Posted by nixluva:

Zach has value and if he has indeed matured and this team wins a lot more games his value will only go up. He's technically at All Star level already. He just needs a prominant presence on a team that is winning. I think that there's little chance of this team not being right in the thick of things in the East. We have the talent in place to compete with any team in the East on a night to night basis. This team will come in with great confidence. They're a year older. They already know the system and I believe many of the guys were motivated to work on their games this summer.

What I'm anticipating is a boost from Zach's presence and with a bit of improved play all the way around from the returning players AND THE COACH! I believe he's gonna be better. Let's remember that Isiah has a lot to learn still as well. He didn't come in with a lot of coaching experience, just some talent for the job. I think he learned a lot from his mistakes last year. I'm not worried about Zach working out. I'd be much more worried about Artest. He's just got too many mental issues. I love his game, but I fear his attitude and ego. He's not a player that can be controlled. He's liable to do and say anything and unlike Steph who is also kind looney, Artest is more liable to say things damaging to team unity if he's not happy. I think we'd get enough out of a guy like G. Wallace, but without the high risk.

Besides we already have young players to develop at the SF spot and none of them seem to be a danger to the team. Why take on 2 risky players in the same offseason? I fear that the move may be too tempting for Isiah to resist.

Would you be against any trade giving up any one of Lee, Balkman, Chandler, or Mardy to get Artest?

Posted by nixluva:

Zach has value and if he has indeed matured and this team wins a lot more games his value will only go up. He's technically at All Star level already. He just needs a prominant presence on a team that is winning. I think that there's little chance of this team not being right in the thick of things in the East. We have the talent in place to compete with any team in the East on a night to night basis. This team will come in with great confidence. They're a year older. They already know the system and I believe many of the guys were motivated to work on their games this summer.

What I'm anticipating is a boost from Zach's presence and with a bit of improved play all the way around from the returning players AND THE COACH! I believe he's gonna be better. Let's remember that Isiah has a lot to learn still as well. He didn't come in with a lot of coaching experience, just some talent for the job. I think he learned a lot from his mistakes last year. I'm not worried about Zach working out. I'd be much more worried about Artest. He's just got too many mental issues. I love his game, but I fear his attitude and ego. He's not a player that can be controlled. He's liable to do and say anything and unlike Steph who is also kind looney, Artest is more liable to say things damaging to team unity if he's not happy. I think we'd get enough out of a guy like G. Wallace, but without the high risk.

Besides we already have young players to develop at the SF spot and none of them seem to be a danger to the team. Why take on 2 risky players in the same offseason? I fear that the move may be too tempting for Isiah to resist.

Why take on 2 risky players in the same offseason? Because Artest brings something to the table that we don't have, perimeter defense. When he is on the court, he is a top player in the game.

With the Randolph trade, there is even more pressure to make the playoffs next season. I know we'll win more games next season, but when you look at the playoff picture in the improving East, I think there is a realistic chance that we don't make the playoffs.

Randolph's value won't increase if that happens and we'll be in worse shape.

Bringing in a guy like Artest, although very risky, improves our chances at being a good team next season, which gives our guys higher trade value.

Posted by djsunyc:

so we need to start winning if we want our guys values to increase. missing the playoffs would mean there needs to be some serious decisions made about the entire team and operation.

not sure missing out on the playoffs again would change anything anymore... i thought things would change after they missed the playoffs last season & Dolan supposedly put a stop to the trading of expirings for albatross contracts... didn't take long for management to switch their stance on that one.

Posted by BasketballJones:

Posted by TMS:

not sure missing out on the playoffs again would change anything anymore... i thought things would change after they missed the playoffs last season & Dolan supposedly put a stop to the trading of expirings for albatross contracts... didn't take long for management to switch their stance on that one.

I think Dolan's stance last year was "Prove to me that you can win more than 23 games with this team." Once Isiah did that, Dolan was more than ever convinced that the previous season's failures were all Larry Brown's fault, and it was back to business as usual.

LOL as usual Jones, witty to a T.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by nixluva:

Zach has value and if he has indeed matured and this team wins a lot more games his value will only go up. He's technically at All Star level already. He just needs a prominant presence on a team that is winning. I think that there's little chance of this team not being right in the thick of things in the East. We have the talent in place to compete with any team in the East on a night to night basis. This team will come in with great confidence. They're a year older. They already know the system and I believe many of the guys were motivated to work on their games this summer.

What I'm anticipating is a boost from Zach's presence and with a bit of improved play all the way around from the returning players AND THE COACH! I believe he's gonna be better. Let's remember that Isiah has a lot to learn still as well. He didn't come in with a lot of coaching experience, just some talent for the job. I think he learned a lot from his mistakes last year. I'm not worried about Zach working out. I'd be much more worried about Artest. He's just got too many mental issues. I love his game, but I fear his attitude and ego. He's not a player that can be controlled. He's liable to do and say anything and unlike Steph who is also kind looney, Artest is more liable to say things damaging to team unity if he's not happy. I think we'd get enough out of a guy like G. Wallace, but without the high risk.

Besides we already have young players to develop at the SF spot and none of them seem to be a danger to the team. Why take on 2 risky players in the same offseason? I fear that the move may be too tempting for Isiah to resist.

Would you be against any trade giving up any one of Lee, Balkman, Chandler, or Mardy to get Artest?

It doesn't even matter what we give up for him. I'm just worried about Artest period. More than Zach's criminal record, I fear Artest cuz he gives me the impression that he's got some mental issues. I don't think there's anyway to reach him and reach any kind of agreement on the idea of sacrificing his own needs for that of the team. I think Zach is aware of how bad his record has been and he's anxious to show he can be a good citizen. Artest doesn't seem to feel he's ever really been wrong, so he's much more of a loose canon. I'm not even saying that Zach is a lock to behave, but having 2 guys like that one being even worse than the other seems like a bit too much.

The only point that some have brought up which makes sense is that Artest doesn't have a long deal. So you can basically test drive it and see how it works. In that case then I can see some rationale for giving it a try, but not for Lee or any of our better prospects. If Sac wants him out so bad, then let them take something like Jared, Morris and Balkman, but that's as far as I go. Perhaps they could switch Nate if they wanted.