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Stern and Dan patrick are on the radio getting it on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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islesfan
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5/16/2007  5:33 PM
Stern is on PTI now. And Stu Jackson is on Mike and the Mad Dog.

Damage control and spin at it's finest.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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mythfaze
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5/16/2007  5:34 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by mythfaze:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by mythfaze:
Posted by tkf:

No one is saying stern is wrong, but as the commisioner he has the ability to look at what is in the best interest of the game, for the fans and players. We are not asking him to try and judge what players intentions are when running on the court, but in this case looking at amare and diaw, could he not have said they were not in the "vicinity" just as easy. as isle said, what is in the "vicinity" how big is that "vicinity" come on!

Not based on the precedent that has been set he couldn't have.

You mean like in 2002, when several Sacramento Kings players rushed to the aid of Doug Christie after he was attacked in a tunnel by the Los Angeles Lakers' Rick Fox.

Nobody was suspended and I'm pretty sure that the tunnel from the court to the lockerrooms is nowhere near "the vicinity of the bench".

There is no hard and fast precedent and there is no consistency.

I'd really like to see Duncan come off the bench and walk all the way out to the free throw line tonight. Apparently that would be normal behavior.

The rule was intended for on court altercations, according to Stu Jackson.

Then again, he also says something else to give some more ammo to your argument:

"Our rule regarding an automatic suspension for players leaving the bench was not intended to apply in a highly unusual situation like this one, where an altercation occurs in an access tunnel or hallway,'' NBA vice president Stu Jackson said. "In this circumstance, our judgment was that the players who left the bench were attempting to break up the fight and did not escalate the altercation.''

Feel free to take that and run with it...

On the court, I see. So the stands would be a good place for the players to escalate an altercation.

Don't need to run with what Stu "The Double Talker" Jackson says, he doesn't need the help.

Yes, exactly. Since the rule was made to apply to what happens on the basketball court (imagine that?) it means you should do the opposite elsewhere. Find all places where the rule doesn't apply (e.g. stands) and preform the otherwise forbidden behavior. Good catch.
mythfaze
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5/16/2007  5:35 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Stern is on PTI now. And Stu Jackson is on Mike and the Mad Dog.

Damage control and spin at it's finest.

You're watching/listening I take it? Post any highlights...
islesfan
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5/16/2007  5:35 PM
So myth, are you finally coming around to our side?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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5/16/2007  5:38 PM
Posted by mythfaze:
Posted by islesfan:

Stern is on PTI now. And Stu Jackson is on Mike and the Mad Dog.

Damage control and spin at it's finest.

You're watching/listening I take it? Post any highlights...

I'm listening to Stu now but I missed a lot of it. Although I did hear Jackson say that "the vicinity" was open to interpretation. So much for it being a "red letter rule".

He's also hiding behind the Kermit Washington assault of Rudy Tomjanovich.

I'm DVRing PTI. It's also available for free on iTunes for those that want to listen to Stern.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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5/16/2007  5:47 PM
How does this rule prevent fights and abhorrent behavior when James Jones would have helped his team by escalating his incident with Elson, which would have gotten Duncan and Bowen suspended since they were already 6 feet out on the court?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
mythfaze
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5/16/2007  5:52 PM
Posted by islesfan:

So myth, are you finally coming around to our side?

Sort of. Although not because of any "but, look at Duncan during that big bad altercation lolz!!1" nonsense. Still think that's crap. Mostly because of Jackson's idiotic "they didn't escalate the situation" comment after the Kings/Lakers incident and the tape of the Raptors/Timberwolves incident.

There have been so many times where they have interpreted it the same way. Step off the bench during an altercation, get suspended. Knicks fans should know better than anyone else - doesn't matter if you escalated anything or not. TNT showed Barkley stepping out on the court to get a better view of an altercation during a game (he was subsequently suspended). Rose just talked about when he stepped off to look at something going on all the way down the court and got suspended.

I think looking at how many times its been handled the same way and looking at the 2ish exceptions (Kings/Lakers is iffy in my mind) should raise the "why weren't people suspended in these instances? How do we make sure they're more consistent in the future" response. Not a "well, these 1-2 exceptions prove the league should have blatantly disregarded their precedent and switched directions with this ruling" response.

All in all, I think the rule is and has been interpreted stupidly from the beginning. And while exceptions are popping up in the league's consistency here and there, for the most part they've acted the same way time and time again.
islesfan
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5/16/2007  6:13 PM
Stern flat out lied in his interview on PTI.

He claimed that the ref had to break away from the participants in the incident to grab Stoudemire and keep him from getting into it.

Go back and check the tape. Stoudemire and Diaw never got close to the ref. The closest ref to the Suns bench, Steve Javie, was standing by Nash and D'Antoni, trying to separate them from Horry and the group of people by him. Javie puts a hand up for a second and then he chases and grabs Nash as he gets up and bolts towards Horry.

It's amazing the lengths that Stern and his minions are going to.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
holfresh
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5/16/2007  6:34 PM
I'm really surprised by all the uproar over this...I remember the Knicks losing almost half of it's roster when PJ Brown did a wrestling move on Charlie Ward...As I remember it, the rest of the NBA celebrated it and call the Knicks thugs....Knick players missed multiple games...There were a quite few chuckles on TV at the Knicks' expense...Now it's happened to the Suns, we all feel bad about it????....They don't get my sympathy...The Knicks were a championship caliber team back then...It still hurts...I like level playing fields...Rules are rules...If my Knickerbockers had to suffer and was nixed (no pun) of a chance for a championship...I want to see that rule enforced every time possible including this time... Stupid rule tho....

[Edited by - holfresh on 05-16-2007 6:36 PM]
Vmart
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5/16/2007  7:06 PM
Funny thing is this rule was placed because of Greg Anthony and Kevin Johnson, Knicks had their suspensions in 97 and now the Suns are paying the price for the rule. Absolutely insane. Their is no way the Suns shouold be handed this stupid suspension reguardless if Amare left the bench or Diwa as cooler heads prevaled. And basically both players were still in the vicinity of the bench.
sebstar
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5/16/2007  7:07 PM
Posted by Masterplan:

hey who listened to d'antoni on Dan Patrick? some of y'all should take a cue from him - quit bitching. he did no crying over spilt milk - admitted his team messed up, said he understands the ruling, isn't crying over the suspensions or duncan and bowen not getting punished. he still thinks his team can win tonight! so instead of comparing the situation to serial killers etc, maybe just watch the game and see how things turn out?

Probably just sucking up to the commish. If both you and your boy D'antoni have no problem with key players being suspended for no good reason at all, be my guest.

I hear what you're saying Holfresh, but by now you should be used to anti-NY sentiment. I find no therapy in seeing another team get screwed in similar fashion. I would say that something needs to be done about this rule, but I wouldnt want to ruffle the feathers of Emperor Stern and activate his Napoleon Complex.

[sarcasm]This is great for business, BTW[/sarcasm]
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
mythfaze
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5/16/2007  7:10 PM
Stern Unhappy With Suspensions; Willing to Look Into Rule Change
Posted May 16th 2007 6:20PM by Marcel Mutoni
Filed under: Suns, Spurs, NBA Gossip, NBA Media Watch, NBA Playoffs

David Stern appeared on Dan Patrick's radio show today to discuss the controversial suspension of Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw for tonight's critical game 5.

The usually calm and collected Stern was testier than I've ever heard him before -- the commish was being extremely sarcastic when addressing Patrick's questions, even more so than usual -- but he did say something of interest to NBA fans: Depending on how the various team owners feel, David Stern is open to perhaps changing the rule about bench players coming onto the court during altercations.

"I'm unhappy with the result. If the owners would like to change it, I'm happy to do it, believe me. I'd be very happy to do it. But to listen to the palaver that Robert Horry changed the series is just silly. What changed the series is that Amare and Boris ran out onto the court." Stern said.

As much as it pains me to admit, Stern is right. Robert Horry did not change this great Playoff series; Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw's boneheaded decision to leave their bench changed the series. As Stern points out, during the altercation, none of the Spurs players left their bench. They simply stood up and looked at what was going on in the skirmish. The same cannot be said for Amare and Boris, and now they're paying the price for it.

Of course Stern could just be playing the political game by saying that he's open to changing the rule, but if I were Robert Sarver (owner of the Phoenix Suns), this is the first thing I would bring up at the next owners' meeting.
TrueBlue
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5/16/2007  7:32 PM
Posted by mythfaze:

Stern Unhappy With Suspensions; Willing to Look Into Rule Change
Posted May 16th 2007 6:20PM by Marcel Mutoni
Filed under: Suns, Spurs, NBA Gossip, NBA Media Watch, NBA Playoffs

David Stern appeared on Dan Patrick's radio show today to discuss the controversial suspension of Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw for tonight's critical game 5.

The usually calm and collected Stern was testier than I've ever heard him before -- the commish was being extremely sarcastic when addressing Patrick's questions, even more so than usual -- but he did say something of interest to NBA fans: Depending on how the various team owners feel, David Stern is open to perhaps changing the rule about bench players coming onto the court during altercations.

"I'm unhappy with the result. If the owners would like to change it, I'm happy to do it, believe me. I'd be very happy to do it. But to listen to the palaver that Robert Horry changed the series is just silly. What changed the series is that Amare and Boris ran out onto the court." Stern said.

As much as it pains me to admit, Stern is right. Robert Horry did not change this great Playoff series; Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw's boneheaded decision to leave their bench changed the series. As Stern points out, during the altercation, none of the Spurs players left their bench. They simply stood up and looked at what was going on in the skirmish. The same cannot be said for Amare and Boris, and now they're paying the price for it.

Of course Stern could just be playing the political game by saying that he's open to changing the rule, but if I were Robert Sarver (owner of the Phoenix Suns), this is the first thing I would bring up at the next owners' meeting.


If Pat Burke Body slammed Tony Parker in front of the Spurs bench you better believe Spurs players would more than likely have left the bench. They left the bench when the non altercation happened with Elson on their end of the floor earlier in the game. I think people need to stop the ridiculousness that human instinct should be easily controlled 100% of the time in a situation like this. The fact that Stern mentioned the Phx Suns coaching staff was unable to prevent their players from leaving the bench suggest that it could happen at any given moment, in any game.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Vmart
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5/16/2007  7:39 PM
Posted by mythfaze:

Stern Unhappy With Suspensions; Willing to Look Into Rule Change
Posted May 16th 2007 6:20PM by Marcel Mutoni
Filed under: Suns, Spurs, NBA Gossip, NBA Media Watch, NBA Playoffs

David Stern appeared on Dan Patrick's radio show today to discuss the controversial suspension of Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw for tonight's critical game 5.

The usually calm and collected Stern was testier than I've ever heard him before -- the commish was being extremely sarcastic when addressing Patrick's questions, even more so than usual -- but he did say something of interest to NBA fans: Depending on how the various team owners feel, David Stern is open to perhaps changing the rule about bench players coming onto the court during altercations.

"I'm unhappy with the result. If the owners would like to change it, I'm happy to do it, believe me. I'd be very happy to do it. But to listen to the palaver that Robert Horry changed the series is just silly. What changed the series is that Amare and Boris ran out onto the court." Stern said.

As much as it pains me to admit, Stern is right. Robert Horry did not change this great Playoff series; Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw's boneheaded decision to leave their bench changed the series. As Stern points out, during the altercation, none of the Spurs players left their bench. They simply stood up and looked at what was going on in the skirmish. The same cannot be said for Amare and Boris, and now they're paying the price for it.

Of course Stern could just be playing the political game by saying that he's open to changing the rule, but if I were Robert Sarver (owner of the Phoenix Suns), this is the first thing I would bring up at the next owners' meeting.

To little and to late. Sterns dropped the ball again. You tell that to Knicks fans and Suns fans the biggest losers in this not the NBA.
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5/16/2007  7:39 PM
The Spurs started all of this with the stupid foul and somehow they are the ones benefitting, makes no sense at all...its human nature to jump up and help a teammate or a friend in a fight...I think this rule definitely gets changed this summer
I wasn't born with enough middle fingers!!!
mythfaze
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5/16/2007  8:36 PM
Cuban on the suspensions...

First, let me go on the record as saying that in the event that a vote comes up to change the rules about suspensions for players leaving the bench, I will vote against changing it.

Why ? Because its incredibly simple to educate players about the rule. Its a rule they fully understand and they understand the consequences of violating the rule. That makes the NBA stronger because it removes uncertainty. Can it result in a game(s) being impacted , yes. However, that impact results from an action a player knew violated the rules and was a mistake. There is no uncertainty about it. All they had to do was not leave the bench.

I actually think that more rules need to be iron clad like the "don't leave the bench rule". Whenever we can remove discretion in enforcement from the NBA the game is better for it.

Fans will hate the Suns not having Amare and Boris, but they all know the rule and recognize that the players knew it and fully understood it. What really gets fans, and me upset is when they can't understand how and why a rule is enforced.

When Jason Terry was suspended for throwing a punch last year, our only argument was whether or not he actually threw a punch. If he did, all involved, including Jason knew and understood what the punishment would be and why.

When Udonis Haslem got suspended a game for throwing a mouthpiece while lying on the ground, I didn't quite get that one. Fined for being mad at an official, that I understand all too well. The suspension I didn't.

When guys throw an elbow to the head or a knee to the groin or have a habit of stepping under a player as he lands, its far too difficult for officials and the league to gauge intent. Its pretty much impossibIe. I think we need to take a no leeway position and make both a flagrant 2 foul. Make it a no questions asked rule. Watch how quickly teams re educate players on how to close out on shooters and how quickly player behavior changes. Not by all, but those who can't probably are repeat offenders and deserve the penalty. A guy missing the rest of a game is a whole lot better than injuring a player and impacting his career.

It won't completely eliminate the need for the NBA to pass judgment on player intent and dish out punishment, but it will reduce the number of times they have to do it.
Vmart
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5/16/2007  8:58 PM
Posted by mythfaze:

Cuban on the suspensions...

First, let me go on the record as saying that in the event that a vote comes up to change the rules about suspensions for players leaving the bench, I will vote against changing it.

Why ? Because its incredibly simple to educate players about the rule. Its a rule they fully understand and they understand the consequences of violating the rule. That makes the NBA stronger because it removes uncertainty. Can it result in a game(s) being impacted , yes. However, that impact results from an action a player knew violated the rules and was a mistake. There is no uncertainty about it. All they had to do was not leave the bench.

I actually think that more rules need to be iron clad like the "don't leave the bench rule". Whenever we can remove discretion in enforcement from the NBA the game is better for it.

Fans will hate the Suns not having Amare and Boris, but they all know the rule and recognize that the players knew it and fully understood it. What really gets fans, and me upset is when they can't understand how and why a rule is enforced.

When Jason Terry was suspended for throwing a punch last year, our only argument was whether or not he actually threw a punch. If he did, all involved, including Jason knew and understood what the punishment would be and why.

When Udonis Haslem got suspended a game for throwing a mouthpiece while lying on the ground, I didn't quite get that one. Fined for being mad at an official, that I understand all too well. The suspension I didn't.

When guys throw an elbow to the head or a knee to the groin or have a habit of stepping under a player as he lands, its far too difficult for officials and the league to gauge intent. Its pretty much impossibIe. I think we need to take a no leeway position and make both a flagrant 2 foul. Make it a no questions asked rule. Watch how quickly teams re educate players on how to close out on shooters and how quickly player behavior changes. Not by all, but those who can't probably are repeat offenders and deserve the penalty. A guy missing the rest of a game is a whole lot better than injuring a player and impacting his career.

It won't completely eliminate the need for the NBA to pass judgment on player intent and dish out punishment, but it will reduce the number of times they have to do it.

How many times has this mofo stepped on the court and ranted like a lunatic towards refs. He should have been suspended from being in the arena or atleast to the owners box.
codeunknown
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5/16/2007  9:13 PM
Posted by mythfaze:

Cuban on the suspensions...

First, let me go on the record as saying that in the event that a vote comes up to change the rules about suspensions for players leaving the bench, I will vote against changing it.

Why ? Because its incredibly simple to educate players about the rule. Its a rule they fully understand and they understand the consequences of violating the rule. That makes the NBA stronger because it removes uncertainty. Can it result in a game(s) being impacted , yes. However, that impact results from an action a player knew violated the rules and was a mistake. There is no uncertainty about it. All they had to do was not leave the bench.

I actually think that more rules need to be iron clad like the "don't leave the bench rule". Whenever we can remove discretion in enforcement from the NBA the game is better for it.

Fans will hate the Suns not having Amare and Boris, but they all know the rule and recognize that the players knew it and fully understood it. What really gets fans, and me upset is when they can't understand how and why a rule is enforced.

When Jason Terry was suspended for throwing a punch last year, our only argument was whether or not he actually threw a punch. If he did, all involved, including Jason knew and understood what the punishment would be and why.

When Udonis Haslem got suspended a game for throwing a mouthpiece while lying on the ground, I didn't quite get that one. Fined for being mad at an official, that I understand all too well. The suspension I didn't.

When guys throw an elbow to the head or a knee to the groin or have a habit of stepping under a player as he lands, its far too difficult for officials and the league to gauge intent. Its pretty much impossibIe. I think we need to take a no leeway position and make both a flagrant 2 foul. Make it a no questions asked rule. Watch how quickly teams re educate players on how to close out on shooters and how quickly player behavior changes. Not by all, but those who can't probably are repeat offenders and deserve the penalty. A guy missing the rest of a game is a whole lot better than injuring a player and impacting his career.

It won't completely eliminate the need for the NBA to pass judgment on player intent and dish out punishment, but it will reduce the number of times they have to do it.

A consistent and certain rule can be consistently and certainly wrong.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
kam77
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5/16/2007  9:40 PM
Posted by mythfaze:

The short of this is there was a scuffle between the Raptors and Timberwolves in a game in 2004, people left the bench, no suspensions. Look at around the 1:10 mark.


Bosh, Raptors stun Timberwolves; Garnett charges Bonner

The Associated Press
Last Updated 11:43 pm PST Wednesday, December 15, 2004

TORONTO (AP) - Kevin Garnett didn't like it when Matt Bonner took him down and celebrated, so Garnett went after him.


Chris Bosh had a season-high 24 points and 14 rebounds in Toronto's 96-90 victory over the Minnesota Timberwolves on Wednesday, in a game where the Raptors' Bonner was ejected for flagrantly fouling Garnett. After Bonner knocked Garnett to the floor with 5:24 left in the fourth, Garnett charged the rookie forward. Official Anthony Jordan and Raptors coach Sam Mitchell held Garnett back, but Latrell Sprewell ran toward Bonner and pushed him.

"It was a hard foul. That really didn't even spark me until I saw him pointing into the crowd like he's some enforcer," Garnett said.


Bonner was ejected, and Sprewell received a technical foul.

Fans chanted "Bonner! Bonner!" and heckled Garnett, but nothing else came of the confrontation.

Bonner, called 'Opie' by his teammates, thanked Mitchell after the game.

"I think his life flashed in front of his eyes when Latrell Sprewell and Kevin Garnett went running at him," Mitchell said. "After the game he told me 'Way to grab Kevin, coach.' I told him, 'You know what Matt, way to get out of the way."'

Bonner could receive a one-game suspension for the flagrant foul, but he thinks he won't get anything once the league sees the replay.

"I would never try to play dirty like that," Bonner said.

Bonner, a fan favorite, slapped hands with the fans as he left the court.

"I felt a lot of pride for myself, the team, the whole city of Toronto that they support me so much," said Bonner, who said he's never been ejected before in his life. "I feel honored."

Bosh, who patterned his game after Garnett, came within one point and one rebound of career highs. The second-year forward, who has struggled recently, finished 11-of-21 from the field for the Raptors, who ended a seven-game losing streak.

"It was real big, not only to win the game but to be an important part if it, it's real special to me," Bosh said.

Garnett had 23 points and 15 rebounds, but made just 9 of 27 shots.

After Bonner's ejection brought the crowd to life, Toronto's Morris Peterson made an empathic dunk to give the Raptors an 87-81 lead with 4:47 left.

Bosh beat Garnett off the dribble and made a reverse layup to make it a 10-point lead with 3:31 remaining and Peterson followed with a 3-pointer for an 11-point advantage.

Peterson added a season-high 19 points for the Raptors, who hadn't won since beating Miami on Nov. 30.

Toronto's Jalen Rose, who has struggled since his name came up in trade talks, went 1-of-4 from the field for just four points.

Notes: Toronto general manager Rob Babcock spent 12 years with the Timberwolves before being hired by the Raptors this past summer. ... Mitchell played 12 season in Minnesota. Garnett considered him a mentor. ... Bosh reached career highs in field goals and field goals attempts after going just 13-of-39 in his previous four games.

A referee holds back Minnesota Timberwolves Kevin Garnett after a fragrant foul by Toronto Raptors Matt Bonner in Toronto Wednesday. AP PHOTO/Adrian Wyld

I wanted to see it but sorry, this is not a good example. It doesn't apply at all. That wasn't a fight that players stepped off the bench and escalated. Those guys were in jumpsuits at the end of the bench where they were acting as peacemakers.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
mythfaze
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5/16/2007  9:43 PM
^^^^^ and? countless examples of players getting suspended using this rule when they were just peacemakers or onlookers
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Stern and Dan patrick are on the radio getting it on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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