Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by BlueSeats:



You sound almost as confident of this deal working out as you were about Steph and Francis flourishing together and the "quick" offense.

Don't worry Blue, they are still going to run the "quick" offense, just with a few new wrinkles, like 2 low post players.

Come on now you know that Zach is more than jsut a low post player and it just so happens that the "quick" offense is not a run and gun offense as so many seem to have thought. He's been using the same offense since his days in indy. Any offense will look different depending upon thhe personnel and a coach will make adjustments and make use of certain parts of his playbook based on what works for his team. He never really changed the sets or anything. All that changed was the execution of the offense. Now perhaps with Zach instead of Frye some of the execute will be better.

Blueseats, as usual is here to make more exaggerations of my statements. It's OK keep on oversimplifying my statements to make your points seem better. Now you want to sum up everything I said months ago, to be as simple as "Steph and Francis are gonna flourish". You're saying I didn't add any qualifying statements. I was just resolute that it would work perfectly no if's and's or but's. It's amazing how often you guys like to do that.

Not to change subjects but Steph struggled early, and later actually played well. It didn't seem that his struggles had anything to do with Francis. Francis had played OK early, but lost his way and reverted to his old ways. For the small amount of time that they actually played together it's hard to know how that would work out. They had some good performances. Just for the record I was mostly speaking about ALL of the Knick guards being able to play in this system, not specifically Steph and Francis. I actually prefer Steph and Jamal over Francis. Really the way isiah's system was supposed to work, it really wouldn't matter how Steph and Francis worked together. The most used primary set initially involved the PG, SF and C on the strong side and the SG and PF on the weak side. If the ball was swung over to Francis on the Weak side he was to effectively become a PG and run a 2 man game with the PF. I believe that will work much better with Zach involved. All of this doesn't matter now, but I find it funny when you guys want to tell me what I said. I know BB as well as you do and I think if we were ever to meet you'd take a totally different attitude with me. I'm not stupid or a flip flop artist like you guys keep trying to paint me.

Posted by nixluva:

Blueseats, as usual is here to make more exaggerations of my statements. It's OK keep on oversimplifying my statements to make your points seem better. Now you want to sum up everything I said months ago, to be as simple as "Steph and Francis are gonna flourish". You're saying I didn't add any qualifying statements. I was just resolute that it would work perfectly no if's and's or but's. It's amazing how often you guys like to do that.

Posted by Ira:

What's my point? It's simple. While there are benefits to being under the cap, those benefits are sometimes overstated. When you have a chance to complete a good deal for a younger player who was just one of only five 20-10 guys in the league, you do it. Passing up on an opportunity like that would have been foolish.

Posted by TheGame:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by nixluva:

Blueseats, as usual is here to make more exaggerations of my statements. It's OK keep on oversimplifying my statements to make your points seem better. Now you want to sum up everything I said months ago, to be as simple as "Steph and Francis are gonna flourish". You're saying I didn't add any qualifying statements. I was just resolute that it would work perfectly no if's and's or but's. It's amazing how often you guys like to do that.

There's no exaggeration 'luva, you were beyond certain that all would work out and you were intolerant of anyone who thought otherwise. And no rational explanation about Marbury and Francis' games not meshing, leadership voids, egos, the health of their knees, their inability to feed the post or lead an uptempo offense, etc, none of that was admissible in your eyes because we'd yet to see them with THIS coach and THIS offense.

You even went so far as to tell us real fans could never possess such doubts and you were gonna HAMMER us when you were proven right.

You were shoveling even more hyperbole then than you are now, but it's early in the off-season, I expect you'll work yourself up again to that fevered pitch as the summer progresses.

In fairness to nixluva, the reason the Marbury/Francis backcourt did not work was not because their games were similar but rather because Francis sucks and has no clue how to play team basketball. If Francis had a higher basketball IQ, I think it could have worked because they were a potent offensive combination. Marbury rose to the challenge and raised his defensive effort and toned down his game to get more people involved. Francis just kept playing his normal way, i.e. terrible, one on one basketball and no defense, which really killed any chance of the backcourt producing more than it gave up on defense.

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by TheGame:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by nixluva:

Blueseats, as usual is here to make more exaggerations of my statements. It's OK keep on oversimplifying my statements to make your points seem better. Now you want to sum up everything I said months ago, to be as simple as "Steph and Francis are gonna flourish". You're saying I didn't add any qualifying statements. I was just resolute that it would work perfectly no if's and's or but's. It's amazing how often you guys like to do that.

There's no exaggeration 'luva, you were beyond certain that all would work out and you were intolerant of anyone who thought otherwise. And no rational explanation about Marbury and Francis' games not meshing, leadership voids, egos, the health of their knees, their inability to feed the post or lead an uptempo offense, etc, none of that was admissible in your eyes because we'd yet to see them with THIS coach and THIS offense.

You even went so far as to tell us real fans could never possess such doubts and you were gonna HAMMER us when you were proven right.

You were shoveling even more hyperbole then than you are now, but it's early in the off-season, I expect you'll work yourself up again to that fevered pitch as the summer progresses.

In fairness to nixluva, the reason the Marbury/Francis backcourt did not work was not because their games were similar but rather because Francis sucks and has no clue how to play team basketball. If Francis had a higher basketball IQ, I think it could have worked because they were a potent offensive combination. Marbury rose to the challenge and raised his defensive effort and toned down his game to get more people involved. Francis just kept playing his normal way, i.e. terrible, one on one basketball and no defense, which really killed any chance of the backcourt producing more than it gave up on defense.

How is that in fairness to, nixluva when those are some of the variables he wouldn't tolerate others accounting for?

Look, I have no problem with nixluva holding whatever views he chooses. He wasn't the only to think it might work out well. Where he overreached was in trying to qualify who's a fan or not based on agreement with his optimism. 'luva thinks everything that possibly can go right will go right, and chooses to disqualify the opinions of those willing to look at both sides of a coin on the grounds that "fans shouldn't do that".

Sorry Game, some of us are simply unwilling to shut down half of our analytical capabilities so that nixluva can sleep at night, or not lose his high, or whatever his problem is with people who have deeper concerns than his.

Posted by TheGame:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by TheGame:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by nixluva:

Blueseats, as usual is here to make more exaggerations of my statements. It's OK keep on oversimplifying my statements to make your points seem better. Now you want to sum up everything I said months ago, to be as simple as "Steph and Francis are gonna flourish". You're saying I didn't add any qualifying statements. I was just resolute that it would work perfectly no if's and's or but's. It's amazing how often you guys like to do that.

There's no exaggeration 'luva, you were beyond certain that all would work out and you were intolerant of anyone who thought otherwise. And no rational explanation about Marbury and Francis' games not meshing, leadership voids, egos, the health of their knees, their inability to feed the post or lead an uptempo offense, etc, none of that was admissible in your eyes because we'd yet to see them with THIS coach and THIS offense.

You even went so far as to tell us real fans could never possess such doubts and you were gonna HAMMER us when you were proven right.

You were shoveling even more hyperbole then than you are now, but it's early in the off-season, I expect you'll work yourself up again to that fevered pitch as the summer progresses.

In fairness to nixluva, the reason the Marbury/Francis backcourt did not work was not because their games were similar but rather because Francis sucks and has no clue how to play team basketball. If Francis had a higher basketball IQ, I think it could have worked because they were a potent offensive combination. Marbury rose to the challenge and raised his defensive effort and toned down his game to get more people involved. Francis just kept playing his normal way, i.e. terrible, one on one basketball and no defense, which really killed any chance of the backcourt producing more than it gave up on defense.

How is that in fairness to, nixluva when those are some of the variables he wouldn't tolerate others accounting for?

Look, I have no problem with nixluva holding whatever views he chooses. He wasn't the only to think it might work out well. Where he overreached was in trying to qualify who's a fan or not based on agreement with his optimism. 'luva thinks everything that possibly can go right will go right, and chooses to disqualify the opinions of those willing to look at both sides of a coin on the grounds that "fans shouldn't do that".

Sorry Game, some of us are simply unwilling to shut down half of our analytical capabilities so that nixluva can sleep at night, or not lose his high, or whatever his problem is with people who have deeper concerns than his.

Hey, I don't condone calling people non fans simply because they disagree that a move is going to work out. I too thought the move had problems but after watching it for a season, I think it might have worked if Francis was more of a team player and understood how to use his skills to create opportunities for others. I don't think alot of us realized exactly how bad Francis was as a basketball player when it came to team offense until we actually witnessed it for ourselves.

Posted by Panos:

Posted by kam77:

Haha... at least I cite. What have you contributed? While we're at it, let me contribute the names Trevor Ariza and Mike Sweetney who both had their value go up.

Ok, how about value going down:
Francis (considered buying out, negotiations failed)
Frye (#8 pick wasted)
TT (ended up being trade filler, and subsequently bought out)
MoT (bought out=no value)
Jalen (bought out=no value)
Penny (didn't play at all his last year here)
JJ1 (hasn't justified his ridiculous contract)
JJ2 (looks much worse than he did in Wash)

Oh, and for the record,
KT and Sweetney were not Isiah guys.
If you wanted to talk about value going up, you should have mentioned Curry and Lee instead.