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Here is a picture of Sweetney skying over the rim
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BRIGGS
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5/7/2003  7:53 PM
You are just going off reports from NBAdraft net. I think thats a problem with many peoples opinions.Sweetney IS quick for his size--Ive seen him play atleast 20 times in my life. You *really* think the Knicks are going to take a foreign project at pick9? And like I said-hyping someone is EZ. Zach randolph is not an explosive player--but hes a great skill player with greta strength to his body. I said these guys like baby Shaq will have to go up against sweetney in draft camps. Sweetney is used to double triple teams has played against guys from the Wizards in the summer--Okafor, Troy Murphy and a bunch of solid Div 1 players over 3 years. When you go 1-1 that will seperate the men from the boys. Jahidi white is explosive, is 6-9 290 and also stinks. the only legit piece that I believe came from rivals on baby shaq which said he cant shoot has no fundamentals cant play defense and is more ready for WWf than NBA. so when he gets to the statesand has to play aginst the likes of the Sweetneys and the Collisons he will get shown up BADLY.
RIP Crushalot😞
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tkf
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5/7/2003  9:05 PM
Briggs: first of all you laugh at the comparisons of Sweetney and Othella yet you now compare sweetney to Barkley!!! LOL. come on man, Barkley was a Great Athlete, could dribble, explosive and can move like a guard, Brand has a low post game, can jump and runs the floor as well as anyone, Ben wallace is a freak, can jump,quickly, run and is explosive, this is what allows these undersized players to be good if not great, sweetney does not have these attributes!! So comparing him to these guys are ridiculous... As far as Guards being undersized, is not as bad they play outsize, plus again how many 6'0 players in the league are as good as iverson? none and you know why? Iverson has tremendous speed and shot making ability, the key is when you are undersized you better be above average well above average in other areas.

Sweetney isn't, and neither is Othella or Spoon or danny fortson, that is why sweetney's new name is Othella #2....!!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
BRIGGS
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5/7/2003  11:09 PM
My point is just because you are supposedly undersized doesnt mean you arent going to be a very solid NBA player..the only two guys I would compare sweetney to is Brand and Zach Randolph. I think he is somewhere in between. Ive never heard anyone associated with serious basketball knowledge compare the two other than they went to the same school. Try going to a Georgetown board and asking the actual fans about the comparison and you will get your answer. the Knicks need a great deal of things. I said this and I believe it that the first option the Knicks will try todo is trade up to get kaman. Secondly, they will look to trade the pick foryounger players i.e Thomas Ward#9 for Brad Miller and Harrington--something of that ilk.
Third i think they will take the BEST post player available because there isno quality player at the 3 spot worthy of the 9 pick. Mike Sweetney is a much more powerful player than Nick Collison and was more dominant that Nick despite being 2 years younger. Sweetney is a better player than collison. After that the tier drops off the table. Then you are getting into David West Mario austin etc..and that is a full tier below. the Knicks ARE not going to draft a project. they are not going to draft Pavel or Baby shaq--understand it froma business perspective--they want to win NOW.If options 1-2 dont occur--you want the player who will atleast bring a solid impact to the team. Sweetney can do that, if he is gone Im sure Nick Collison would be next on the list. There are literally hundreds of players in major CBB--only 2 averaged 20-10 and 3 blocks--chris kaman and Mike Sweetney. If he is undersized--why was he top 10 nationally in block shots?-- how did he block 3.5 shots a game in the Big East?

Ill just compare Okafors number
Oak 16 points 11 rebounds 4.7 blocks
Sweetney 23 points 10.5 rebounds 3.5 blocks

What you want at 9 is a high qulaity pick--you dont want to reach for a project that high--we already have 13 guaranteed contracts and 2 second round picks.
RIP Crushalot😞
tkf
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5/7/2003  11:33 PM
Briggs: I will give you another number. Sweetneys team played in the NIT, Okafors team was in the NCAA sweet 16!!

Okafor has a game that translate well into the pros, he is a great leaper, great shot blocker and intimidator. His offensive game is improving and his team played a top notch schedule. Look man I am not knocking sweetney or Kaman but if the knicks pick either at 9, I am going to punch a wall, I am tired of these so called safe players, you say sweetney is better than collison but again look beyond stats, collison plays big in big games, he has a solid low post game, and great hands, is very good fundamentally that translate well into the pros, I have seen enough of sweetney to know that he can score and block shots like hell and still dissapear in games, now explain that!!! And again stop letting stats fool you. Kurt Thomas almost averaged 2 block a game and we all know that KT is far from a shot blocker.... And if you ask any Georgtown fan about comparing Othella and sweetney now of course they would not agree especially after seeing Othella 6 years in the pros but if they both were in college today the similarites are almost glaring....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
BigSm00th
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5/8/2003  12:23 AM
"Briggs: I will give you another number. Sweetneys team played in the NIT, Okafors team was in the NCAA sweet 16!!"-Fair point, but UCONN has a lot of good players. Their backcourt was very good and the frontline was solid. Sweetney didn't have much. It's safe to say that both Taliek Brown and Ben Gordon will be in the NBA one day and nobody from the GTown squad will.

"have seen enough of sweetney to know that he can score and block shots like hell and still dissapear in games"-I don't really think this will matter. I realized that too, in the Big East tourny there were spurts when he wouldn't do much, but on a team with great 3 point shooting, a good fast break, and Houston and Sprewell, if Sweetney disapperas it's not going to kill them.

I like tkf and Briggs' analysis. He's a good player to get at 9, a very safe pick but a guy who's going to get 15-20 points and 8-12 rebounds in a few years and become a pretty solid player. Briggs is right, the Knicks need guys who will contribute NOW, and tkf is right in saying that he's tired of safe players/safe moves being made. Let's see what happens.
#Knickstaps
tkf
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5/8/2003  12:49 AM
Bigsmooth: you make a good point on how the knicks will pick a player to win now, and that bothers me, but lets be honest, this draft is deep enough to get a safe player almost anywhere in the first round, the knicks are in a position where they need a young player with star potential, I mean 15 points and 8 boards is what we are getting from KT, that is good but not good enough. I am willing to take a step back to take two steps forward and we can do this by drafting a HS or young prospect or even trading the pick and a player for a YOUNG player and a later pick. I mean there are many scenarios but to settle for a guy like sweetney which we have similar players too is almost wasting a pick, I think sweetney will be good but not an Elton Brand, and with a lottery pick if you are the knicks you have to get more...

But again we will see come draft day. Hell if we get a top 3, sweetney will be out of the picture anyway..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
rain
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5/9/2003  2:53 PM
TKF. I agree. To compare Sweetney to Okafor is unreal. Okafor's game will translate. I would like Sweetney's game if he had some explosion. He doesn't. Kaman is different. He produced in big games and has size/athleticism a position of need. It seems like he's a hard worker but I haven't really seen enough of him to know if his game will continue to improve or he'll hit a ceiling.
Swishfm3
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5/9/2003  3:50 PM
What BIG games did Kaman produce in??? (please don't say Duke or Creighton)...
rain
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5/9/2003  4:39 PM
Yes those two. I just said it. Those weren't big games? I don't know why I'm even answering this actually because its not even a debate really. The NCAA tournament, two high quality teams... not the NIT, where the also rans go to play.
fishmike
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1/18/2005  2:48 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

This guy is a *SKILL* player who is extremely powerful around the rim and plays much bigger than 6-8. NO ONE could stop him in college---he faced double and triple teams every single night---he AVERAGED 23 points 10.5 rebounds and 3.5 blocks while shooting 56%. This guy has what the Knicks dont have POWER--the ability to go through other players with force. The ability to force his will on post moves and has the Ben wallace type of wingspan and power on defense. I mean a lot ofpeole are missing the FACT that the guy is top 10 in SHOTBLOCKING in the NCAA in the BE.

http://www.guhoyas.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/040103aaa_1.html

Look how high this guy is off the ground--powering a dunk through someone else. This is a serious player. This is a true POTENTIAL franchise type player at the 4 who will give you effeciency and maximumefort on both ends.
sounds good to me :)
I think he's monster too and if we would ever trade KT for a hot dog girl with a nice rack I think Sweetney would remind people of the kind of player he was in school.

If we are going to keep our #1s (much less actually build a team through the draft) can we be a *little* patient with the players we get. There are some tremendous players that just needed a year or two or three to really blossum.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
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1/18/2005  2:53 PM
skying over the rim? he looks like he's barely over it...i don't ever see Sweetney skying over anything unless it's a bacon double cheese with large fries.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
teslawlo
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1/18/2005  2:58 PM
LMAO nice job pulling this old thread
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fishmike
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1/18/2005  2:59 PM
Briggs.. I also meant to agree with one of your other points

We are notgoing to failor get burned from that typeofpick--on the contrary I beleive he will be a 20-10 player within 2-3 years tops.
Sounds about right...

This is not about being right and wrong. I consider Briggs the MVP (most valueable poster) because his ideas generate the best conversation and he's not hung up on whos right or whos wrong.

Curry is supposed to be one of the strongest young bigs in the NBA, yet Sweetney pushed him around. Chandler is one of the longest young bigs, yet Sweetney was at the line shooting FTs. This isnt one good game I am harping about... we have seen this young man get better and perform against all types of players.

I'm not holding on for Sweetney to save my franchise, only for people to recognize that some young players take longer than others and the 70-whatever Sweetney has played have shown he will be a hell of a player but still has a lot to work on.

Same with Ariza.. and I hope we can draft another guy this year with our #1 thats as good as these two.

Teams that draft well dont just go poof and become great franchises with young cores. Everyone of them took time.

our GM is getting us younger. our GM drafts well. Maybe we can be a little more patient than one year?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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1/18/2005  4:07 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Briggs.. I also meant to agree with one of your other points

We are notgoing to failor get burned from that typeofpick--on the contrary I beleive he will be a 20-10 player within 2-3 years tops.
Sounds about right...

This is not about being right and wrong. I consider Briggs the MVP (most valueable poster) because his ideas generate the best conversation and he's not hung up on whos right or whos wrong.

Curry is supposed to be one of the strongest young bigs in the NBA, yet Sweetney pushed him around. Chandler is one of the longest young bigs, yet Sweetney was at the line shooting FTs. This isnt one good game I am harping about... we have seen this young man get better and perform against all types of players.

I'm not holding on for Sweetney to save my franchise, only for people to recognize that some young players take longer than others and the 70-whatever Sweetney has played have shown he will be a hell of a player but still has a lot to work on.

Same with Ariza.. and I hope we can draft another guy this year with our #1 thats as good as these two.

Teams that draft well dont just go poof and become great franchises with young cores. Everyone of them took time.

our GM is getting us younger. our GM drafts well. Maybe we can be a little more patient than one year?



I think @ pick 9, we got the best player left on the board. Thats all you can ask for in a draft. I'd like to let Mike start and play 40 minutes, but for some reason we don't do it. I never said I dislike Mike, on the contrary, he's one of our best assets. Would I trade him for a 6-11 C like Eddie Curry or Kwame Brown? Yes I would, but before I do anything I would like to give Mike FULL opportunity to play 40 minutes. Why don't we do that? Is KT that good? NO!!!!!!!
RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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1/18/2005  4:36 PM
I hear you.. I would still rather use $$$ for a guys like Kwame or Curry, rather than give up good young players. That been my only point. That and we need to be patient with young players.

I agree with you on KT, but especially if your looking to move KT this offseason it makes sense to play him, even if it retards your team. Why hurt the value of an asset you know your to hawk in 4 months?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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1/18/2005  4:42 PM
what I want to avoid is looking for the pefect prospect. Rather than keep making trades I would rather just keep adding young players. I'm sure there will be a good center prospect for us, there always is. If it means waiting a year for a guy lke Krstic so be it. you can build a core of young players if your trading your young guys for other young guys year after year.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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Here is a picture of Sweetney skying over the rim
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