Posted by Bippity10:

One day Isiah will realize this as he continues to build this team. Focus on guys with effort and stop slamming these jokers down our throats.

Posted by PresIke:

Posted by playa2:

Posted by djsunyc:

at some subconcious level, i think race plays a part in people's opinions on various things. for some it's very important, for others not that important. but i just think it is a factor at some level.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 03-27-2007 1:02 PM]

come on spit it out DJ.

Back in the day when Joe Louis was boxing everyone of the black race was rooting for him to knock out any white boxer because of race relations in america was so strained.

Now with basketball it's a similar thought process. The league and fan base is looking for the next great white hope in pro ball since most of the players on the court are black.

thoughts

In short, I agree with your statement (djsu's to some extent) and the premise of Queenie's question as one cause for Lee's popularity and lack of criticism. This is not to say that his "effort" and "work ethic" are not on their own representative of merit, but the association of those two words with whites versus descriptions like "lazy" and having an "attitude problem" (as some have used for some Knicks) have been used to describe blacks in America has been ocurring for a LONG time. This is also not to say that a black person/athlete cannot possess lower levels of motivation, but those words (based upon my own subjective observations and discussions with others) are far less used when describing white athletes who may display similar attributes.

As for denying race as having anything to do with this, there are a great deal of clinical psycholigical studies/evidence (like the work done by Janet Helms on White Identity Development, and studies on White Privilege) that shows that it is common for most white people, at some point in their life, to deny "racism" (which I am not simply using as a word to describe overt forms of prejudice against anyone of a different skin color, but also its existence in terms of power, economics, culture which appear systematically, and in institutions) when confronted with it or their own participation in its various forms.

This, by the way, does not mean all white people have to be "the devil" or are necessarily "bad" because one can be anti-racist and white (in my view), but I do believe that being self-aware, which involves close examination into one's own potential participation in all forms of racism is vital. Most of us, unfortunately due to the history of racism, may be dismissing potential examples of it too quickly, perhaps without enough information to pass such judgement in a reasonable manner.

For example...

While I may have some knowledge and interest in globalization, international business and finance, I certainly wouldn't consider myself an expert in that area. So, if I happen to like some hedge fund/investment for what may seem to a global fiance expert as arbitrary, I wouldn't expect my own opinion on its potential for growth to be construed as equally as valid as one who is more schooled in the area. If I simply dismissed this person's view, I may very well be missing out on key information. If I see some things wrong with their perspective based on something I am an expert in then I'd certainly feel a right to voice my point of view in defense, so to criticize potential examples of racism in the world seems fine, especially if one has some unique insight, but I would questionany complete dismissal of ideas based on one's own personal view of something one may not be an expert on and has been extensively studied.

In short, denying race off the cuff, as having anything to do with Lee's vehement support from many white fans does not seem like sufficient reason to convince one interested in getting to the bottom of Queenie's question.

[Edited by - PresIke on 03-27-2007 1:53 PM]

PresIke, you said that so well and left no grey areas ^5

Posted by playa2:

Posted by djsunyc:

at some subconcious level, i think race plays a part in people's opinions on various things. for some it's very important, for others not that important. but i just think it is a factor at some level.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 03-27-2007 1:02 PM]

come on spit it out DJ.

Back in the day when Joe Louis was boxing everyone of the black race was rooting for him to knock out any white boxer because of race relations in america was so strained.

Now with basketball it's a similar thought process. The league and fan base is looking for the next great white hope in pro ball since most of the players on the court are black.

thoughts

When i mentioned the example above people went crazy with comments, now when evil mentions it saying the same thing nobody said anyting.

MY point was that people give more props to people who look like them especially if they can play and are good .

That's not a crime to say it.... it's a reality!!!

Posted by King1:

OJ did it.

Posted by King1:

Pharezone my IQ dropped 10 points for reading your post. The kid cant dunk a ball and couldnt walk after Friday or sleep. You have no idea what the MRI said or what the doctor said. When more than one doctors says you shouldnt play and then some yahoo like you says he should what should he do? He will be back this year I can guarantee you that.

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by Bippity10:

"breaking news" People root for a player because of his color. I love the way we argue over the obvious. There are a lot of white people that like David because he is white. So what.

This has nothing to do with why David is a fan favorite. He is a favorite amongst black and white because of his effort. NYers love guys that give effort and focus upon the game. They love Balkman for the same reason. they loved Starks, Ewing, Oak and Spree for similar reasons. They were all black. What a ridiculous issue.

David gets the benefit of the doubt because he busts his ballse every game. Balk and Q and Craw all get the same benefit of the doubt(not sure if SAS is tryign to stir up controversy by saying fans are questioning these two). Eddie curry/Steve Francis etc could be stabbed in the eye by a pitch fork, the eye could be on the ground at the fans feet and they would still be questioned. One day Isiah will realize this as he continues to build this team. Focus on guys with effort and stop slamming these jokers down our throats.

I did not hear his comments but it seemed that he was stating that Lee was given a pass for not playing due to an injury that I guess SAS does not believe is serious. As I previously posted. I am the same way too. I was not aware that JC was taking hits for his injury. I do have an issue with if some fans would give Lee a pass based on his race as well as give him a pass because he hustle while on the court. Because players who put on that uniform had worst injuries found a way to get on the court. I guess it goes along the lines of being hurt versus being injuried. I give him credit for trying on Friday, I think he shut it down too soon though.

I don't think he's getting a pass because he's white or because he hustles. I think he's getting the BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT because he always plays hard. People are assuming he must be really hurt if he can't come out and play. It's similar to a person who works hard every day in the office and never misses a day. That one day they call in sick after the fourth of July you give them the benefit of the doubt. All the slackers you assume are faking it.

As for the injury. I get so sick of people trying to determine how injured a person is based on the name of the injury. I broke a bone in my leg and was able to play on it for a full season. I broke 4 bones in my hand and was able to continue to play an entire football season with it. I sprained my ankle in a basketball game and it destroyed my career and I still feel pain now when I play, almost 10 years later. Every injury is different. An inch of inflammation in an ankle in one direction could keep you out 6 weeks longer than if it was in the other direction. It's pointless to compare these injuries. SAS is doing it for ratings.

Posted by nixluva:

Having broken bones and having had a minor tho painful and debilitating back problem, I can tell you that the back stopped me cold. The broken bone was annoying, but the pain wasn't the same. If I wrapped my hand well enough I could still get out there and play, but my back tho. I just couldn't move. I can understand how blowing out the ligaments or tendons would be a bigger problem, than a broken bone. Bones actually heal pretty fast in some areas of the body. If you blowout an achilles tendon or a MCL in the Knee that's a long road back. From my knowledge the high ankle sprain or deep bruising to the muscle or bone is a tough one too. Like Plantar faciitis.