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KINGS TOP PRIORTY IS TO TRADE ARTEST
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Solace
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5/15/2007  11:05 AM
BigSm00th, I think we're closer on our opinions than you think. The main thing for me is a compromise. If we're bringing in Artest, I'm okay with that, if we get rid of Marbury, Nate and Francis. It also makes Balkman expendable. Maybe we can use some of these pieces to broker a trade to get a leader... how about Ray Allen?

Then maybe you're talking Curry, Lee, Artest, Ray Allen and Mardy Collins. In that case, I think Artest can succeed. But put him into a position to succeed, not a position to fail.
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MS
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5/15/2007  11:09 AM
Look at it this way you can't win with guys that can't defend at the tail end of their career, Sharif, Bibby (one of the worst in the nba on defense) and Miller can't move....

Why do you think we suck crawford, frye, curry in the starting lineup, not to mention with francis is playing.....


If your going to build around curry you need people that make up for him at every position........If anyone was watching the knicks with balkman and collins getting time they were not getting blow out......you throw artest in there, a more in shape curry a heathy lee.....watch out
BigSm00th
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5/15/2007  11:21 AM
MS I'm with you.

Solace I get your point. My response would be the old adage "winning cures everything." If Artest gets dealt for Jeffries, Frye, and the pick and comes here, Lee, Balkman, and Collins continue to improve, and everyone knows their role and this team wins 46 games and the Atlantic, I dont think there will be many problems. Maybe thats naive of me?
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Solace
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5/15/2007  11:25 AM
Posted by BigSm00th:

MS I'm with you.

Solace I get your point. My response would be the old adage "winning cures everything." If Artest gets dealt for Jeffries, Frye, and the pick and comes here, Lee, Balkman, and Collins continue to improve, and everyone knows their role and this team wins 46 games and the Atlantic, I dont think there will be many problems. Maybe thats naive of me?

I think it's deeper than that. 46 wins and the Atlantic would be nice, but you're talking best case. It could just as easily collapse. What leader to we have to ensure it doesn't?
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Anji
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5/15/2007  11:33 AM



Only thing I would say if you are going to trade for artest try not to make a Horrible trade. I would try to do somingthing like: Artest & Kenny Thomas for Bullspick, Rose, JJ2 or Q.
Knicks can probably buy a pick from the suns if you really want to add a rookie even thoguh the Team is Full. And Im starting to think we should keep frye.
Curry/Frye/JJ
Lee/Kenny/Morris
Artest/Balkman
Crawford/QorJJ2/Nate
Marbury/Collins



[Edited by - anji on 05-15-2007 11:34 AM]
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Silverfuel
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5/15/2007  11:51 AM
Posted by tomverve:

There's a reason Artest's stock is so low. I mean, there have been plenty of good players in bad situations who had their stock plummet, were traded on the cheap, and then revived their careers. But this looks like the 2nd time in 2 years that a team is going to sell Artest on the cheap, which is a bad sign. It looks more like Isiah Rider than Vince Carter to me.
What if we could get him for Frye, Jeffries or Frye + something. That wouldn't be a bad trade for someone that could make you an instant contender. You wouldn't risk it tom?
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MS
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5/15/2007  11:55 AM
I think people don't really see the full spectrum of that move. We need a makeover and unfortunately a lot of people have faith in Isiah.

We wouldn't be in bad shape if he didn't have two horrific offseasons in a row.......
James, Jefferies and the Francis trade were grounds for removal.

However I think the trade that really hurt was Q and Nate for Thomas. Isiah have been more than willing to keep bringing in longer deals. Thomas worked great with Marbury is a good defender down low and is tough, has some balls and gives it his all.......

We need another dog, horse, etc someone that is going to make up for the lack of professionalism from isiah and our players. Artest may be crazy but he doesn't make excuses.......

And I like the idea of going small at time with Lee, Balkman, Artest, Collins, and Marbury
tomverve
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5/15/2007  12:12 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by tomverve:

There's a reason Artest's stock is so low. I mean, there have been plenty of good players in bad situations who had their stock plummet, were traded on the cheap, and then revived their careers. But this looks like the 2nd time in 2 years that a team is going to sell Artest on the cheap, which is a bad sign. It looks more like Isiah Rider than Vince Carter to me.
What if we could get him for Frye, Jeffries or Frye + something. That wouldn't be a bad trade for someone that could make you an instant contender. You wouldn't risk it tom?


I'm not sure that the odds of Artest being a net positive in NY are much greater than the odds of Channing coming back strong from a down season. And if Frye could bounce back, you have either another really nice player without the headaches, or a better trading chip. I'm not counting on it by any means, but I wouldn't count on Artest either.
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nixluva
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5/15/2007  1:06 PM
I think the biggest factor in this is DOLAN! He is the guy that would likely put a stop to any move for Artest. He'd be having nightmares of Spree cursing him all over again. He likely doesn't want anymore crazy situations if he can help it. Right now Nate is the only crazy out of control guy we have and he's more of an annoyance than a real threat like Artest.

You've gotta love him as a player, but fear what he can do to your team with his antics. Dolan looks like he's been opting for the safe route lately. Keeping Isiah. Not making any big signings and buying out contracts. I get the idea that he wants to keep a low profile in terms of controversy. The Brawl this year probably really got to him, but then the team responded well after that and all was forgiven. The fans were happy and coming to the games, which is all he cares about.

On the plus side, you'd likely never have a chance to get a guy like him this cheaply, so in some ways Isiah may have a fighting chance to convince Dolan, IF THAT'S WHAT ISIAH WANTS! He too may fear adding Artest to his fold. Right now the most problem he has is controlling Nate. That's NOTHING compared to what Artest is capable of. I wonder how Isiah really feels about Artest?
MS
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5/15/2007  1:10 PM
Yea Dolan is really concerned about the image of the team?

Name a player other than David Lee that doesn't have 15 tattoos and a horrible attitude.

Name em: Curry, Marbury, Francis, Nate, Jerome all have an attitude, and have been noted for causing serious problems, or not working to their abilities

Frankly Nate is worse than Artest in my opinion, first he prick, plain and simple and you don't win with sideshow clowns, this kid has started fights with teammates, started a brawl and is an embarrasment to the franchise.
Nalod
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5/15/2007  2:23 PM
Thomas next to Eddy would have been great.
Is Frye really KVH remade? But KVH was much better?
Anji
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5/15/2007  3:48 PM
Posted by MS:

Yea Dolan is really concerned about the image of the team?

Name a player other than David Lee that doesn't have 15 tattoos and a horrible attitude.

Name em: Curry, Marbury, Francis, Nate, Jerome all have an attitude, and have been noted for causing serious problems, or not working to their abilities

Frankly Nate is worse than Artest in my opinion, first he prick, plain and simple and you don't win with sideshow clowns, this kid has started fights with teammates, started a brawl and is an embarrasment to the franchise.

YOu really need to "say to me" before you make these exaggerations. Having tatoos isn't the same as wanting to take time off for an Rap career to most people. Nate Robinson has energy issues, I don't think that is the same as wearing out your welcome in city number 4!!!!!! SMH
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MS
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5/15/2007  4:19 PM
Really?

He has started three lockeroom fights, as well as one with the nuggets, he tries to bounce the ball to himself during a losing streak in which the team desperatly needs a win, he is a known complainer around the league, and the team even tried to get him to seak help and go see someone, which he refused.

Actually fans want to relate to players and a lot of old school fans are turned off by the appearance of a lot of the players, which is why the dress code was put into place. Fans are tired of seeing guys covered in tattoos, wearing necklaces, earnings, sunglasses and acting like they are above the law and that the world owes them something......

Fans never had a problem with sprewell because he gave it his all on the court and didn't take plays off.....
TheGame
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5/15/2007  9:13 PM
Posted by MS:

Yea Dolan is really concerned about the image of the team?

Name a player other than David Lee that doesn't have 15 tattoos and a horrible attitude.

Name em: Curry, Marbury, Francis, Nate, Jerome all have an attitude, and have been noted for causing serious problems, or not working to their abilities

Frankly Nate is worse than Artest in my opinion, first he prick, plain and simple and you don't win with sideshow clowns, this kid has started fights with teammates, started a brawl and is an embarrasment to the franchise.


MS,

I am not sure how you can make these comments. What do tattoos have to do with anything? Are Mardy and Balkman bad guys because they have tattoos (assuming they do, I can't recall). It seems to me that they busted their butt as much as anyone on the team and played better defense than Lee ever has. Fyre is a good kid that is just lacking confidence. Really other than Francis, Nate, and Marbury, none of the other players on this team have been problems. Curry and James are lazy, but Curry is trying to change that.

Nate is just a kid that is full of arrogance and just needs to be humbled and mature. I don't think he is worse that Artest. After the brawl, Nate was disciplined and played well during the later part of the season. It seems to me that he has learned something. He still has a ways to go, but to say he is more disruptive than Artest is just showing your hate for the team.
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BasketballJones
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5/16/2007  12:01 AM
I think Nate's personality is set - he'll always be obnoxious. But I don't interpret tattoos negatively. I wouldn't want one and I don't like them, but they don't mean what they used to mean. It used to be mostly sailors, bikers, hard-core druggies and other disreputable types got tatoos. Now it's many many otherwise clean-cut young people getting tattoos. It's a style and a way to annoy older folks.
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franco12
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5/16/2007  9:20 AM
Posted by nixluva:

I think the biggest factor in this is DOLAN! He is the guy that would likely put a stop to any move for Artest. He'd be having nightmares of Spree cursing him all over again. He likely doesn't want anymore crazy situations if he can help it. Right now Nate is the only crazy out of control guy we have and he's more of an annoyance than a real threat like Artest.

You've gotta love him as a player, but fear what he can do to your team with his antics. Dolan looks like he's been opting for the safe route lately. Keeping Isiah. Not making any big signings and buying out contracts. I get the idea that he wants to keep a low profile in terms of controversy. The Brawl this year probably really got to him, but then the team responded well after that and all was forgiven. The fans were happy and coming to the games, which is all he cares about.

On the plus side, you'd likely never have a chance to get a guy like him this cheaply, so in some ways Isiah may have a fighting chance to convince Dolan, IF THAT'S WHAT ISIAH WANTS! He too may fear adding Artest to his fold. Right now the most problem he has is controlling Nate. That's NOTHING compared to what Artest is capable of. I wonder how Isiah really feels about Artest?

I think this really sums up the situation best- Isiah knows Artest first hand.

The one thing with the Dolan/Sprewell biz- somewhere, Dolan must realize that the play off run in 99 was in large part a result of getting Sprewell cheap.

If we could get Artest cheap- lets say Jeffries and our pick- then, if Artest acts up- you send him home and buy him out- cheaper than if we bought out Jeffries, who really didn't inspire anyone with his play.
s3231
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5/16/2007  11:14 AM
Eesh...the only way I would welcome an Artest deal is if we also happened to get Garnett somehow (which isn't happening).

He's not the type of player you want around the young guys and I really don't think its worth the risk unless we're looking to contend anytime soon.

[Edited by - s3231 on 05-16-2007 11:15 AM]
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alexs
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5/17/2007  8:50 AM
Can anybody who complained about lack of toughness, lack of talent or BB IQ not wish that someone like Artest joins the KNicks? In the circumstances it would be a gift from heaven, look what Spree did to the team, Artest will have an even higher impact. He'll even curse Dolan more vigorously, which can only be a gain.
There are risks with him, sure but manage them properly. He'll come on the cheap so get a sports physiater in the same package. Talk to the guy and/or his agent now and you'll find out whether he wants to be in NY or not. Don't listen to what he says but watch his eyes and body language, you'll find out if he's worth the risk.

Or we don't.......... and we keep watching this joke of a BB taem for years to come. Even if it doesn't work out with Artest it will still be much more fun than watching the present clowns. Do it IT do it and become NBA manager of the year in 2008. Imagine Artest, Collins as most improved player, Balkman as NBA defender of the year and Lee as best rebounder of the year, all your work, go go go.
nixluva
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5/17/2007  9:21 AM
If you compare the idea of adding JO or Artest it looks MUCH more favorable to add JO. He's not going to make trouble. He's a pro and a stable guy. If anything JO would be a leader on this team and he'd look to instill the proper attitude for winning. I think Isiah and Dolan would feel much more comfortable and less threatened by JO.
alexs
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5/18/2007  4:41 AM
I think Isiah and Dolan would feel much more comfortable and less threatened by JO.

Sure they will, I was wondering what the fans would enjoy more
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