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Eddy Curry better than Patrick Ewing?
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franco12
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4/8/2007  3:05 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by bigbeast:

Chi (contract yr) 16pts, 5.4rbs, 0.9 blks, 54% fgs, 28 minspg

NY (this yr) 19.5 pts, 7.1 mins, 0.5blks, 58% fgs, 35minspg

Explain to me how this yr isn't better than the yr he had in Chi. He's much more polished offensively, has shown much more stamina to finish games, doesn't foul as much, is the focal point of this offensive and is putting up more shots at a better fg%. His rebounds are up and he even has his number called at the end of games here whereas in Chi, more times then not, he was hardly on the floor down the stretch of games.

I think Bonn did just explain to why you he thinks Curry had a better year that year and I agree. While Curry's offensive numbers are great, his Points Per Minute rate is barely up from his contract year, he has a worse Rebound per Minute rate and a much worse shotblock per Minute rate. Which gives creedance to the argument that Curry is just playing more minutes(which is a good thing, I'm glad to see his stamina has improved) but he's not doing more with those extra minutes, he's actually doing less. I think these facts are alarming and I don't agree with this sentiment that it's a forgone conclusion that Eddy's defense is going to improve next year, I see no reason as to why it's going to improve, he has shown nothing to make anyone think it will. He just could care less about playing defense, let alone some help defense.

Now if Isiah can find a way to surround Eddy with guys that can totally hide these flaws then he might be onto something, but I think that is a VERY hard way to try and build a championship caliber team.


[Edited by - nyk4ever on 04-08-2007 11:41 AM]

Curry's having the worst year of his career defensively. I don't understand why we're supposed to be optimistic about his defense.

Bonn- how are you measuring his defensive output this season- by the numbers or did you watch him in chicago?

As far as his minutes being up and his per minute numbers down- I think the positive is he's been able to stay on the floor- I think when he's been out there for 26 minutes, his teams (LB & Chicago) have wanted to get the most out of him- although we go to him every time, I think he's used differently when he is out for 35 vs 26 mins.
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nixluva
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4/8/2007  3:34 PM
One thing that goes unsaid is how his offense is effecting the other team. He draws a LOT of fouls on the other teams bigs. In fact his FT attempts are up since he's been here. 6.8 last year and 8.2 this year. He's got to get his FT% up tho. If he was shooting at 72% like he was in his contract year, he'd be up over 20ppg and challenging Yao for top scoring Center in the league.

Curry has been improving since he's come in the league despite last year, which I think is an aberration. I think his game will continue to show improvement. He may never get much above 7 rebs or block a ton of shots, but I believe he can have a HUGE positive effect for this team once we fit it more for his game. If we limit teams ability to sag down on him, he's gonna be a monster inside. He'd have an effect that Ewing never did in that he'd be super high % in the post and teams would be helpless against him if not able to double at will. Of course a huge key will be his continued improvement as a passer. I think he can do it. He was much quicker passing the ball back out last night and the more he does this the better he's gonna be. He won't be Vlade, but I think he'll get proficient enough to make the offense work. Especially if he can face up a bit. Some of you may not want to buy in, but you're looking at a real Center in NY for the 1st time since Ewing and he's a good one. Maybe not great, but very good.
Bonn1997
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4/8/2007  4:34 PM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by bigbeast:

Chi (contract yr) 16pts, 5.4rbs, 0.9 blks, 54% fgs, 28 minspg

NY (this yr) 19.5 pts, 7.1 mins, 0.5blks, 58% fgs, 35minspg

Explain to me how this yr isn't better than the yr he had in Chi. He's much more polished offensively, has shown much more stamina to finish games, doesn't foul as much, is the focal point of this offensive and is putting up more shots at a better fg%. His rebounds are up and he even has his number called at the end of games here whereas in Chi, more times then not, he was hardly on the floor down the stretch of games.

I think Bonn did just explain to why you he thinks Curry had a better year that year and I agree. While Curry's offensive numbers are great, his Points Per Minute rate is barely up from his contract year, he has a worse Rebound per Minute rate and a much worse shotblock per Minute rate. Which gives creedance to the argument that Curry is just playing more minutes(which is a good thing, I'm glad to see his stamina has improved) but he's not doing more with those extra minutes, he's actually doing less. I think these facts are alarming and I don't agree with this sentiment that it's a forgone conclusion that Eddy's defense is going to improve next year, I see no reason as to why it's going to improve, he has shown nothing to make anyone think it will. He just could care less about playing defense, let alone some help defense.

Now if Isiah can find a way to surround Eddy with guys that can totally hide these flaws then he might be onto something, but I think that is a VERY hard way to try and build a championship caliber team.


[Edited by - nyk4ever on 04-08-2007 11:41 AM]

Curry's having the worst year of his career defensively. I don't understand why we're supposed to be optimistic about his defense.

Bonn- how are you measuring his defensive output this season- by the numbers or did you watch him in chicago?

As far as his minutes being up and his per minute numbers down- I think the positive is he's been able to stay on the floor- I think when he's been out there for 26 minutes, his teams (LB & Chicago) have wanted to get the most out of him- although we go to him every time, I think he's used differently when he is out for 35 vs 26 mins.

He could have played 35 mpg any season if he did everything he could to avoid contact on defense. If he were trying on defense and staying out of foul trouble, I'd be impressed. But he isn't trying.
nixluva
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4/8/2007  6:08 PM
I think we all would LOVE for Curry to be more active on the defensive end. I wonder tho just how effective he'd be if he wasn't concerned about fouls? In our scheme it's WAY more important for him to be on the floor than for him to get fouls going after shots. I think it's just too easy for small guards to just run into Curry and draw fouls. He's so thick that no ref would give him the benefit of the doubt. If he loses weight then i'd be expecting him to go for a bit more.

Also I think he has to learn WHEN he can be more aggressive. Like late game situations when his foul situation isn't bad. He should look to be more aggressive at those times. I don't think that he should be out there looking to be D. Howard to start games. He's just not that player. Real shot blockers have excellent timing and body control on those blocks. I don't think Curry has that naturally. To really get up like they do he has to gear up. Guys like Camby etc are pogo sticks. Shaq is a freak of nature, since No man his size has ever been that explosive and agile. Curry is athletic, but not quite as explosive and powerful as Shaq. He's also not as tall as Shaq. Curry's girth is a plus on offense, but a minus on help D.
bobs3304
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4/8/2007  6:27 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Now if Isiah can find a way to surround Eddy with guys that can totally hide these flaws then he might be onto something, but I think that is a VERY hard way to try and build a championship caliber team.



That's the deal.

Analyze all day long, but that's the cream of the pie.


You capitalize on his strengths and make up for his weaknesses, or he's just not worth it.


Course this is Isiah...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Rich
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4/8/2007  6:40 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Rich:


They embarrass themselves.

Sorry some people differ from your opinion Rich, everyone who disagrees with you must be a total incompetent jackass.

That might make sense if a person with my point of view started the thread.

Instead it was started by someone who acted as if everyone who disagrees with him "must be a total incompetent jackass."

The irony.

[Edited by - Rich on 04-08-2007 6:41 PM]
Rich
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4/8/2007  6:42 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by bigbeast:

Chi (contract yr) 16pts, 5.4rbs, 0.9 blks, 54% fgs, 28 minspg

NY (this yr) 19.5 pts, 7.1 mins, 0.5blks, 58% fgs, 35minspg

Explain to me how this yr isn't better than the yr he had in Chi. He's much more polished offensively, has shown much more stamina to finish games, doesn't foul as much, is the focal point of this offensive and is putting up more shots at a better fg%. His rebounds are up and he even has his number called at the end of games here whereas in Chi, more times then not, he was hardly on the floor down the stretch of games.

I think Bonn did just explain to why you he thinks Curry had a better year that year and I agree. While Curry's offensive numbers are great, his Points Per Minute rate is barely up from his contract year, he has a worse Rebound per Minute rate and a much worse shotblock per Minute rate. Which gives creedance to the argument that Curry is just playing more minutes(which is a good thing, I'm glad to see his stamina has improved) but he's not doing more with those extra minutes, he's actually doing less. I think these facts are alarming and I don't agree with this sentiment that it's a forgone conclusion that Eddy's defense is going to improve next year, I see no reason as to why it's going to improve, he has shown nothing to make anyone think it will. He just could care less about playing defense, let alone some help defense.

Now if Isiah can find a way to surround Eddy with guys that can totally hide these flaws then he might be onto something, but I think that is a VERY hard way to try and build a championship caliber team.


[Edited by - nyk4ever on 04-08-2007 11:41 AM]

Curry's having the worst year of his career defensively. I don't understand why we're supposed to be optimistic about his defense.

This isn't baseball, a sport in which every player's stats and contributions can be measured in isolation. It's a team game, and that vitiates statistical analysis because roles are interrelated.
bitty41
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4/8/2007  6:43 PM
Instead it was started by someone who acted as if everyone who disagrees with him "must be a total incompetent jackass."

Relaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaax I was just having a little fun thats all right now I try to approach the Knicks with a healthy dose of humor and realism.
Rich
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4/8/2007  7:14 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Instead it was started by someone who acted as if everyone who disagrees with him "must be a total incompetent jackass."

Relaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaax I was just having a little fun thats all right now I try to approach the Knicks with a healthy dose of humor and realism.

I hear ya. The problem is that we have a poster or two (True Blue whatever comes to mind), who starts a thread every freakin' time Curry does ANYTHING wrong.

That nonsense has poisoned the water for any reasonable (or humorous) discussion.

[Edited by - Rich on 04-08-2007 7:18 PM]
Rich
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4/8/2007  7:18 PM
btw, Not to be too serious, but Ewing was crucified in this town before Riley got here for being a jump shooter (coming out of college, he like Oden, was thought to be the next Bill Russell). Even after Riley got here, Ewing was unfairly blamed for not winning a championship, when in fact, that path was wiped out by Scotty Stirling when he traded the pick that became Pippen for Jawann Oldham.
Bonn1997
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4/8/2007  7:21 PM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by bigbeast:

Chi (contract yr) 16pts, 5.4rbs, 0.9 blks, 54% fgs, 28 minspg

NY (this yr) 19.5 pts, 7.1 mins, 0.5blks, 58% fgs, 35minspg

Explain to me how this yr isn't better than the yr he had in Chi. He's much more polished offensively, has shown much more stamina to finish games, doesn't foul as much, is the focal point of this offensive and is putting up more shots at a better fg%. His rebounds are up and he even has his number called at the end of games here whereas in Chi, more times then not, he was hardly on the floor down the stretch of games.

I think Bonn did just explain to why you he thinks Curry had a better year that year and I agree. While Curry's offensive numbers are great, his Points Per Minute rate is barely up from his contract year, he has a worse Rebound per Minute rate and a much worse shotblock per Minute rate. Which gives creedance to the argument that Curry is just playing more minutes(which is a good thing, I'm glad to see his stamina has improved) but he's not doing more with those extra minutes, he's actually doing less. I think these facts are alarming and I don't agree with this sentiment that it's a forgone conclusion that Eddy's defense is going to improve next year, I see no reason as to why it's going to improve, he has shown nothing to make anyone think it will. He just could care less about playing defense, let alone some help defense.

Now if Isiah can find a way to surround Eddy with guys that can totally hide these flaws then he might be onto something, but I think that is a VERY hard way to try and build a championship caliber team.


[Edited by - nyk4ever on 04-08-2007 11:41 AM]

Curry's having the worst year of his career defensively. I don't understand why we're supposed to be optimistic about his defense.

This isn't baseball, a sport in which every player's stats and contributions can be measured in isolation. It's a team game, and that vitiates statistical analysis because roles are interrelated.

agreed, and I've never seen Curry as bad on defense as I've seen him this year.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 04-08-2007 7:22 PM]
Rich
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4/8/2007  7:28 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by bigbeast:

Chi (contract yr) 16pts, 5.4rbs, 0.9 blks, 54% fgs, 28 minspg

NY (this yr) 19.5 pts, 7.1 mins, 0.5blks, 58% fgs, 35minspg

Explain to me how this yr isn't better than the yr he had in Chi. He's much more polished offensively, has shown much more stamina to finish games, doesn't foul as much, is the focal point of this offensive and is putting up more shots at a better fg%. His rebounds are up and he even has his number called at the end of games here whereas in Chi, more times then not, he was hardly on the floor down the stretch of games.

I think Bonn did just explain to why you he thinks Curry had a better year that year and I agree. While Curry's offensive numbers are great, his Points Per Minute rate is barely up from his contract year, he has a worse Rebound per Minute rate and a much worse shotblock per Minute rate. Which gives creedance to the argument that Curry is just playing more minutes(which is a good thing, I'm glad to see his stamina has improved) but he's not doing more with those extra minutes, he's actually doing less. I think these facts are alarming and I don't agree with this sentiment that it's a forgone conclusion that Eddy's defense is going to improve next year, I see no reason as to why it's going to improve, he has shown nothing to make anyone think it will. He just could care less about playing defense, let alone some help defense.

Now if Isiah can find a way to surround Eddy with guys that can totally hide these flaws then he might be onto something, but I think that is a VERY hard way to try and build a championship caliber team.


[Edited by - nyk4ever on 04-08-2007 11:41 AM]

Curry's having the worst year of his career defensively. I don't understand why we're supposed to be optimistic about his defense.

This isn't baseball, a sport in which every player's stats and contributions can be measured in isolation. It's a team game, and that vitiates statistical analysis because roles are interrelated.

agreed, and I've never seen Curry as bad on defense as I've seen him this year.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 04-08-2007 7:22 PM]

OK, but that's a subjective perception.
martin
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4/8/2007  7:32 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by bigbeast:

Chi (contract yr) 16pts, 5.4rbs, 0.9 blks, 54% fgs, 28 minspg

NY (this yr) 19.5 pts, 7.1 mins, 0.5blks, 58% fgs, 35minspg

Explain to me how this yr isn't better than the yr he had in Chi. He's much more polished offensively, has shown much more stamina to finish games, doesn't foul as much, is the focal point of this offensive and is putting up more shots at a better fg%. His rebounds are up and he even has his number called at the end of games here whereas in Chi, more times then not, he was hardly on the floor down the stretch of games.

I think Bonn did just explain to why you he thinks Curry had a better year that year and I agree. While Curry's offensive numbers are great, his Points Per Minute rate is barely up from his contract year, he has a worse Rebound per Minute rate and a much worse shotblock per Minute rate. Which gives creedance to the argument that Curry is just playing more minutes(which is a good thing, I'm glad to see his stamina has improved) but he's not doing more with those extra minutes, he's actually doing less. I think these facts are alarming and I don't agree with this sentiment that it's a forgone conclusion that Eddy's defense is going to improve next year, I see no reason as to why it's going to improve, he has shown nothing to make anyone think it will. He just could care less about playing defense, let alone some help defense.

Now if Isiah can find a way to surround Eddy with guys that can totally hide these flaws then he might be onto something, but I think that is a VERY hard way to try and build a championship caliber team.


[Edited by - nyk4ever on 04-08-2007 11:41 AM]

Curry's having the worst year of his career defensively. I don't understand why we're supposed to be optimistic about his defense.

This isn't baseball, a sport in which every player's stats and contributions can be measured in isolation. It's a team game, and that vitiates statistical analysis because roles are interrelated.

agreed, and I've never seen Curry as bad on defense as I've seen him this year.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 04-08-2007 7:22 PM]

that's cause you barely watched him in CHI and the year before he suffered from foul problems. Also, last year LB didn't give guys who weren't committed to D too much slack.
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Bonn1997
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4/8/2007  7:55 PM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by bigbeast:

Chi (contract yr) 16pts, 5.4rbs, 0.9 blks, 54% fgs, 28 minspg

NY (this yr) 19.5 pts, 7.1 mins, 0.5blks, 58% fgs, 35minspg

Explain to me how this yr isn't better than the yr he had in Chi. He's much more polished offensively, has shown much more stamina to finish games, doesn't foul as much, is the focal point of this offensive and is putting up more shots at a better fg%. His rebounds are up and he even has his number called at the end of games here whereas in Chi, more times then not, he was hardly on the floor down the stretch of games.

I think Bonn did just explain to why you he thinks Curry had a better year that year and I agree. While Curry's offensive numbers are great, his Points Per Minute rate is barely up from his contract year, he has a worse Rebound per Minute rate and a much worse shotblock per Minute rate. Which gives creedance to the argument that Curry is just playing more minutes(which is a good thing, I'm glad to see his stamina has improved) but he's not doing more with those extra minutes, he's actually doing less. I think these facts are alarming and I don't agree with this sentiment that it's a forgone conclusion that Eddy's defense is going to improve next year, I see no reason as to why it's going to improve, he has shown nothing to make anyone think it will. He just could care less about playing defense, let alone some help defense.

Now if Isiah can find a way to surround Eddy with guys that can totally hide these flaws then he might be onto something, but I think that is a VERY hard way to try and build a championship caliber team.


[Edited by - nyk4ever on 04-08-2007 11:41 AM]

Curry's having the worst year of his career defensively. I don't understand why we're supposed to be optimistic about his defense.

This isn't baseball, a sport in which every player's stats and contributions can be measured in isolation. It's a team game, and that vitiates statistical analysis because roles are interrelated.

agreed, and I've never seen Curry as bad on defense as I've seen him this year.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 04-08-2007 7:22 PM]

OK, but that's a subjective perception.

Well it's either going to be subjective or statistical. I'm not sure what else you're looking for.
Rich
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4/8/2007  8:45 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by bigbeast:

Chi (contract yr) 16pts, 5.4rbs, 0.9 blks, 54% fgs, 28 minspg

NY (this yr) 19.5 pts, 7.1 mins, 0.5blks, 58% fgs, 35minspg

Explain to me how this yr isn't better than the yr he had in Chi. He's much more polished offensively, has shown much more stamina to finish games, doesn't foul as much, is the focal point of this offensive and is putting up more shots at a better fg%. His rebounds are up and he even has his number called at the end of games here whereas in Chi, more times then not, he was hardly on the floor down the stretch of games.

I think Bonn did just explain to why you he thinks Curry had a better year that year and I agree. While Curry's offensive numbers are great, his Points Per Minute rate is barely up from his contract year, he has a worse Rebound per Minute rate and a much worse shotblock per Minute rate. Which gives creedance to the argument that Curry is just playing more minutes(which is a good thing, I'm glad to see his stamina has improved) but he's not doing more with those extra minutes, he's actually doing less. I think these facts are alarming and I don't agree with this sentiment that it's a forgone conclusion that Eddy's defense is going to improve next year, I see no reason as to why it's going to improve, he has shown nothing to make anyone think it will. He just could care less about playing defense, let alone some help defense.

Now if Isiah can find a way to surround Eddy with guys that can totally hide these flaws then he might be onto something, but I think that is a VERY hard way to try and build a championship caliber team.


[Edited by - nyk4ever on 04-08-2007 11:41 AM]

Curry's having the worst year of his career defensively. I don't understand why we're supposed to be optimistic about his defense.

This isn't baseball, a sport in which every player's stats and contributions can be measured in isolation. It's a team game, and that vitiates statistical analysis because roles are interrelated.

agreed, and I've never seen Curry as bad on defense as I've seen him this year.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 04-08-2007 7:22 PM]

OK, but that's a subjective perception.

Well it's either going to be subjective or statistical. I'm not sure what else you're looking for.

I'm merely saying that objective analysis of basketball players is problematic.

We don't know what Curry's role is. For example, he may be instructed not to challenge shots in order to keep him out of foul trouble.

We do know that he is an improving young player, who has become an offensive force in the NBA.
Bonn1997
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4/8/2007  9:26 PM
We're in trouble if he's being instructed not to challenge shots.
Rich
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4/8/2007  9:58 PM
Yet before the injuries to Craw, Lee, and to a lesser extent Q, they were on a path to being a .500 team after a 23 win season.
martin
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4/9/2007  12:57 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

We're in trouble if he's being instructed not to challenge shots.

Bonn, if that's what you got out of Rich's post, you need to read it again.
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bobs3304
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4/9/2007  1:07 AM
Coaching, conditioning, and surrounding cast influence a player's production...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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4/9/2007  1:11 AM
Ya guys come on, he had that stretch of 20+ points, and he's had 2 career high games this year.

Plus his weakside defense OUTSIDE of the paint, in my eyes, has DRASTICALLY improved.

So has his ability to stay on the court(a problem Yao had for many years) and not draw fouls (even if that's led to less blocked shots).


So no, hes not perfect, and no he's not a top 3 Center (yet), but he's improved, and had a career night (just let that put a smile on your face atleast)...


Jeez.






DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
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