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Why does Isiah still have supporters despite his 119-182 record with the Knicks?
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nixluva
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5/1/2007  11:00 AM
To me a player who consistently sees double and triple teams isn't a back drop. No matter how much we want to focus on Curry's weaknesses, he's is for a FACT a defense altering force inside. David Lee is a jump shot away from being a Star in this league. We also seem to always forget about Steph and Jamal. They both have the ability to take over a game at a moments notice. If as the doctors expect, Q can comeback pain free, we will have a solid group once again and hopefully they will be even better the 2nd yr under Isiah.

Yes there are still some questions with this team, but when you're talking about a developing team that's always the case.
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MS
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5/1/2007  11:08 AM
Yea Jamal and Steph have been taking over games and leading their teams to victory at a moments notice all the time...

Q healthy? Marbury not breaking down? Eddy out of Shape? Crawford playing under control? Any more ?s
djsunyc
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5/1/2007  11:11 AM
the "wait and see" camp vs. the "where's the evidence" camp

round 254...ding ding...
RemBee76
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5/1/2007  11:13 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

the "wait and see" camp vs. the "where's the evidence" camp

An impossible fight, true, as the only evidence the "where's the evidence" camp will accept are wins and by then the fights already over.

Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
djsunyc
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5/1/2007  11:17 AM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by Bonn1997:
we've used up all our assets

Funny, thats what they said after the Marbury trade, then the Crawford trade, then the Curry trade...

Its just wrong. Truth is we have assets now we didn't have before.

Now how do we use them?

the expirings + picks were here when isiah took over for marbury.

the expirings for jamal + jyd were here when isiah took over.

the tim thomas contract (was the same as kvh's) plus those picks were assets here when isiah took over.

with 3 main components of the starting lineup acquired via "non-assets" left to isiah when he started, it seems like we did have assets before as well.
djsunyc
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5/1/2007  11:20 AM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by djsunyc:

the "wait and see" camp vs. the "where's the evidence" camp

An impossible fight, true, as the only evidence the "where's the evidence" camp will accept are wins and by then the fights already over.

at the end of the day, W's are the only tangible measure for success. everything else is basically just opinion.
nixluva
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5/1/2007  11:21 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

the "wait and see" camp vs. the "where's the evidence" camp

round 254...ding ding...

I know it's a somewhat weak position to take always looking to the future, but when I see a Roster that has so many players that have the bulk of their careers ahead of them and have only been in the league for 2 or less years, I feel you have to have some level of perspective in judging the team.

Lee, Frye, Nate, Balkman, Collins and Morris are all guys that are still developing. Even tho Curry has been in the league for a good while he's also still developing his game. It is a fact that he's only about 7 months older than Frye, so while he's been in the league longer, his game hasn't yet caught up to his NBA experience. I do think he's seen now just how good he can become if he puts his mind to it. I hope that this will motivate him even more to do what he has to do in the summer to get to the next level. I hope that is the case with all of our players. I think they know now that they could be a playoff team if they make the right improvements in their game. I'm sure that Isiah has made that very clear to all of them. So we'll see.
RemBee76
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5/1/2007  11:23 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
everything else is basically just opinion.

Welcome to the Forum.


Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
RemBee76
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5/1/2007  11:26 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
it seems like we did have assets before as well.

The assets we didn't have was young talent.

I have yet to hear the "wheres the evidence" camp lay out a plan for how those assets could have been spun into Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash.

I'm all ears.

Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
djsunyc
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5/1/2007  11:27 AM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by djsunyc:

the "wait and see" camp vs. the "where's the evidence" camp

round 254...ding ding...

I know it's a somewhat weak position to take always looking to the future, but when I see a Roster that has so many players that have the bulk of their careers ahead of them and have only been in the league for 2 or less years, I feel you have to have some level of perspective in judging the team.

Lee, Frye, Nate, Balkman, Collins and Morris are all guys that are still developing. Even tho Curry has been in the league for a good while he's also still developing his game. It is a fact that he's only about 7 months older than Frye, so while he's been in the league longer, his game hasn't yet caught up to his NBA experience. I do think he's seen now just how good he can become if he puts his mind to it. I hope that this will motivate him even more to do what he has to do in the summer to get to the next level. I hope that is the case with all of our players. I think they know now that they could be a playoff team if they make the right improvements in their game. I'm sure that Isiah has made that very clear to all of them. So we'll see.

some perceive the team to have talent and are building towards something. some disagree.

at some point, the team has to start winning. and until it does, they will continue to be criticized. the problem is that the team is not just losing, but losing badly. 33, 23, 33 regardless of the roster/age/experience is losing at a bad clip.

but here are the facts: dolan likes isiah. he gave him an extension. this is his team, sink or swim. the only thing we don't know is how long dolan will stick with isiah. sather got 7 years to make the playoffs. so it looks like isiah is safe for the forseeable future.
Marv
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5/1/2007  11:29 AM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by djsunyc:

the "wait and see" camp vs. the "where's the evidence" camp

An impossible fight, true, as the only evidence the "where's the evidence" camp will accept are wins and by then the fights already over.

by when? the "wait and see"ers could delay the day of reckoning forever. just keep saying wait and see, give this team time to gel, etc. on and on.
djsunyc
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5/1/2007  11:34 AM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by djsunyc:

the "wait and see" camp vs. the "where's the evidence" camp

An impossible fight, true, as the only evidence the "where's the evidence" camp will accept are wins and by then the fights already over.

by when? the "wait and see"ers could delay the day of reckoning forever. just keep saying wait and see, give this team time to gel, etc. on and on.

there is no guarantee that this team will be any different than the hawks have been the past few years. loads of young talent but no wins to show for it.

the hawks are set at the SG and PF position.
we are set at the C position.

they owe a pick to pheonix. we owe 2 picks, one to chicago, one to utah.

we are way over the cap. they have cap space but find it tough to lure free agents.

they have key components missing (i.e. pg, sf, c).
we have key components missing (i.e. pg, sg, sf, pf).

i guess both fanbases are in perpetual "wait and see" mode.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05-01-2007 11:35 AM]
Bippity10
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5/1/2007  11:49 AM
Teams like NY and Atlanta owing picks to teams like Chicago, Utah and Phoenix says a lot about how the franchises are run.
I just hope that people will like me
RemBee76
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5/1/2007  11:49 AM
We have been in "Wait and see" mode for a few years. The Hawks have been in "wait and see" mode since 1993.

The fact that the timeframe is seen as roughly equivalent perfectly illustrates the difference between building a team in Atlanta vs. New York.
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
djsunyc
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5/1/2007  11:53 AM
Posted by RemBee76:

We have been in "Wait and see" mode for a few years. The Hawks have been in "wait and see" mode since 1993.

The fact that the timeframe is seen as roughly equivalent perfectly illustrates the difference between building a team in Atlanta vs. New York.

fact: hawks made the playoffs in 1997 (advanced), 1998, and 1999 (advanced).
Marv
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5/1/2007  11:53 AM
Posted by RemBee76:

We have been in "Wait and see" mode for a few years. The Hawks have been in "wait and see" mode since 1993.

The fact that the timeframe is seen as roughly equivalent perfectly illustrates the difference between building a team in Atlanta vs. New York.

pure diversion.

they're both in "wait and see" now aren't they?

any particular reason to believe either one is on a course to deliver?

neither one is looking too credible at this point. nor in the near future due to imcompetent management on both parts.
djsunyc
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5/1/2007  12:00 PM
full seasons since billy knight became gm in april 2003:

03/04: 28-54
04/05: 13-69
05/06: 26-56
06/07: 30-52

since isiah became gm in december 2003:

04/05: 33-49
05/06: 23-59
06/07: 33-49

considering our ability to take on contracts, all i'm saying is that we're not that far off from atlanta. and this past season, they shut down joe johnson with 21 games to go in the season and they only won 3 less than we did.

we're both pretty much at the same point as franchises right now.
RemBee76
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5/1/2007  12:00 PM
Pure diversion? Hardly, unless you think the timeframe within which you have to build a team is irrelevent.

The truth is, it isn't, and part of the problem here is that people expect the Knicks to operate like they are a small market team in Georgia. Yet we can't, and we have fans who boo ten games into a season and vacate the Garden like its sinking and think a team that has been building for two years should show more "credible" progress than a team that has been building for fifteen.

Diversion? Thems the facts.

Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
islesfan
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5/1/2007  12:03 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by Bonn1997:
we've used up all our assets

Funny, thats what they said after the Marbury trade, then the Crawford trade, then the Curry trade...

Its just wrong. Truth is we have assets now we didn't have before.

Now how do we use them?

This isn't Brewster's Millions where you spend and spend and have nothing to show for it. They spent like half a billion dollars on assets since Isiah has been here and they have about 5 cents on the dollar to show for it, in assets that they "didn't have before".

If a mummy replaced Layden and did absolutely nothing but drafted when the Knicks were supposed to, they'd have a hell of a lot better assets and future than they do now.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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5/1/2007  12:05 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by Bonn1997:
we've used up all our assets

Funny, thats what they said after the Marbury trade, then the Crawford trade, then the Curry trade...

Its just wrong. Truth is we have assets now we didn't have before.

Now how do we use them?

the expirings + picks were here when isiah took over for marbury.

the expirings for jamal + jyd were here when isiah took over.

the tim thomas contract (was the same as kvh's) plus those picks were assets here when isiah took over.

with 3 main components of the starting lineup acquired via "non-assets" left to isiah when he started, it seems like we did have assets before as well.

Don't forget the 2 lottery picks for Curry. They were here before Isiah got here.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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Why does Isiah still have supporters despite his 119-182 record with the Knicks?
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