Posted by tkf:

Blue, I don't understand what you mean by so many posters thinking this team would have beat the 03 team? I really don't think anyone cares about beating that team, but what I do think is that most posters feel this team has the chance of being a better team. The 03 team had some players I loved, KT, Houston, spree, but that was a team with good players but players who were either over 30,comming off major injuries or on the decline. That team as constructed was pretty much a 30-38 win team, am I correct? Guys like Houston, spree, Kt, dice were all guys who have reached their peak as players, in other words, they were not getting better, it was about maintaining their skill level, their best ball was not ahead of them. what I do think people see with this team, lee, curry, crawford, frye, nate, collins, balkman is a team full of guys who have their best ball way ahead of them, like them or not, these guys have so much more room to grow and honestly they may not as a team be better than the 03 team, but I have no doubt in my mind that this team has the talent and ability to supass anything that 03 team did or could have done the way they were constructed and with the players they had. That 03 team had no young players that had their best ball years ahead of them to help propel that team to a playoff contender, with this team, there is still that hope, and there is enough talent for that to happen. weither it will or not is another discussion. Again, I don't think anyone or myself per say feels that this team would have beaten the 03 team, but I do think this team as constructed compared to that team has a lot more upside and will easily surpass that team over the long haul...

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by tkf:

Blue, I don't understand what you mean by so many posters thinking this team would have beat the 03 team? I really don't think anyone cares about beating that team, but what I do think is that most posters feel this team has the chance of being a better team. The 03 team had some players I loved, KT, Houston, spree, but that was a team with good players but players who were either over 30,comming off major injuries or on the decline. That team as constructed was pretty much a 30-38 win team, am I correct? Guys like Houston, spree, Kt, dice were all guys who have reached their peak as players, in other words, they were not getting better, it was about maintaining their skill level, their best ball was not ahead of them. what I do think people see with this team, lee, curry, crawford, frye, nate, collins, balkman is a team full of guys who have their best ball way ahead of them, like them or not, these guys have so much more room to grow and honestly they may not as a team be better than the 03 team, but I have no doubt in my mind that this team has the talent and ability to supass anything that 03 team did or could have done the way they were constructed and with the players they had. That 03 team had no young players that had their best ball years ahead of them to help propel that team to a playoff contender, with this team, there is still that hope, and there is enough talent for that to happen. weither it will or not is another discussion. Again, I don't think anyone or myself per say feels that this team would have beaten the 03 team, but I do think this team as constructed compared to that team has a lot more upside and will easily surpass that team over the long haul...

In a poll conducted here 18 people thought this team would beat the '03 team, vs 17 people who felt the other way.

http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=21145

ah.... got it....

Posted by OldFan:

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by EnySpree:

Posted by Masterplan:

Posted by EnySpree:

Anyway nobody can tell me that the bulls are a well thought out and put together team. They are some lucky bastards. Knicks are gonna burry them next season. Mark my words!

barring injuries

If the bulls had lost deng, nocioni, gordan and hinrich down the stretch what would they be able to accomplish? Those players share the same importance on the bulls as lee, Q, marbs and craw on the knicks. So its a valid argument.

That's not really a fair analogy. We lost David Lee and then some role players who are inferior to all the Bulls' players you're listing.

42 points, 21 rebs. 8 asts and 30+ mpg for the guys we lost is not a bunch of role players. Those are 3 of our best players. Just because you may regard the Bulls players as better doesn't mean that the guys we lost aren't VERY important to what we do. Even if you change out a guy for the Bulls the point still has merit, cuz losing 3 guys that play 30+ mins for you and in particular are in the game in crunchtime, is a HUGE hit. Some of us want to minimize that, but it's really only a convenient argument for those who want to bash the team.

What was the Knicks record when these guys got hurt?


Chicago won 49 games! That's an almost 60% winning percentage. The Knicks never seriously approached 50%. Even in their best streak of the season they just barely managed .500 ball - against lousy teams. It's not even close.

The Knicks were 5 games under at 29-34, with 19 games left. The point is that the Knicks had a chance to win more games and end up somewhere close to .500. If they win 12 games out of the remaining 19 they reach .500. No one is saying they were assured of doing that, but then we'll never know. What I do think we can reasonably say is that they would've likely won more games than they did with all of those injuries.

What you have to look at for next year is that this team won't be coming into the season with so many new and unfamiliar situations. They've at least established some things to build on for next year. This will likely prevent them from going 6-11 again to start the year. We'll probably make some improvements to the roster from within the current team and from outside sources. That in combination can make for a nice increase in wins next year. I believe we'll be much closer to the Bulls next year.

Posted by EnySpree:

The bulls are not a well put together team. I refuse to give them credit.

Next year, say they have tyrus Thomas emerge as the starter. They have deng and Ben up front sealing the 3-5. Gordon and hinrich are good players. Nocioni is their 6th man with vets like Pj, and duhon. Not bad but is that their future? That doesn't seem like a team that can win it all.

Posted by babyKnicks:

I thought we were voting for FUTURE.

why are you downers arguing past and present?

in comparison, I feel the knicks have a brighter future.

we simply have more upside in our current roster.

I feel hinrich, gordon, nicioni, etc have capped out.

it'll be close, but I give it to the knicks.

and yes, future is future..not next year or even the following year.

marbs contract year is the year to look to.

2009.

Posted by babyKnicks:

I thought we were voting for FUTURE.

why are you downers arguing past and present?

in comparison, I feel the knicks have a brighter future.

we simply have more upside in our current roster.

I feel hinrich, gordon, nicioni, etc have capped out.

it'll be close, but I give it to the knicks.

and yes, future is future..not next year or even the following year.

marbs contract year is the year to look to.

2009.

Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by babyKnicks:

I thought we were voting for FUTURE.

why are you downers arguing past and present?

in comparison, I feel the knicks have a brighter future.

we simply have more upside in our current roster.

I feel hinrich, gordon, nicioni, etc have capped out.

it'll be close, but I give it to the knicks.

and yes, future is future..not next year or even the following year.

marbs contract year is the year to look to.

2009.

Lets talk upside - as meaningless as it has proven to be over the years.

Collins vs. Hinrich - Edge to Hinrich
Crawford vs. Gordon - Edge to Gordon
Balkman vs. Deng - Edge to Deng
Lee vs. Ty Thomas - Edge to Thomas (if you're talking upside - you asked for it)
Eddy Curry vs. Ben Wallace - edge to Curry

Our #23 pick vs. Bulls#23 pcik - edge to the Bulls pick
Our payroll vs. Bulls cap space - edge tp Bulls cap space

Thats 6-1 in favor of the Bulls. Game over.

he's talking about the players drafted between 2015-2019.