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The Real Problem with the Trade (Lee vs. Zach)
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Pharzeone
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7/4/2007  1:37 PM
Posted by Michael6835:

Last I checked, Lee got his minutes. He was just like Jamal, he always finished games. People here always got hung up on the fact that he didn't start, so what. Balkman received more minutes than anyone initially thought. Why? Because he played his but off combined with Jeffries having a below avg season. Jerome James rarely played (he makes big dollars) and Rose only played toward then end because of injuries.

Bottom Line is Lee will still get his minutes subbing for Randolph and Curry. So I don't see the problem, Curry sits and Lee comes in, Randolph sits and Curry comes in. Then Lee gets his rest, Subbing for both players will give Lee about 30 mpg.

I guess Bonn wanted him to play 48 minutes. I guess let him take a breather on his day off.
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Bonn1997
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7/4/2007  5:02 PM
Our best player should have gotten more than 29.8 mpg.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 07-04-2007 5:03 PM]
Cash
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7/4/2007  7:24 PM
I don't see any problem with Lee getting at least 30 minutes if not 35 minutes a game this season.

Of Course, Zach is Isiah's new acquisition, and also our most talented big man so he is going to get his 35 minutes(this leaves 13 minutes for lee)

However, Curry is yesterday's mistake for Isiah. The bulls already drafted both lottery picks we gave up for him. Curry already had his season where he played the most minutes in his career and put up the most ppg. Isiah can switch from justifying that horrible trade to pushing his new acquisition. Furthermore, this year, when we already have a post presence in Zach, Isiah is going to opt to replace Curry with Lee. Curry is not going to be seeing 35 minutes a game while averaging only 14 points a game(b/c he is deferring to Zach) and only 1 rebound every 5 minutes. Curry is going to see 25-30 minutes a game. Because he has basically been replaced by Zach, he is not going to be treated like a baby like he was last year. Curry is going to play defense or he is going to sit because this year we have a post player that can actually pass out of the post and Lee does everything besides post play better than Curry. So Lee gets 18-23 behing Curry.

13+18=31 minutes a game at least. Lee should also see some time at small forward.
kam77
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7/5/2007  3:09 PM
Is this the REAL problem or the Real problem?
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
RemBee76
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7/6/2007  9:00 AM
Thanks for keeping it real Kamiar.

Anyone who thinks Lee is going to get his minutes because Curry is going to go down to 25 hasn't been paying attention. For better or for worse, Isiah is going to give the Curry-Randolph pairing at least as much time to work together as he gave the Marbury-Franchise pairing. And if it doesn't work out? Curry gets shopped.

But expect Randolph and Curry to combine for about 75mpg. Plus, depending on match-ups, a line-up with Randolph at Center and Lee at PF isn't always going to work. I wouldn't be surprised if we see Morris and James combine for 10-15 for the year. So with Lee getting solid minutes at PF (in and of itself a doubtful proposition as we are a bit jammed there with Jeffries, Balkman, Q-Rich and now Chandler) David lee is looking at no more than 20-25 minutes.

Now, how to evaluate a trade that gets our MVP even fewer minutes on the court....hmmmm.

Hey, Misterearl! whatacha gotta say ta dat?

BTW Answerman, Nagel and Flinter are back with the old crew. We're waiting on djsunyc, tomverve, bigbeast and kby, but everyone is coming back together.

Check it out sometime.
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
RemBee76
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7/6/2007  9:04 AM
Oh, and did I forget to mention ex.regis and nyknicks12?
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
misterearl
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7/6/2007  2:07 PM
rembee - all I gotta say is dat ain't NOTHIN' wrong with healthy competition for minutes. I have feeling the individual offseason workouts just got racheted up a notch.

the fact that two year vet Nate is on the Summer League roster is a clue that some extra work is being done. could it be that Isiah has put everyone on notice?

17 - 5 = 12 active spots


hold up, where is the former NYT crew hanging out?

once a knick always a knick
Cash
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7/6/2007  2:25 PM
Anyone that thinks that Curry is going to be upping his workouts this offseason because of the competition is more than a little naive.

Additionally the Curry/Randolph situation is completely distinguishable from the Marbury/Francis situation. Francis got a lot of time at the 2 with marbury because we really don't have anyone all that great to replace Francis with. IF you think Jamal Crawford doesn't have huge deficiencies in his game, I don't know what to tell you.

Furthermore, once you have a post player in Randolph who is going to demand the ball in the game, there is no reason to complement him with a one-dimensional player who is only competent when he has the ball in his hands. Lee is a far superior rebounder, passer, finisher, ft shooter, and just much more effective overall without the ball than Curry.

Now, a defense of Curry and Randolph(or lee/Zach) really isn't much to talk about. Of course there are going to be some matchups that are going to require a jerome james, malik rose, or someone else for a few minutes. However, those minutes are going to come at the expense of Curry.

Now in spite of what I said, Isiah Thomas might try to shove Randolph/Curry down this teams throats at least for the first few games. But it is not going to work particularly well. Fans will go crazy if it continues at the expense of Lee, which is one of the main reasons why after a few games Lee will be seeing a solid 35 minutes a game.
MS
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7/6/2007  2:28 PM
Yea i bet james and curry are really getting into shape, jamal is in the weight room getting stronger, zach is slimming down.....

We have a ton of guys really working their ass off, because guys with 5 year deals should be worried

And nate really seems to care about winning, when he is celebrating during losses and starring down opposing teams after we get waxed because he dunked it
misterearl
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7/6/2007  2:47 PM
Cash - so why not simply run Lee at center?

If 6'9 Dave Cowens was good enough for the Boston freakin' Celtics...
once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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7/6/2007  2:49 PM
MS - do you really resent Knicks players that much for their salaries?
once a knick always a knick
Ira
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7/6/2007  3:03 PM
Actually, Curry worked very hard last off-season and Zach has always worked out hard.
Bonn1997
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11/23/2007  11:37 PM
Posted by misterearl:

MS - How can there be a problem with healthy competition at the power forward position?

best five play

When do we get to see this "healthy competition" for the PF spot?
holfresh
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11/24/2007  12:57 AM
Posted by MS:

Give David Lee 38 minutes on the floor your looking at:

14pts 12rbs 3ass 60%

Give Zach Randolf 38 minutes with the Knicks your looking at:

16pts 10rbs 2ass 47%

And your taking an impact free agent out of play, the guy had microfracture surgery, countless runins with the law. This is a typical Isiah move, yes we get better but only if curry is playing 30 minutes a night and randolf 35. Which means your leaving 33 minutes for lee. However Isiah is going to want to work in morris, so lee's minutes will decrease.

Lee's defense isn't as bad as some think either, just because Isiah doesn't know how to coach and played him against, Gerald Wallace, Josh Smith and other sf doesn't mean he can't guard the 4.

ZBO 1286 fga in 68 games
EC 1016 fga in 81 games

Everyone knows two of the biggest areas of concerns

Two headed monster
EC 0.8ass 3.64tos .49blks
ZR 2.2ass 3.16tos .2 blks

3.0ass 6.8tos .69blks (most disgraceful stat in the history of the league)

And we know full well by Isiah's comments about defense he is just a fool, a liar, whatever. But if he is expecting the guards to guard the three and do a better job, i ask how if crawford and nate are in the rotation. Each have zero desire to win, because they rarely give it up on d. And both are more than capable.

Next he is going to play Z and C at the same time and won't reduce curry to maximize his effectiveness.

And two players that will not see the minutes they need are balkman, and collins our two best defenders and one of the main reasons the team rarely got blown out during their 3-14 stretch.

Isiah thinks he is smarter than everyone, a big reason for not drafting the best shooter when he fell into his lap and taking Balkmans brother without the motor. As if we need another player at the sf position.

Most Important Question: Who does this trade make us better than?

The Bucks? They were more injured than us, get back simmons and a healthy frontline to go with knick killer mo williams

The Bobcats? No......We one 1/3 against them and they just added another explosive scorer and the knicks couldn't handle felton or wallace how do we check Richardson, we always get killed against quick teams, so right now we are even at best

The Hawks? Perhaps but they still have some dollars to spend and they did get a lot better and their two top players are better than our top players at the moment

Right now I can say we are better than Indy, Boston? But, be honest and as of this moment I think Orlando is a team we can jump ahead of, and I believe Washington will not be able to handle us down low, but head to heads might not get us in before them?

ZAck Randolph is curently averaging:

34.4 mins 17.6 pts 13.2 rebs 1.3 asst... Are we saying his numbers would go down with more mins?

TMS
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11/24/2007  1:24 AM
Posted by holfresh:
ZAck Randolph is curently averaging:

34.4 mins 17.6 pts 13.2 rebs 1.3 asst... Are we saying his numbers would go down with more mins?


you forgot the part about him averaging 18 shot attempts a game at 41% shooting... for a supposed dominant low post player, those #'s are pretty bad IMO... contrast his shooting % to Curry's 60% & D Lee's 50% shooting... we got this guy because he would supposedly shore up our offensive efficiency & down low dominance, but so far he's done anything but... he's a low % shooting rebounding F that commits way too many T/O's.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
holfresh
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11/24/2007  1:43 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by holfresh:
ZAck Randolph is curently averaging:

34.4 mins 17.6 pts 13.2 rebs 1.3 asst... Are we saying his numbers would go down with more mins?


you forgot the part about him averaging 18 shot attempts a game at 41% shooting... for a supposed dominant low post player, those #'s are pretty bad IMO... contrast his shooting % to Curry's 60% & D Lee's 50% shooting... we got this guy because he would supposedly shore up our offensive efficiency & down low dominance, but so far he's done anything but... he's a low % shooting rebounding F that commits way too many T/O's.

Don't we have a very good three man frontline with Curry, Zak and Lee...Why is there a problem?...The problem is the rest of the team...
TMS
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11/24/2007  1:48 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by holfresh:
ZAck Randolph is curently averaging:

34.4 mins 17.6 pts 13.2 rebs 1.3 asst... Are we saying his numbers would go down with more mins?


you forgot the part about him averaging 18 shot attempts a game at 41% shooting... for a supposed dominant low post player, those #'s are pretty bad IMO... contrast his shooting % to Curry's 60% & D Lee's 50% shooting... we got this guy because he would supposedly shore up our offensive efficiency & down low dominance, but so far he's done anything but... he's a low % shooting rebounding F that commits way too many T/O's.

Don't we have a very good three man frontline with Curry, Zak and Lee...Why is there a problem?...The problem is the rest of the team...


the problem is our need was not in low post offense or rebounding, it was in shotblocking & low post defense, 2 things that Zach doesn't provide... the problem is that we ended up taking on yet another longterm big money contract to fill a need that didn't need to be filled & forgot to address the ones that we desperately needed to fill... if u don't see a problem with that, i don't know what else to say.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
holfresh
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11/24/2007  1:50 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by holfresh:
ZAck Randolph is curently averaging:

34.4 mins 17.6 pts 13.2 rebs 1.3 asst... Are we saying his numbers would go down with more mins?


you forgot the part about him averaging 18 shot attempts a game at 41% shooting... for a supposed dominant low post player, those #'s are pretty bad IMO... contrast his shooting % to Curry's 60% & D Lee's 50% shooting... we got this guy because he would supposedly shore up our offensive efficiency & down low dominance, but so far he's done anything but... he's a low % shooting rebounding F that commits way too many T/O's.

Don't we have a very good three man frontline with Curry, Zak and Lee...Why is there a problem?...The problem is the rest of the team...


the problem is our need was not in low post offense or rebounding, it was in shotblocking & low post defense, 2 things that Zach doesn't provide... the problem is that we ended up taking on yet another longterm big money contract to fill a need that didn't need to be filled & forgot to address the ones that we desperately needed to fill... if u don't see a problem with that, i don't know what else to say.

And DLee is a shotblocker and low post defender?
TMS
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11/24/2007  1:54 AM
Posted by holfresh:
And DLee is a shotblocker and low post defender?



do you understand the words that are coming out of my moooouth?

we didn't NEED a low post scorer & rebounder... we already HAD them in Curry & D Lee... we needed a shotblocker & low post defender... really not all that difficult a concept to grasp.

Zach's making a boatload of money to do things for this team that we didn't need to be addressed... get it now?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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11/24/2007  1:56 AM
u wanna make some sense of the Zach trade? then trade Curry or D Lee to bring in a shotblocker/low post defender or franchise player that can complement Zach's game... that's what you call moves to address a need.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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