & HGH, which i like.

I agree that Smith is the better player, but Childress is attainable - Smith isn't. Smit is from Atlanta and wants to stay home and Atlanta wants to keep him. Childress would be an upgrade at the 2. He'll address the issue of perimeter defense. He has a decent shot and he plays smart. He's young and still has upside.

[Edited by - TMS on 07-16-2007 4:50 PM]
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Anji
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7/16/2007  7:47 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by fishmike:

Last year I said we should package Nate, Frye and the Chi pick for Josh Smith and I got laughed at. Hows that looking now?

i know for sure a few of us would have made that trade in a heartbeat... people probably had doubts that a package of Nate, Frye & the #23 probably would be enough to get him at that time considering how far Frye's value had dropped & the unknown quantity of a late 1st round pick (though Wilson Chandler seems to be a nice value pick for us right now)


Yep, I agree 100% I was one of those people that agreed with Fish, I've been on Josh Smith for quite some time. Who cares if the guy can't hit 3's. We don't have a SF whose a good 3point shooter right now anyway. I prefer my SFs to slash and play defense which is exactly what Josh does. If we are ever going to upgrade our shooting, it should come through the SG position, not the SF position. To say you wouldn't make this trade because Josh Smith is a 3point shooter is out of this world.


It's not that he can't hit 3's...its that he takes a a lot of em and can't hit em. That hurts the O.

You can't some that. It's like the grass is greener, type of thing. Fish thinks he is on the verge of stardom and many in Atlanta want to strangle him after one his bonehead plays.

Ding, da, Ding-Ding-Ding.

Hell no trading to nate, Frye and 23rd for Josh smith.............. are you high!!!!!!!
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BigSm00th
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7/16/2007  7:50 PM
give balkman 30 minutes a night before contemplating a trade for j-smoooooooooooove
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knicksavvy
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7/16/2007  8:57 PM
Posted by MS:

How ghetto do you want to make this team? Because if you bring this kid on with Randolf it's bound to get ugly, zach by all acounts is a piece of ****, you don't rape women because you were young. I have heard that smith has a similiar entourage to randolfs.

Eddy dumb player, jamal dumb player, marbury dumb player, nate dumb player, smith dumb player, this is not generalizing. You need a few heads out there from time to time.

I love smith and would have moved jamal and frye for him along with nate but I have a hard time moving lee and balkman. Love his shotblocking abilities but smith is a run and gun player we have the slowest frontcourt going right now and a pgs that aren't in control enough to play uptemp ball.

Does my faith show? Go Knicks!!!
PresIke
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7/16/2007  10:48 PM
Posted by tomverve:

Is the cost of acquiring Smith worth the upgrade in defense at SF relative to Balkman? Balk is already a defensive stud there. Blocks shots, steals, and the team is a lot better on D when he's on the floor. Not sure why we would want to pay out the nose for these Josh Smith/Gerald Wallace/AK47/Artest types when Balk is already doing the same things but on a rookie contract. The best solution is to give Balkman more PT and hold on to whatever hefty assets would be needed to get one of those other SFs.

I'm in complete agreement here.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
nixluva
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7/16/2007  11:53 PM
We've got to look at this team in terms of it's make up and how we'll balance things. Steph is already looking to give up shots in order to accomodate Zach and Curry. I think that's why we'll see Q and Jared start, cuz they don't need the ball either. Q is capable of shooting a high % and Jared isn't really looking to shoot. If you have Josh on the floor with Zach and Curry I don't think it works. He won't get the volume of shots he'll need to be effective.

People may be jumping the gun on Balkman. The guy is just getting started. Last year he did a lot with very few minutes. He looks to be more comfortable this year and even tho he's still not confident in his shot, I expect that he'll get better. Isiah will get after him to take shots when he's open. At least he knows how to score in other ways.
TMS
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7/17/2007  12:37 AM
Posted by Ira:

I agree that Smith is the better player, but Childress is attainable - Smith isn't. Smit is from Atlanta and wants to stay home and Atlanta wants to keep him. Childress would be an upgrade at the 2. He'll address the issue of perimeter defense. He has a decent shot and he plays smart. He's young and still has upside.

But at what cost? He's not good enough for me to part w/either D Lee or Balkman, & we still have no idea what we have yet in Chandler or Nichols... if it's in a deal for Jefferies & Nate or something along those lines, i'm fine with that, but ATL won't go for that... for a 13 & 6 per 37 mpg player, i wouldn't be willing to part w/any of our young SF's just yet... for Josh, that's definitely a different story... u know what i'm saying
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Ira
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7/17/2007  4:56 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Ira:

I agree that Smith is the better player, but Childress is attainable - Smith isn't. Smit is from Atlanta and wants to stay home and Atlanta wants to keep him. Childress would be an upgrade at the 2. He'll address the issue of perimeter defense. He has a decent shot and he plays smart. He's young and still has upside.

But at what cost? He's not good enough for me to part w/either D Lee or Balkman, & we still have no idea what we have yet in Chandler or Nichols... if it's in a deal for Jefferies & Nate or something along those lines, i'm fine with that, but ATL won't go for that... for a 13 & 6 per 37 mpg player, i wouldn't be willing to part w/any of our young SF's just yet... for Josh, that's definitely a different story... u know what i'm saying

Good question. How about Craw and Nate for Childress and any contract that balances the trade? I understand how you feel about Josh Smith. I just think there's no chance he's leaving Atlanta.
knicksbabyyeah
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7/17/2007  5:24 AM
Isn't Josh Smith more of a PF then a SF? I'm pretty sure he played numerous games last yr as the pf in a smallish lineup.
knicksbabyyeah
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7/17/2007  5:32 AM
http://www.82games.com/0607/06ATL11C.HTM

I tend to recall reading the Hawks playing better when Smith played pf but I think that was when Joe was injured.
Silverfuel
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7/17/2007  5:38 AM
Posted by tomverve:

And even if you still think Smith is better than Balkman on D, it's clear that the gap isn't huge. Is it worth it to give up one of our best in Lee to get Smith for his defensive presence, when we already have a SF defender whose D is at least close to Smith's, if not the same or better? I think it's clear the answer is no. One piece we definitely do not need is an elite defender at SF because we already have one.
This is very true. I didn't realize how effective Balkman was but a lot of the SF trade talk has to do with how little playing time Balkman will get. It's obvious Q will start at the 3 with Crawford playing the 2 which isn't that great. If we do however trade for an elite 3, we can have a legit front court because Isiah would have to start one of those elite 3's. If Balkman gets to start next to Zach and Eddy, I say no trades.
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nyk4ever
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7/17/2007  8:14 AM
I like Balkman but I really think everyone is overating him. He's a nice player but he's nothing more than a great energy guy that you use off the bench. I'm sorry if some people don't agree with that but I don't think he's going to amount to much more than that.
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nyk4ever
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7/17/2007  8:34 AM
I could be totally wrong about Balkman, but I just don't think he's going to ever be much more than he is.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Bonn1997
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7/17/2007  11:02 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I could be totally wrong about Balkman, but I just don't think he's going to ever be much more than he is.

Unfortunately we don't really know what he is right now because Isiah didn't give him much playing time.
tomverve
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7/17/2007  11:14 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I like Balkman but I really think everyone is overating him. He's a nice player but he's nothing more than a great energy guy that you use off the bench. I'm sorry if some people don't agree with that but I don't think he's going to amount to much more than that.

What, like a Mark Madsen? Balkman is much more than just high energy. He blocks shots. Steals. Great rebounder for a SF. Can handle and pass and a pretty good finisher at the rim.

Guy averaged 15.5 mpg in 68 games. Not a ton of burn, but not Jackie Butler territory. That's enough to say that what he managed to do last season wasn't a fluke.
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COSSUCKS
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7/17/2007  11:14 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I like Balkman but I really think everyone is overating him. He's a nice player but he's nothing more than a great energy guy that you use off the bench. I'm sorry if some people don't agree with that but I don't think he's going to amount to much more than that.

Many teams fans over rate their draft picks after 1 year and then start seeing flaws in the 2nd year
nixluva
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7/17/2007  11:24 AM
Again I must say that for our team it looks like Balkman makes sense. He doesn't need shots or plays run for him and he's still gonna be effective. We have 2 lead players that want a lot of touches and so we have guys like Q who doesn't need a lot of shots, Jared, Lee and Balk don't need a lot of shots. Steph is willing to take fewer shots and Jamal takes a lot, but he doesn't really need to take them since he can also function as a PG. Josh seems to me to desire and need more shots to be effective and certainly to make it worth having him instead of Balkman. If you take the shots away from him, he's likely no more effective than Balk will be.
MS
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7/17/2007  11:40 AM
Balkman is already one of the best open court finishers in the nba and he is doing it without somoene that is getting him the ball most of the time. He also get the ball upcourt as fast as anyone, has more rebounding talent that 90% of all small fowards, is lanky, can blk shots, play passing lanes and has attitude about him which is really rare for this team when that attitude actually translates into something.

If Jefferies starts Isiah proves yet again he is clueless, i don't care how much he improved balkman offsets the lack of energy in the starting lineup. I would even rather have nate be the two guard than jamal because he is our best three point shooter. I think Q will punish 2 guards on the blocks if we play him there from time to time. No way i trade balkman, lee and collins.
BasketballJones
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7/17/2007  11:41 AM
we "overrate" David Lee too. It isn't so much that he and Balkman are elite players in the League, but skilled players with normal-sized egos who can help the team. They're also players that the Knicks have drafted, kept and helped develop (so far) which is a refreshing change.
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MS
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7/17/2007  12:14 PM
i really don't think we do, if you played david lee all night long at the four good things would happen if he was next to curry and vice versa, you put him on the nets or suns he is averaging 15-17pts a night alone with his 10 rebounds. He is just scratching the surface. He went from below 60% on the line to 80% last season. In time his shot will improve he is actually a good person and someone that knows what a priveledge it is to be in the nba you don't trade grounded players.

Knick fan event is a perfect example of reason not to trade for a lot of the guys here. Crawford blew it off two years in a row, eddy was a no show, balkman was a no show, marbury showed up an 1 late, nate was a prick, francis missing in action for the second year in a row, jefferies got up and left in the middle of it, lee stayed late and spent time with the fans........
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Front-Court defense isn't good - Target: Josh Smith
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