Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Vmart:

Reasons why Chicago will not persue Bryant. The Bulls are a winning team they are only getting better and better. They are taking a chance on getting rid of Deng, Gordon and Thomas and the number 9 pick for Bryant. Which leaves Bryant basically shaking his head because the situation the trade creates is worse than the Lakers situation. Your starting lineup is get this. PJ Brown, Wallace, Nocioni, Hinrich and Kobe people that is a ****ty starting 5 because Wallace is absolute waste of timeon offense, Brown is a over the hill FA, Hinrich isn't as good as what Kobe had as a side kick in LA in Odoms. Bulls get scared off from the deal because Deng is involved and the playoffs showed just how good a talent he is. The Bulls think hard about what they need and realize that what they need is a scoring PF to compliment Wallace's lack of scoring ability not Kobe. After seeing what the Cavs did in the east they realize they are not that far away from getting to the championship stage just a scoring pf away not Kobe. The deal for them to make is look to add Zack Randolph to their current team which they can get for Ty Thomas and the #9 pick and probably some filler player like Duhon.

Reason why Suns won't get Kobe, Lakers are in the West and so are the Suns the last thing the Lakers need is to create a senario where they see Kobe more than they need to. D'Antoni said they wouldn't trade Kobe to the Suns even if the Suns included the Grand Canyon in the deal I think he knows that is not going to happen. Same with the Mavs. I don't think they have anything that the Lakers want maybe Dirk thats about it but that not gonna happen for the same reasons as Suns reason.

Knicks now here is a team that can take chances because they really have nothing to lose but to get better by making the deal. Contrary to what most think on the board I think the Knicks have the most to offer the Lakers and probaly the best talent to give the Lakers and basically set the Lakers up for a decade with an abundance of talented players. What makes the Knicks situation better than most teams is get this you can thank Isiah for this if you guys want maybe not but he has created excess at almost all the positions and believe it or not they are talented players. Even if the Knicks give up 3-4 or 5 players for Kobe it is still a deep team. remember the KNicks are the only team on the list that can take chances because they didn't make the playoffs and others are playing with messing up with the good thing they got going. All the Knicks have to do is come up with a package, Crawford, Frye, Lee number 23 pick and a future number 1 protected or unprotected it doesn't matter I think the Knicks can dodge the bullet again but this time they know what they are getting. Now what is the starting lineup for the Knicks if this does happen lets pretend it does:

Jefferies/Balkman/Rose pf
Q-Rich/Jefferies/Balkman sf
Curry/JJ/Morris c
Kobe/Francis/Nate
Marbury/Mardy/Nate

That is a solid team and probaly wins a lot of games. Playoffs are alomost a lock barring injuries and championships dreams will float through our heads.

Isiah has to make this happen if this Kobe drama is for real. If it isn't atleast its giving us dreams, you can thank Kobe for that. But I would rather thank Kobe by buying a Kobe 24 uniform in NYK orange and blue.

The Bulls have to trade Deng, Gordon, Thomas AND the #9 overall pick but the Knicks can get the deal done with Crawford, Frye, Lee, #23 overall and a future #1???

Seriously, is objectivity even possible from some Knicks fans?

Unfortunately in the NBA you have to match salaries and for the Bulls those players don't match Kobe's salary. Thats why they have to give up more they are in a situation where they actually have to give up more players to get Kobe where as the Knicks with Crawford and his salary help cover the cost better. Taking that into consideration you think Kobe will want to go to the Bulls he will be going to a rebuilding situation similar to the Lakers. Also if you were the Bulls and knew you had to match salaries and it cost them their best players do you make the deal or just say no and stay the course. I think the Bulls will just say no and enjoy what they have going. As for the package of Crawford, Lee, Frye 23 pick and future number 1 thats a fair package because it come closer to Kobe's salary, also the Bulls are the ones that will turn down the Lakers not the other way around. Unless a multiple team trade seario is reached.

Isles you really need to get your head on straight with this. If you're LA you will take as much from the Bulls as you can get, because they have it. If Chi wants to get involved they're gonna have to pony up to get the deal done. The more talent a team has the more LA is gonna want from that team. Now many of us don't believe that Chi will want to do a deal under those circumstances, which will leave LA with NY as the next trading partner and they'll have to take a step down in terms of talent. That's just the way it goes. It's like when players want to join the Yankees, they're gonna ask for more than they would from some other team that doesn't have the same amount of money. When you go to the second or third best option you will get less.

Now the Knicks can sweeten the deal with more young players or picks. Perhaps we could absorb some salary for them by taking on a player they don't want with a longer contract than Francis or Malik. It would be a different kind of deal with more quantity than quality. That doesn't mean it's not a good deal, just that all the value won't be in just 2 players. The value would be spread across our entire package.

Posted by nixluva:

Isles you really need to get your head on straight with this. If you're LA you will take as much from the Bulls as you can get, because they have it. If Chi wants to get involved they're gonna have to pony up to get the deal done. The more talent a team has the more LA is gonna want from that team. Now many of us don't believe that Chi will want to do a deal under those circumstances, which will leave LA with NY as the next trading partner and they'll have to take a step down in terms of talent. That's just the way it goes. It's like when players want to join the Yankees, they're gonna ask for more than they would from some other team that doesn't have the same amount of money. When you go to the second or third best option you will get less.

Now the Knicks can sweeten the deal with more young players or picks. Perhaps we could absorb some salary for them by taking on a player they don't want with a longer contract than Francis or Malik. It would be a different kind of deal with more quantity than quality. That doesn't mean it's not a good deal, just that all the value won't be in just 2 players. The value would be spread across our entire package.

Well said, nixluva. there is no way I could have made that point so clear and concise.

Posted by islesfan:

The Bulls are under the cap

not if they resign Nocioni.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by nixluva:

Isles you really need to get your head on straight with this. If you're LA you will take as much from the Bulls as you can get, because they have it. If Chi wants to get involved they're gonna have to pony up to get the deal done. The more talent a team has the more LA is gonna want from that team. Now many of us don't believe that Chi will want to do a deal under those circumstances, which will leave LA with NY as the next trading partner and they'll have to take a step down in terms of talent. That's just the way it goes. It's like when players want to join the Yankees, they're gonna ask for more than they would from some other team that doesn't have the same amount of money. When you go to the second or third best option you will get less.

Now the Knicks can sweeten the deal with more young players or picks. Perhaps we could absorb some salary for them by taking on a player they don't want with a longer contract than Francis or Malik. It would be a different kind of deal with more quantity than quality. That doesn't mean it's not a good deal, just that all the value won't be in just 2 players. The value would be spread across our entire package.

Wait, so the Lakers are going to piss off their best chance to get something remotely close to fair value for Kobe, by asking for much more than they can get from the Knicks, and then settle for the Knicks low ball offer instead of lowering their demands to the Bulls?

Where do you come up with this BS?

Its not a low ball offer it is what it is because salaries have to match. The Knicks might sweeten the offer by giving an expiring contract like Malik Rose and take back long term contracts of the Lakers in return. Whose to say they don't add another future pick in the mix. reguardless the Bulls will turn the Lakers down. Because they like their team the way it is.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by islesfan:

The Bulls are under the cap

not if they resign Nocioni.

trade exemption

Please explain? I'm not sure what you mean. What's the exemption for?

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by 4949:

If the Knicks don't make the move, chicago just might!

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/sports/ladewski/433519,191LAD1.article

Kobe would have to waive a no-trade clause in his contract before he could be moved, which he apparently would agree to do if the Bulls, Dallas Mavericks, New York Knicks or Phoenix Suns are the destination. Forget the Mavericks and the Suns -- they're in the same conference as the Lakers -- and the Knicks have no players of any great value.

Obviously just another hater filled with venom.

But you see the point? There's word going around Chicago, the same word I been pushing, if this guy becomes available. This writer is suggesting that Pax get this to upper management and start pushing for it. We have some players, yes, but we also have the power of buyout, if it comes to that. This article talks about the return, the value of acquiring him. I'm looking at the facts, not the idiocy of this writer. The facts are the same.

What many of us are saying is that Chi can put together the better offer, but will they?

It doesn't make sense for them to do that and still end up with a team that can't win a title. All of Chi talent is tied up in the very players they'd have to trade and then there's a steep fall off. We can actually give away a lot of our young talent and still we'd have enough talent to put a winning team on the floor around Kobe. We may not have the highest quality but we have good quantity of talent. Especially if you have Kobe at the heart of it.

You make some interesting points. With the bulls, it's about risking losing a long term future vs. instant entertainment (because that's all they'll have when they lose they're core) and then some.

With the Knicks, it's about already being in major doo doo debt and having an opportunity to bring instant credibility back to the franchise, not to mention increasing Dolan return for having such a super star. Dolan will' make a great deal of his money back with Kobe in town. From a debt point of view and nothing to show for it, we need this deal more than the bulls. The plus side is, we will still' have some good pieces to be pretty good, a definate playoff team, with a chance to move up some and because (this is key) of Kobe bringing instant respect back to the Knicks, Dolan will be in a much, much better money position to build some serious pieces around Kobe for the following season. Thomas would just have to play it smart. This is our golden opportunity and we should go for it all now. Like the writer said 'Kobe is in his prime'. These are his best years. We should grab him if he becomes available and every fan should let that be known.


[Edited by - 4949 on 06-19-2007 11:56 PM]

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by 4949:

If the Knicks don't make the move, chicago just might!

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/sports/ladewski/433519,191LAD1.article

Kobe would have to waive a no-trade clause in his contract before he could be moved, which he apparently would agree to do if the Bulls, Dallas Mavericks, New York Knicks or Phoenix Suns are the destination. Forget the Mavericks and the Suns -- they're in the same conference as the Lakers -- and the Knicks have no players of any great value.

Obviously just another hater filled with venom.

Paul Ledewski from the DailySouthtown.com... always the pre-eminent source when it comes to Kobe Bryant's trade demands i gather. lol.

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by 4949:

If the Knicks don't make the move, chicago just might!

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/sports/ladewski/433519,191LAD1.article

Kobe would have to waive a no-trade clause in his contract before he could be moved, which he apparently would agree to do if the Bulls, Dallas Mavericks, New York Knicks or Phoenix Suns are the destination. Forget the Mavericks and the Suns -- they're in the same conference as the Lakers -- and the Knicks have no players of any great value.

Obviously just another hater filled with venom.

As i've said our offer would be one of Quantity over raw value in 2 players. We can give a lot of young talent and picks along with absorbing salary for them if they want. We can't match the promise of Deng and Ben or Kirk. But it's really not about us competing with Chi. Chi has to decide if they want to start all over again after being so successful at building their current team. Chicago isn't a deep team they just happen to have good frontline talent, but if you trade much of it, there's not much left. I think they realize that and won't risk getting Kobe, only to have the same problem if not worse than he has in LA now. What many of us are saying is that Chi can put together the better offer, but will they?

It doesn't make sense for them to do that and still end up with a team that can't win a title. All of Chi talent is tied up in the very players they'd have to trade and then there's a steep fall off. We can actually give away a lot of our young talent and still we'd have enough talent to put a winning team on the floor around Kobe. We may not have the highest quality but we have good quantity of talent. Especially if you have Kobe at the heart of it.

I cannot believe my eyes.
Just a week back you was pritching to keep our joung core and pass on all trades and signings because we have talent assembled by IT and team just need time to jell and will play great next year and so on and so forth...
Now Kobe is on the market and suddenly its all irrelevant. We have nothing to lose, we have not so good talent as Chi, we can give up half or all the youth to get supper star Kobe and bla..bla...bla...
So is Knicks team there to prove that Isiah is not a moran or to play great bbal for NY fans?
Looks like first and Kobe is a good way to make the IT thing mute again.
Kobe is one man show and with his arrival Eddy and Marbs will became irrelewant. I am not talking about steve who is irrelevant already. Kobe need players like Lee, Collins, and Balkman alike around him to do the dirty job when he is shining.
And I guess his idea is to get to NY by exchange with Marbs and Eddy. Why LA needs this I have no idea but if they have no choise this is what I will propose: Kobe for Eddy and Marbs and first rounder. make sense for the Knicks...

Posted by TMS:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by 4949:

If the Knicks don't make the move, chicago just might!

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/sports/ladewski/433519,191LAD1.article

Kobe would have to waive a no-trade clause in his contract before he could be moved, which he apparently would agree to do if the Bulls, Dallas Mavericks, New York Knicks or Phoenix Suns are the destination. Forget the Mavericks and the Suns -- they're in the same conference as the Lakers -- and the Knicks have no players of any great value.

Obviously just another hater filled with venom.

Paul Ledewski from the DailySouthtown.com... always the pre-eminent source when it comes to Kobe Bryant's trade demands i gather. lol.

Who said that? Just pointing out that people, who have no reason to have a bias against the Knicks, realize that the Knicks don't have the assets to compete for Kobe.

Of course when I say it, it's just because I'm a hater and filled with venom.

there are also people w/a similar non-bias who have reported that a Kobe to the Knicks scenario isn't an impossibility too... the reason why people take whatever u say w/a grain of salt is because you have a history of being negative no matter what the topic when it concerns Isiah.

When hasn't that negativity been warranted?

I never claimed that it was an impossibility but if the Bulls are willing to give up a decent package and take on Kobe, the Bulls are clearly the frontrunner compared to anything the Knicks could offer.