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Randolph Morris's numbers last year when he had atleast 30 minutes
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bobs3304
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6/6/2007  6:02 PM
elden campbell is a VERY good comparison.



DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
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Solace
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6/6/2007  6:27 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Solace:

Agreed. Going back to the original point, Curry is more talented than Sweetney. That's not really a comparison. Also, aside from scoring in the post, what does Curry do better than most NBA players? If the notion is that Curry is more talented than Sweetney, I agree. If the notion is that Curry is better conditioned than Sweetney, I agree. If the notion is that this is a reasonable point of comparison to compare Eddy "The Next Shaq" Curry to Mike "We're Hoping for 16 and 9" Sweetney on any level, especially expectations, I highly disagree. As for Randolph, I just haven't seen enough of him to judge. Hopefully he turns out good. I think it was a saavy move by Isiah; I can't knock him for that one.

when Sweetney was drafted people were comparing the kid to Elton Brand & Charles Barkley... so let's not skew this conversation with the "next Shaq" references to Curry if you're not going to use the same types of exaggerated expecations for Sweetney when he first got here.

I highly disagree. The only arguments I remember towards Barkley and Brand were build. With Curry, coming out of high school, the actual thought was he could be AS GOOD as Shaq. Nobody, that I can remember, ever said Sweetney would be as good as Barkley or Brand.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Bonn1997
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6/6/2007  6:39 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Solace:

Agreed. Going back to the original point, Curry is more talented than Sweetney. That's not really a comparison. Also, aside from scoring in the post, what does Curry do better than most NBA players? If the notion is that Curry is more talented than Sweetney, I agree. If the notion is that Curry is better conditioned than Sweetney, I agree. If the notion is that this is a reasonable point of comparison to compare Eddy "The Next Shaq" Curry to Mike "We're Hoping for 16 and 9" Sweetney on any level, especially expectations, I highly disagree. As for Randolph, I just haven't seen enough of him to judge. Hopefully he turns out good. I think it was a saavy move by Isiah; I can't knock him for that one.

when Sweetney was drafted people were comparing the kid to Elton Brand & Charles Barkley... so let's not skew this conversation with the "next Shaq" references to Curry if you're not going to use the same types of exaggerated expecations for Sweetney when he first got here.

I highly disagree. The only arguments I remember towards Barkley and Brand were build. With Curry, coming out of high school, the actual thought was he could be AS GOOD as Shaq. Nobody, that I can remember, ever said Sweetney would be as good as Barkley or Brand.
I remember people like me fantasizing about him being the next Elton Brand, but people do that for every pick. Q Woods was the next T-Mac! I don't remember any talk of Charles Barkley comparisons though.
Allanfan20
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6/6/2007  7:29 PM
Solace and TMS, the comparisons aren't saying "Will they be as good as them." The comparisons mean "Do their games resemble that player."

Curry is being compared to Shaq b/c he scores in the post with his back to the basket. Same with Sweetney and Brand.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bonn1997
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6/6/2007  7:36 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Solace and TMS, the comparisons aren't saying "Will they be as good as them." The comparisons mean "Do their games resemble that player."

Curry is being compared to Shaq b/c he scores in the post with his back to the basket. Same with Sweetney and Brand.
Actually I think people often make these comparisons on very superficial characteristics. If a European player is tall and white, he's the next Dirk. If a guy is a little chubby and short for PF, he's the next Charles Barkley.
nixluva
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6/6/2007  10:49 PM
Morris from everything i've read has a very good talent level. He's very agile and actually was pretty active. From the video footage i've seen of him he's a solid post player with a nice touch and seemed to have a good BB IQ. He performed well against the better players in college and he was a focal point for his team.

People who bring up his work ethic are only parroting the opinions of him from his 1st season. Since then he's gotten in great shape and has matured. He's a different player now. Just because he got a small contract doesn't mean that he's not a valuable prospect. His stats are as good as any of the other bigs not named Durant or Oden. There's good reason to be happy and optimistic about him, just as you would any of the 1st rd picks this year. Don't listen to the naysayers here who just want to continue to look on the dark side without any real reason to do so.
TheGame
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6/7/2007  5:21 AM
Posted by OldFan:
Posted by TMS:

college stats don't always amount to much... Kurt Thomas was a beast in college.

If this kid turns out to be as good as Kurt I'll be very happy.

If he turns out to be Elden Campbell, I would probably not be happy, but I would definitely think that we made a smart move in getting him.
Trust the Process
TMS
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6/7/2007  7:51 AM
i think it was a smart move getting him too... just don't expect too much until you see him put up numbers at this level.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
MS
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6/7/2007  9:29 AM
You guys are on drugs if you wouldn't take elden cambell production out of morris. The kid however is not that good, and is not noted as a smart player either, his condition and work ethic have always been in question......

Cambell
93 12.3pts 5.2rbs 1.96blks
94 12.5pts 4.2rbs 1.27blks
95 13.9pts 6.8rbs 2.59blks
96 14.9pts 8.0rbs 1.52blks
97 10.1pts 5.6pts 1.26blks
99 15.3pts 9.4rbs 1.78blks traded to char

He had a bunch of other good years

But your not taking 10pts 6rbs 1.5blks from a bench big you should take isiahs place and sign another jerome james. Cambell was big and physical something you need from a bench player
nixluva
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6/7/2007  9:43 AM
Posted by TMS:

i think it was a smart move getting him too... just don't expect too much until you see him put up numbers at this level.

One thing that was apparent even with his being so green is that he will still draw fouls at the NBA level. He's built the right way for a post player. He has much of his weight in his hips and thighs and solid base that helps him hold his position. His upper body strength is there too. He's also very quick and agile for a guy his size. He's already more powerfully built than Frye. He doesn't have the range of Frye, but he's got a nice touch.

I like how this one writer described his potential:

"Before you counter with how lazy Randolph is, and whether or not he's going to find playing time with Channing Frye and David Lee in the mix, consider these four games Morris had this season:

vs. North Carolina 10-11 field goals, 23 points, 7 rebounds
vs. LSU 20 points, 10 rebounds
vs. Alabama 17 points, 11 rebounds
vs. Kansas 22 points, 8 rebounds

For those of you who haven't paid attention to college hoops this season, here's the common thread among those teams - they all have NBA-bound frontline players you will be hearing from sooner than later. UNC has Tyler Hansbrough and Brandan Wright, LSU has Glen Davis, Alabama has Jermareo Davidson and Richard Hendrix and Kansas has Darrell Arthur and Julian Wright. And Morris posted impressive numbers against all of them."

"What I saw him from this year was an impressive jump hook and an innate ability to get to the foul line. So Eddy Curry minus 40 pounds and plus some jumping ability. Randolph's already got an NBA body. "

Not to mention Morris was a key cog in his team making the NCAA's. He's come a long way since his freshman year. He may not be an Oden or Durant, but he's probably as good as any other bigman prospect in the draft.
islesfan
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6/7/2007  10:01 AM
Posted by nixluva:

People who bring up his work ethic are only parroting the opinions of him from his 1st season.

Morris from everything i've read has a very good talent level.

I like how this one writer described his potential:

You dismiss other people for "parroting opinions" but then you go right ahead and do it yourself.

Hypocrite.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
MS
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6/7/2007  10:02 AM
Then I am wondering if he is as good as any big man in the draft if the knicks price of 1.5 or 2 whatever it was for two years was too rich for teams like:

Orlando, Washington, Chicago, Sac, Atlanta just to name a few. Their are going to be some bigs taken before the 23rd pick and they are going to get that same amount of money per year....

And Camby won the matchups with Duncan in college, Hibbert outplayed Oden, your in a system in college and many times coaches don't play to a players stregnth, much of UK offense was based around Morris........

College stats mean nothing.
islesfan
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6/7/2007  10:07 AM
I'm just waiting for Isiah to tell us that if he had the 3rd pick, he would have taken Morris. At the very least he'll say that about the 9th pick eventually.

Then he can spin and rationalize about how they really got a lottery pick this year so it evens out giving away their real lottery pick to the Bulls.

It's going to happen.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
nixluva
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6/7/2007  10:18 AM
Posted by islesfan:

Posted by nixluva:

People who bring up his work ethic are only parroting the opinions of him from his 1st season.

Morris from everything i've read has a very good talent level.

I like how this one writer described his potential:

You dismiss other people for "parroting opinions" but then you go right ahead and do it yourself.

Hypocrite.

AS USUAL, you miss my point entirely. It's not just the fact that they repeated reports of the player, which is what many of us would do, it's the fact that they are repeating OLD stuff from his freshman year over and over again, as if it was indicative of what he does NOW!!!

What i'm saying is that get they need to get the information about him UP TO DATE!!!. If you're going to mention his work ethic issues, at least also be aware that most of that came from his freshman year and since then he's gotten into great condition, has become a leader on his team, he helped lead his team to the NCAA's and did well. In the 1st rd against Villanova he had 19 pts, 11 rebs, 3 blks, 1 ast and 1 stl. In the 2nd rd against Kansas he had 22 pts, 8 rebs, 2 blks and 1 stl. All season he played well. He's not perfect, but he's far from the descriptions of him which are out of date and don't represent who he is today. The extra 2 years in College seem to have helped him a great deal. He already started out with a good talent level and was considered a good prospect, but his work ethic and immaturity worked against him. Two years later he's begun to realize some of his potential, matured and has changed his work ethic.

GO and read up on his game performances and what he meant to the team these last 2 years and this one in particular.
islesfan
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6/7/2007  10:23 AM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by islesfan:

Posted by nixluva:

People who bring up his work ethic are only parroting the opinions of him from his 1st season.

Morris from everything i've read has a very good talent level.

I like how this one writer described his potential:

You dismiss other people for "parroting opinions" but then you go right ahead and do it yourself.

Hypocrite.

AS USUAL, you miss my point entirely. It's not just the fact that they repeated reports of the player, which is what many of us would do, it's the fact that they are repeating OLD stuff from his freshman year over and over again, as if it was indicative of what he does NOW!!!

What i'm saying is that get they need to get the information about him UP TO DATE!!!. If you're going to mention his work ethic issues, at least also be aware that most of that came from his freshman year and since then he's gotten into great condition, has become a leader on his team, he helped lead his team to the NCAA's and did well. In the 1st rd against Villanova he had 19 pts, 11 rebs, 3 blks, 1 ast and 1 stl. In the 2nd rd against Kansas he had 22 pts, 8 rebs, 2 blks and 1 stl. All season he played well. He's not perfect, but he's far from the descriptions of him which are out of date and don't represent who he is today. The extra 2 years in College seem to have helped him a great deal. He already started out with a good talent level and was considered a good prospect, but his work ethic and immaturity worked against him. Two years later he's begun to realize some of his potential, matured and has changed his work ethic.

GO and read up on his game performances and what he meant to the team these last 2 years and this one in particular.

Must be why teams were falling over themselves trying to sign this guy for less than they spend on the oil used to make popcorn in their arenas.

Maybe those GM's just had the OLD stuff to go on.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
nixluva
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6/7/2007  11:08 AM
Posted by islesfan:

Must be why teams were falling over themselves trying to sign this guy for less than they spend on the oil used to make popcorn in their arenas.

Maybe those GM's just had the OLD stuff to go on.

Yeah that's right, make more stupid jokes! There were other issues at stake. Many teams it was reported didn't really know his status. Many teams likely weren't as aggressive as the Knicks. His father said that they were VERY aggressive and showed a lot of interest in signing him and they had belief in his ability. Isiah didn't just start thinking about him at the last minute. He nurtured that relationship and called immediately to show just how eager the Knicks were to get him. Not every team made sure to keep a roster spot open and so forth.

This is a snippet from the recap of the last NCAA game against Kansas:

Morris finished with 22 points, including 14 from the line...
But Morris left after picking up his third foul with 17:46 still to play. And just like last year, the Jayhawks steamrolled Kentucky with Morris on the bench.

"He's critical," Smith said. "When he went out, that's when we kind of lost momentum."

Wright made a jumper and scored on a follow as Kansas ran off eight unanswered points as part of a 13-2 run. An irritated Smith called a timeout, and Sheray Thomas stopped the Kansas run with a layup afterward.

Morris returned with just over 12 minutes to play, but the damage was done. Kansas had found its legs.

NONE of this is a guarantee that he's gonna be anything special, but he's shown some ability and i've seen some of his games and he looks pretty good. He was able to post against anyone and draw fouls. With work he can be a solid bench player for this team. He needs to continue to develop more variety in his post moves, but he already has a decent skill level and can make shots 10-15 out. His quick feet and agility for a guy his size should be assets. He's a very good student and has a high level of intelligence which can only help him. We'll see what Aguirre and the staff can get out of him.
misterearl
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6/8/2007  10:46 AM
Nixluva - well stated and thoughtful analysis of Morris

As Josh McRoberts is being held up as one of the best big men in the draft, I would offer that the homework and relationship-building Isiah and the Knicks invested to lay the foundation to sign Morris the instant he was declared eligible, was rewarded with this bonus pick.

The fact Morris, a first-round talent, was signed to an unprecedented NBA contract DURING his final collegiate season, makes the Knicks "second" selection a tasty complement, provided that the next drafted player can actually play a lick.

Based on the recent NYK draft history, the chances are favorable that the number 23 selection can walk and chew gum at the same time.

I look forward to watching the young guys mature and develop.

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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6/8/2007  10:54 AM
Stated another way nixluva, (just for kicks and giggles) Jason Smith of Colorado is projected by Nbadraft.net at number 15

Quick, name the conference Smith played in?

Meanwhile, to back your point, Morris played in the rock 'em sock 'em SEC, which just happens to be the home of the consecutive champion Florida Gators.

You did the math nixluva, and I thank you

[Edited by - misterearl on 06-08-2007 10:55 AM]
once a knick always a knick
nixluva
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6/9/2007  1:12 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Stated another way nixluva, (just for kicks and giggles) Jason Smith of Colorado is projected by Nbadraft.net at number 15

Quick, name the conference Smith played in?

Meanwhile, to back your point, Morris played in the rock 'em sock 'em SEC, which just happens to be the home of the consecutive champion Florida Gators.

You did the math nixluva, and I thank you

[Edited by - misterearl on 06-08-2007 10:55 AM]

Morris did well against Noah and Horford incidentally. I think he's a good prospect and has a chance to succeed like any of the 1st rd picks this year.
babyKnicks
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6/9/2007  8:48 AM
morris will be better than any player chicago takes with the 9th pick.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
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Randolph Morris's numbers last year when he had atleast 30 minutes
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