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Despite Popular Belief, Curry Doesn't Get Enough Touches
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Bonn1997
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5/5/2007  7:30 PM
He was looking at Yao's playoff stats. Yao was at 9.4 in the regular season (in only 33 mpg).
AUTOADVERT
bobs3304
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5/5/2007  7:32 PM
Who the **** cares about the playoffs.


That's not even pertanent to the discussion.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
OldFan
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5/5/2007  8:08 PM
I agree that Crawford and Marbs shoot too much

but...
Curry get 3.6 turnover per game - many of them when he is attempting to get a shot off. I think you need to factor those in as touches. Crawford and Marbury have less touches and I would bet a higher percentage of those were on passes. You also have to adjust his shooting percentage for all those turnovers.
bobs3304
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5/5/2007  9:28 PM
^ No you don't and i have no idea what you're talking about.


Turnovers are turnovers.


What about Yao's?


Seriously...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
4949
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5/5/2007  10:28 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

^ Yao averaged 9 boards a game.


Where do you get your stats from boy.

Boob, I made a boo boo. I did a 'quick' look up on the official Rockets site and failed to notice that what I was looking at were the playoff stats. Let me correct myself here. The scoring was not off by that much. Yao with 25 a game and McGrady 24.4 a game. Yeah, Yao had 9.4 boards a game, but still, I stand by what I said. Don't get so excited. He's still better than your 'boy' Curry.

[Edited by - 4949 on 05-05-2007 10:30 PM]
I'll never trust this' team again.
nixluva
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5/6/2007  12:32 AM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by bobs3304:

^ Yao averaged 9 boards a game.


Where do you get your stats from boy.

Boob, I made a boo boo. I did a 'quick' look up on the official Rockets site and failed to notice that what I was looking at were the playoff stats. Let me correct myself here. The scoring was not off by that much. Yao with 25 a game and McGrady 24.4 a game. Yeah, Yao had 9.4 boards a game, but still, I stand by what I said. Don't get so excited. He's still better than your 'boy' Curry.

[Edited by - 4949 on 05-05-2007 10:30 PM]

YAO IS OVERATED!!! You look at his in season stats and you think he's this great Center, but he's really not. I think Curry is gonna pass him soon, cuz for much of the year Curry was avg'ing over 20 a game. If he just improves a little bit on his FT's he'll be up where Yao is. Yao takes 17 shots a game and Curry 12. In terms of rebounding, Yao is simply the tallest guy on the floor and no one on his team is really fighting him for any rebounds. He's even worse than Curry in terms of chasing down rebounds. His stats to me are inflated and he's not as good as they make him look.

You're gonna be singing a different tune as Curry continues to develop. I really don't know why you can't see that this guy is gonna be a dominant offensive force in this league, when he's already right there at the top step of the next level. This guy has only to make MINOR adjustments to his game to become an All Star. It seems like he has a lot to do, but the things that he's deficient in are WELL within his power to improve. It's not like his biggest problems are hard to acquire skills. If this guy puts in the work he can get to where he needs to be to help this team get better.

EVERY Knick fan should be behind him this summer and hoping that he is successful. Cuz if he is, we're gonna be some happy fans. I think we've seen the best of Yao and it's not enough. I don't believe we've seen the best of Curry yet. He test drove his face up game and it didn't look terrible. He hit a few of those jumpers and he looks like he will be able to add that to his arsenal. I think that will help his FT shooting and passing too.
bobs3304
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5/6/2007  12:41 AM
First of all, Curry is not my "boy".


But for 9.5 million a year, putting up the stats he is, he's gonna be a bargain come next year, and I hope he doesn't opt out.

He's a unique but imperfect talent, and most important he's dominant. In this leage, if you're a big man, you need to either be dominant or versatile and Curry is the former.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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5/6/2007  12:44 AM
Posted by nixluva:

YAO IS OVERATED!!! You look at his in season stats and you think he's this great Center, but he's really not. I think Curry is gonna pass him soon, cuz for much of the year Curry was avg'ing over 20 a game. If he just improves a little bit on his FT's he'll be up where Yao is. Yao takes 17 shots a game and Curry 12. In terms of rebounding, Yao is simply the tallest guy on the floor and no one on his team is really fighting him for any rebounds. He's even worse than Curry in terms of chasing down rebounds. His stats to me are inflated and he's not as good as they make him look.


I think Yao is a bit overrated b/c of the whole international thing. But skill wise he's better than Curry, IQ wise also.

Hell conditiong goes to Yao as well, but let's really hope Eddy gets on that.

Yao isn't physically imposing. Curry is. Yao is just very hard to guard b/c the dude is just so tall and so efficient on offense.


But remember the line - can't teach size. And he's got tons of it.


[Edited by - bobs3304 on 05-06-2007 12:45 AM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
nixluva
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5/6/2007  12:55 AM
I just keep waiting for Yao to do something and I get the sense that he can't do any more than he's doing. He's REAL BIG, but he doesn't play like it. He's slow defensively and unless you put it right in his face he's not blocking your shot. I think Curry has the tools to be a better player than Yao in time. Yao being a better FT shooter gets a bump in his scoring avg. but Curry can blow up a teams interior players if we can give him the space he needs next year. Even with all those guys hanging on him and crowding him he was still a force.

I just think that Knick fans are so reluctant to acknowledge the good things Curry possesses. He is just starting to put things together. I think with just a bit more committment this guy is gonna be a great player for this team. I'm hoping that we'll have both Jamal and Mardy developing great chemistry with Curry and you can see that already happening. If you look at things with a bit of Vision you can see how this team is going to develop. Curry proved that he can play an entire season as the primary option and he'll catch just about anything you throw in his direction. Imagine a more confident Lee and Balkman also feeding Curry and I just like the possibilities. Forget about it if Morris can give us what we need at PF or if we can add someone at that spot.
bobs3304
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5/6/2007  1:08 AM
^ Yao is just a MUCH better trained player.

And don't act like his size isn't a tool just b/c he didn't earn it. The dude is 7-6, just being that big makes him average defensively.


But yea, I agree if Curry got his **** together he could be more imposing.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
4949
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5/6/2007  2:00 AM
YAO IS OVERATED!!! You look at his in season stats and you think he's this great Center, but he's really not. I think Curry is gonna pass him soon, cuz for much of the year Curry was avg'ing over 20 a game.

He never did go over 20 a game for the season. As a matter of fact, he got as high as 19.5 and that' went down, when Crawford went down. Well? I'm still waiting for Curry to pass him up. I'm still singing the same old tune. I never said Yao was great! But he's certainly better than the cheesburger.
I'll never trust this' team again.
highfivesucka
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5/6/2007  2:07 AM
isn't eddy going to get less shot attempts than the guards because he's constantly double and triple teamed?

edit: doh someone already made this point...rats

[Edited by - highfivesucka on 05-06-2007 02:07 AM]
^precocious neophyte.
4949
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5/6/2007  2:10 AM
I really don't know why you can't see that this guy is gonna be a dominant offensive force in this league, when he's already right there at the top step of the next level. This guy has only to make MINOR adjustments to his game to become an All Star. It seems like he has a lot to do, but the things that he's deficient in are WELL within his power to improve.

You don't know why I can't see? Of course I can't see! There's nothing to see! Make me laugh harder will ya! The dominant offensive force in this league? Ha!!! He couldn't score on an ant. I like the excuse here. 'has only to make MINOR adjustments to his game to become an All Star'? Ho, ho, ho, ho, ho Is that what it was? What's the other thing you said? Oh yeah! 'he's deficient in are WELL within his power to improve'? Really Sherlock Holmes?

This guy is no dominant offensive force! Are you kidding man?! He's 1-7 against his old bulls team. He hasn't dominated anything. A team that plays consistantly under .500 and who isn't even close to making the playoffs is a complete failure! This team stinks and it seems I'm the only one who's willing to say it for what it is. It's one thing for someone to say he's such a great offensive force, but to be attacked because of it is a waste of both of our times.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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5/6/2007  2:21 AM
He's a unique but imperfect talent, and most important he's dominant. In this leage, if you're a big man, you need to either be dominant or versatile and Curry is the former.

You and few others here can only say these things if they are true. And they are NOT' true! These are great words for a guy who's barely done anything, for a guy who is 'STILL' developing and can't even break the 20 point a game mark, even block a damn shot a game or rebound better. Hell' Lee's more dominant than cheeseburger is in that' department. I hear the word dominant, but a record of well under .500, and with him playing just about every game, I have yet to see this domination that we've been hearing about for so long now. The fact is, you attack this with hope and I counter attack with facts.
I'll never trust this' team again.
highfivesucka
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5/6/2007  2:21 AM
the funny thing is that after last year and into this year, most people had already given up on Eddy and I had taken the stance that I'd give him the supreme benefit of the doubt... and then one game he just had one of his usual turnover, offensive foul, flip a shot up at the basket, stand and look at the guy dribbling past him on defense, not going after boards etc. type of games, and I got so mad that I finally gave up on him. then the very next game he had his first "turnaround" game, that string of 20-point games that he had. so I could say that he could still surprise me again, but I really don't think so. this late in his career, I hate to say it but I think the people who say as of now, for the most part "what you see is what you get" are right. which isn't so bad honestly, but I don't think he's going to be a super star that we build a team around
^precocious neophyte.
4949
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5/6/2007  2:28 AM
I'd like to make one thing clear here. I'd for one would love to see starbury or Curry and a few others bring the weight they carry that is supposed to be worth they're gold. What I don't like is the notion of people calling either one of them dominant or our best players, when it is clear that it is wayyyyy past they're time to prove it anymore. I feel the same way about the coach also. If he can fires others for not turning things around, then he can fire himself. I'm just trying to be honest with myself here.
I'll never trust this' team again.
OldFan
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5/6/2007  5:50 AM
Posted by bobs3304:

^ No you don't and i have no idea what you're talking about.


Turnovers are turnovers.


What about Yao's?


Seriously...

Yes I do. I've never liked Marbs or Crawfords games.

I thought your point was the Knicks weren't getting him the ball enough. In which case turnovers matter. If he gets the ball and tries to get a shot off 16 times a game but turns it over 4 of those times - then the knicks still got him the ball 16 times.

Turnovers like any stats is not independent of other stats. That's why people pay attention to things like assist to TO ratios. It also depends on how often you have the ball - Curry isn't getting the ball enough and he still manages to turn it over 3.6 times a game.

I wasn't comparing him to Yao but if you want to make the comparison at this point Yao is much better. Yao along with being a better defender and rebounder is also a better offensive player and he manages to get off 5 more shots a game (more touches) with less turnovers.


Responding to your other posts. Curry is not dominant. Everything he gives you in shooting percentage he gives back in TOs, lack of rebounding and lack of defense. Curry is a guy who can score and has potential - but far, far from dominant.
Bonn1997
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5/6/2007  8:19 AM
Can anyone praise Curry without using the future tense? All this "He's going to do X, Y, or Z next year" is garbage because that's just what you're *hoping* for and it's what people have said for the last six years about him.
Bonn1997
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5/6/2007  8:28 AM
Posted by bobs3304:

^ No you don't and i have no idea what you're talking about.


Turnovers are turnovers.
Turnovers are "touches" (the subject of your thread). You have to count them unless you can explain how one would turn the ball over without touching it
nixluva
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5/6/2007  10:31 AM
Posted by 4949:
YAO IS OVERATED!!! You look at his in season stats and you think he's this great Center, but he's really not. I think Curry is gonna pass him soon, cuz for much of the year Curry was avg'ing over 20 a game.

He never did go over 20 a game for the season. As a matter of fact, he got as high as 19.5 and that' went down, when Crawford went down. Well? I'm still waiting for Curry to pass him up. I'm still singing the same old tune. I never said Yao was great! But he's certainly better than the cheesburger.

I didn't make that statement in a clear way. I'm sorry about that, I was speaking about his avg for each given month.

15 ppg in Nov.
21.6 ppg in Dec.
22.1 ppg in jan.
20.3 ppg in Feb.
17.9 ppg in Mar.
21.2 ppg in Apr.

So yes, on the season he didn't avg over 20, but he was performing above that for much of the year. His bad start and the dip in Mar. which coincided with the loss of Jamal etc. were the only times that he wasn't at 20+.

I'm telling you that Curry has a GREAT chance to be more dominant than Yao. Yao's game involves too many fade aways and he's not good with physical play and contact. You can make jokes about Curry and try to dismiss his ability, but there's only one guy in the league that currently is more potent at his position.
Yao who is admittedly better prepared than Curry was coming into the league. Curry is picking up a lot of this stuff late. Curry tho has a higher upside to me, but we'll see how much he continues to improve.
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