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Anybody Suprised By The Team Mailing It In?
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BlueSeats
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3/24/2007  6:21 PM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Queeniepop:

he is not great as a go-to guy, but we do have Crawford which NO ONE can question in the later stages of games.

Eddy and Marbury are supposed to the best players on this team. Regretfully, I disagree. I think the guys that are missing may be the guys. Seemingly, Jamal, Q and Lee can play with anyone on this team...evidently, Steph and Eddy cannot. Steph and Eddy really cannot play without 2 or all 3 of these guys.

I never had the chance to look at the "crunch time" numbers you posted on Jamal earlier. My intuition is that he's overrated. If you can, I'd like to take a look at those numbers.

I don't think you can infer that Jamal, Lee and Q are our "best players" from the stretch of games they have collectively missed. If you surround Wade with 4 members of a nursing home and they then win 1 of 5, it doesn't make Jones and Haslem 2 of the "best players" on that team. The only conclusion you can draw (from a very limited sample of games), is that the presence of all 3 together makes us a better team. Its hard even to say that 1 of them definitively has a positive impact. For instance, Lee and Q may have a considerable positive impact while Crawford may actually be a detriment, whose negative contribution is masked by the other 2. The rest of the year, with Lee and perhaps Q back, will be a better indication.


That's all very true and dictated by good logic, but I think the people in the Knicks organization believe that Crawford is a legitimate "glue" guy for the team. He seems to have good relations with everybody, and serves as a bridge between veterans and youth, and the Seattle connection and everyone else. Plus, he feeds Chubby in the post and can possibly play either backcourt position as well as anyone else we currently have, injuries considered.

Marbury has called JC his best friend on the team AND he's the guy Chubby calls when no one pays attention to him. Add in that Nate and Q share Seattle connections with him, and the coaches/GM like him, and you have a guy that's "important" to the team beyond his numbers.

How many other guys have gotten a primal scream out of Isiah and tears out of Marbury at the same time? Okay, other than Larry Brown.
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djsunyc
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3/24/2007  6:50 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Queeniepop:

he is not great as a go-to guy, but we do have Crawford which NO ONE can question in the later stages of games.

Eddy and Marbury are supposed to the best players on this team. Regretfully, I disagree. I think the guys that are missing may be the guys. Seemingly, Jamal, Q and Lee can play with anyone on this team...evidently, Steph and Eddy cannot. Steph and Eddy really cannot play without 2 or all 3 of these guys.

I never had the chance to look at the "crunch time" numbers you posted on Jamal earlier. My intuition is that he's overrated. If you can, I'd like to take a look at those numbers.

I don't think you can infer that Jamal, Lee and Q are our "best players" from the stretch of games they have collectively missed. If you surround Wade with 4 members of a nursing home and they then win 1 of 5, it doesn't make Jones and Haslem 2 of the "best players" on that team. The only conclusion you can draw (from a very limited sample of games), is that the presence of all 3 together makes us a better team. Its hard even to say that 1 of them definitively has a positive impact. For instance, Lee and Q may have a considerable positive impact while Crawford may actually be a detriment, whose negative contribution is masked by the other 2. The rest of the year, with Lee and perhaps Q back, will be a better indication.


That's all very true and dictated by good logic, but I think the people in the Knicks organization believe that Crawford is a legitimate "glue" guy for the team. He seems to have good relations with everybody, and serves as a bridge between veterans and youth, and the Seattle connection and everyone else. Plus, he feeds Chubby in the post and can possibly play either backcourt position as well as anyone else we currently have, injuries considered.

Marbury has called JC his best friend on the team AND he's the guy Chubby calls when no one pays attention to him. Add in that Nate and Q share Seattle connections with him, and the coaches/GM like him, and you have a guy that's "important" to the team beyond his numbers.

How many other guys have gotten a primal scream out of Isiah and tears out of Marbury at the same time? Okay, other than Larry Brown.

this is true. jamal is loved by the organization. he's loved by his teammates. and he's loved by isiah. the guy will probably be a knick for a while...at least as long as isiah is here b/c i don't think they would let isiah trade him.
highfivesucka
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3/24/2007  6:56 PM
i thought Q was from Chicago like Eddy
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BlueSeats
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3/24/2007  7:26 PM
Posted by highfivesucka:

i thought Q was from Chicago like Eddy


You're right. But I thought the Seattle/Washington connection went a bit farther than Jamal and Nate. Am I missing someone?
codeunknown
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3/24/2007  7:50 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Queeniepop:

he is not great as a go-to guy, but we do have Crawford which NO ONE can question in the later stages of games.

Eddy and Marbury are supposed to the best players on this team. Regretfully, I disagree. I think the guys that are missing may be the guys. Seemingly, Jamal, Q and Lee can play with anyone on this team...evidently, Steph and Eddy cannot. Steph and Eddy really cannot play without 2 or all 3 of these guys.

I never had the chance to look at the "crunch time" numbers you posted on Jamal earlier. My intuition is that he's overrated. If you can, I'd like to take a look at those numbers.

I don't think you can infer that Jamal, Lee and Q are our "best players" from the stretch of games they have collectively missed. If you surround Wade with 4 members of a nursing home and they then win 1 of 5, it doesn't make Jones and Haslem 2 of the "best players" on that team. The only conclusion you can draw (from a very limited sample of games), is that the presence of all 3 together makes us a better team. Its hard even to say that 1 of them definitively has a positive impact. For instance, Lee and Q may have a considerable positive impact while Crawford may actually be a detriment, whose negative contribution is masked by the other 2. The rest of the year, with Lee and perhaps Q back, will be a better indication.

Marbury has called JC his best friend on the team AND he's the guy Chubby calls when no one pays attention to him. Add in that Nate and Q share Seattle connections with him, and the coaches/GM like him, and you have a guy that's "important" to the team beyond his numbers.

How many other guys have gotten a primal scream out of Isiah and tears out of Marbury at the same time? Okay, other than Larry Brown.

I won't lie, there have been times that Jamal's gotten both a primal scream and tears out of me at the same time. Usually when the ball takes flight beyond 25 feet.

He's a likeable guy. And its great that he has a positive influence on the team. I think Jamal may very well be that "glue" guy off the court, but his decisions on the court leave me wondering frequently if we'd be better off with Jamal as team psychologist rather than 2 guard.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
BlueSeats
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3/24/2007  8:25 PM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Queeniepop:

he is not great as a go-to guy, but we do have Crawford which NO ONE can question in the later stages of games.

Eddy and Marbury are supposed to the best players on this team. Regretfully, I disagree. I think the guys that are missing may be the guys. Seemingly, Jamal, Q and Lee can play with anyone on this team...evidently, Steph and Eddy cannot. Steph and Eddy really cannot play without 2 or all 3 of these guys.

I never had the chance to look at the "crunch time" numbers you posted on Jamal earlier. My intuition is that he's overrated. If you can, I'd like to take a look at those numbers.

I don't think you can infer that Jamal, Lee and Q are our "best players" from the stretch of games they have collectively missed. If you surround Wade with 4 members of a nursing home and they then win 1 of 5, it doesn't make Jones and Haslem 2 of the "best players" on that team. The only conclusion you can draw (from a very limited sample of games), is that the presence of all 3 together makes us a better team. Its hard even to say that 1 of them definitively has a positive impact. For instance, Lee and Q may have a considerable positive impact while Crawford may actually be a detriment, whose negative contribution is masked by the other 2. The rest of the year, with Lee and perhaps Q back, will be a better indication.

Marbury has called JC his best friend on the team AND he's the guy Chubby calls when no one pays attention to him. Add in that Nate and Q share Seattle connections with him, and the coaches/GM like him, and you have a guy that's "important" to the team beyond his numbers.

How many other guys have gotten a primal scream out of Isiah and tears out of Marbury at the same time? Okay, other than Larry Brown.

I won't lie, there have been times that Jamal's gotten both a primal scream and tears out of me at the same time. Usually when the ball takes flight beyond 25 feet.

He's a likeable guy. And its great that he has a positive influence on the team. I think Jamal may very well be that "glue" guy off the court, but his decisions on the court leave me wondering frequently if we'd be better off with Jamal as team psychologist rather than 2 guard.


Well said, well said.

We're in such a strange predicament. Not only don't we have a legitimate franchise player, we don't even have a star or all-star.

Then, we have a contingent of "best players" (Marbury, Crawford, Curry) who we don't even know if they're an asset or a hindrance.

We have another contingent who we don't know if they're destined to be starters or bench (Crawford, lee, Balkman, Q.)

Then we have guys we don't even know which position they're best suited to play: Crawford, Marbury, Nate, Lee, Frye, Jeffries.

Other than our almost, but not quite, mediocre record that many herald as success, I'm kind of at a loss for what it is we do know about this team that is good? I mean what good do we have that we can count on and take to the bank?

I'll start: a double-double from Lee.

I'll throw in "good effort" from Malik, Balkman and Q, but I see no predictability to the outcome of that effort. For instance, Malik fouled out on good effort in 11 minutes.

I'm serious when I say this: Lee's double-double is the one good thing I'd be willing to bet on us accomplishing every time we play.

Everyone else is an inconsistent fugazy I'd sooner bet against.
codeunknown
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3/24/2007  9:50 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Queeniepop:

he is not great as a go-to guy, but we do have Crawford which NO ONE can question in the later stages of games.

Eddy and Marbury are supposed to the best players on this team. Regretfully, I disagree. I think the guys that are missing may be the guys. Seemingly, Jamal, Q and Lee can play with anyone on this team...evidently, Steph and Eddy cannot. Steph and Eddy really cannot play without 2 or all 3 of these guys.

I never had the chance to look at the "crunch time" numbers you posted on Jamal earlier. My intuition is that he's overrated. If you can, I'd like to take a look at those numbers.

I don't think you can infer that Jamal, Lee and Q are our "best players" from the stretch of games they have collectively missed. If you surround Wade with 4 members of a nursing home and they then win 1 of 5, it doesn't make Jones and Haslem 2 of the "best players" on that team. The only conclusion you can draw (from a very limited sample of games), is that the presence of all 3 together makes us a better team. Its hard even to say that 1 of them definitively has a positive impact. For instance, Lee and Q may have a considerable positive impact while Crawford may actually be a detriment, whose negative contribution is masked by the other 2. The rest of the year, with Lee and perhaps Q back, will be a better indication.

Marbury has called JC his best friend on the team AND he's the guy Chubby calls when no one pays attention to him. Add in that Nate and Q share Seattle connections with him, and the coaches/GM like him, and you have a guy that's "important" to the team beyond his numbers.

How many other guys have gotten a primal scream out of Isiah and tears out of Marbury at the same time? Okay, other than Larry Brown.

I won't lie, there have been times that Jamal's gotten both a primal scream and tears out of me at the same time. Usually when the ball takes flight beyond 25 feet.

He's a likeable guy. And its great that he has a positive influence on the team. I think Jamal may very well be that "glue" guy off the court, but his decisions on the court leave me wondering frequently if we'd be better off with Jamal as team psychologist rather than 2 guard.


Well said, well said.

We're in such a strange predicament. Not only don't we have a legitimate franchise player, we don't even have a star or all-star.

Then, we have a contingent of "best players" (Marbury, Crawford, Curry) who we don't even know if they're an asset or a hindrance.

We have another contingent who we don't know if they're destined to be starters or bench (Crawford, lee, Balkman, Q.)

Then we have guys we don't even know which position they're best suited to play: Crawford, Marbury, Nate, Lee, Frye, Jeffries.

Other than our almost, but not quite, mediocre record that many herald as success, I'm kind of at a loss for what it is we do know about this team that is good? I mean what good do we have that we can count on and take to the bank?

I'll start: a double-double from Lee.

I'll throw in "good effort" from Malik, Balkman and Q, but I see no predictability to the outcome of that effort. For instance, Malik fouled out on good effort in 11 minutes.

I'm serious when I say this: Lee's double-double is the one good thing I'd be willing to bet on us accomplishing every time we play.

Everyone else is an inconsistent fugazy I'd sooner bet against.

I agree 100%. The only thing predictable about Malik's "good effort" is a whistle and a substitution.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
TrueBlue
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3/24/2007  10:48 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Queeniepop:

he is not great as a go-to guy, but we do have Crawford which NO ONE can question in the later stages of games.

Eddy and Marbury are supposed to the best players on this team. Regretfully, I disagree. I think the guys that are missing may be the guys. Seemingly, Jamal, Q and Lee can play with anyone on this team...evidently, Steph and Eddy cannot. Steph and Eddy really cannot play without 2 or all 3 of these guys.

I never had the chance to look at the "crunch time" numbers you posted on Jamal earlier. My intuition is that he's overrated. If you can, I'd like to take a look at those numbers.

I don't think you can infer that Jamal, Lee and Q are our "best players" from the stretch of games they have collectively missed. If you surround Wade with 4 members of a nursing home and they then win 1 of 5, it doesn't make Jones and Haslem 2 of the "best players" on that team. The only conclusion you can draw (from a very limited sample of games), is that the presence of all 3 together makes us a better team. Its hard even to say that 1 of them definitively has a positive impact. For instance, Lee and Q may have a considerable positive impact while Crawford may actually be a detriment, whose negative contribution is masked by the other 2. The rest of the year, with Lee and perhaps Q back, will be a better indication.


That's all very true and dictated by good logic, but I think the people in the Knicks organization believe that Crawford is a legitimate "glue" guy for the team. He seems to have good relations with everybody, and serves as a bridge between veterans and youth, and the Seattle connection and everyone else. Plus, he feeds Chubby in the post and can possibly play either backcourt position as well as anyone else we currently have, injuries considered.

Marbury has called JC his best friend on the team AND he's the guy Chubby calls when no one pays attention to him. Add in that Nate and Q share Seattle connections with him, and the coaches/GM like him, and you have a guy that's "important" to the team beyond his numbers.

How many other guys have gotten a primal scream out of Isiah and tears out of Marbury at the same time? Okay, other than Larry Brown.

this is true. jamal is loved by the organization. he's loved by his teammates. and he's loved by isiah. the guy will probably be a knick for a while...at least as long as isiah is here b/c i don't think they would let isiah trade him.


Why did ISAYUGH try to trade him to Denver(Miller or K-Mart trade), Orlando(Francis trade), Seattle(Lewis trade), New Jersey(Carter trade), the past 2 seasons if this is the case?
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Anji
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3/25/2007  3:03 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Queeniepop:

he is not great as a go-to guy, but we do have Crawford which NO ONE can question in the later stages of games.

Eddy and Marbury are supposed to the best players on this team. Regretfully, I disagree. I think the guys that are missing may be the guys. Seemingly, Jamal, Q and Lee can play with anyone on this team...evidently, Steph and Eddy cannot. Steph and Eddy really cannot play without 2 or all 3 of these guys.

I never had the chance to look at the "crunch time" numbers you posted on Jamal earlier. My intuition is that he's overrated. If you can, I'd like to take a look at those numbers.

I don't think you can infer that Jamal, Lee and Q are our "best players" from the stretch of games they have collectively missed. If you surround Wade with 4 members of a nursing home and they then win 1 of 5, it doesn't make Jones and Haslem 2 of the "best players" on that team. The only conclusion you can draw (from a very limited sample of games), is that the presence of all 3 together makes us a better team. Its hard even to say that 1 of them definitively has a positive impact. For instance, Lee and Q may have a considerable positive impact while Crawford may actually be a detriment, whose negative contribution is masked by the other 2. The rest of the year, with Lee and perhaps Q back, will be a better indication.

Marbury has called JC his best friend on the team AND he's the guy Chubby calls when no one pays attention to him. Add in that Nate and Q share Seattle connections with him, and the coaches/GM like him, and you have a guy that's "important" to the team beyond his numbers.

How many other guys have gotten a primal scream out of Isiah and tears out of Marbury at the same time? Okay, other than Larry Brown.

I won't lie, there have been times that Jamal's gotten both a primal scream and tears out of me at the same time. Usually when the ball takes flight beyond 25 feet.

He's a likeable guy. And its great that he has a positive influence on the team. I think Jamal may very well be that "glue" guy off the court, but his decisions on the court leave me wondering frequently if we'd be better off with Jamal as team psychologist rather than 2 guard.


Well said, well said.

We're in such a strange predicament. Not only don't we have a legitimate franchise player, we don't even have a star or all-star.

Then, we have a contingent of "best players" (Marbury, Crawford, Curry) who we don't even know if they're an asset or a hindrance.

We have another contingent who we don't know if they're destined to be starters or bench (Crawford, lee, Balkman, Q.)

Then we have guys we don't even know which position they're best suited to play: Crawford, Marbury, Nate, Lee, Frye, Jeffries.

Other than our almost, but not quite, mediocre record that many herald as success, I'm kind of at a loss for what it is we do know about this team that is good? I mean what good do we have that we can count on and take to the bank?

I'll start: a double-double from Lee.

I'll throw in "good effort" from Malik, Balkman and Q, but I see no predictability to the outcome of that effort. For instance, Malik fouled out on good effort in 11 minutes.

I'm serious when I say this: Lee's double-double is the one good thing I'd be willing to bet on us accomplishing every time we play.

Everyone else is an inconsistent fugazy I'd sooner bet against.

YOu are still looking at a team with out a SuperStar, so I don't see the point in throwing players under the bus who are trying to cover. Jamal/Eddie/Frye/Nate/Ect are not the same players if Marbury was really a player they could play off of, instead of try to be better then.
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3/25/2007  9:41 AM
Posted by nixluva:

AGAIN you guys just don't get it. This isn't some team that's got it all figured out and can run on auto pilot without it's best players. We're trying to get to that point, but you all know that this team isn't at that level yet. Steph was on a roll and was putting up inflated #'s, but in the last few games his shooting % has dipped and he's clearly laboring out there. I'd advise you all to go look at his game logs and check his production and minutes. The guy have been keeping us afloat for a while, but he needs help and the guys we have left are not our most dependable guys. That was Q, Lee and Jamal. Which is why those guys played major minutes for this team. In fact the most minutes of any players on this team.

You guys clearly aren't getting any of this. Have your fun with this now, but it's just convenient that you get to blast this team for losing when they're not anywhere near full strength. Indy went into an 10+ game skid with their injuries and they're supposed to be a much better team than us. It can happen to any team. NJ, MIA. But it's not supposed to happen to the Knicks. I'm just hoping they can pull it together and stop the bleeding. We've got some winnable games coming up and hopefully they'll get a few of them and get back on track.

So explain to me why an injured and young Portland team was able to autopilot there way to a victory on our home court without their star when we still had 3 of them?
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Bippity10
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3/25/2007  9:51 AM
Nixluva: Once again in your haste, you are the one that doesn't get it. Don't mesh me in with the others and listen to what I AM SAYING. I have no problem with the losing. You lose 3 players then you are going to struggle. But I have a problem with a significant effort drop off since the day of the extension. You don't need time to get effort out of players. It should happen every night.
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KnicksSince88
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3/26/2007  2:42 AM
The Cavaliers are gonna win 50 games this season. The Knicks are a run of the mill NBA team who is missing their top 2 rebounders, their 2nd leading scorer, their 4th leading scorer, and their 5th leading scorer. Not to mention this game was played on the 2nd night of a back to back. Anyone who thought the Knicks were winning that game was nuts.

As for the margin of defeat? Blowouts happen in the NBA. Especially when good teams play average teams who are depleted by injury. The only game that the Knicks lost this season by more then Friday night was the Denver brawl (23 pt loss). Its not like this team gets blown out every night, its gonna happen occasionally.

You can choose to think they mailed it in. I'll go with the far more logical approach that the Cavaliers are simply a better basketball team then the Knicks, had them on their home court, with the Knicks playing a back to back, and missing 3 key players, with the Knicks due for a good ass kicking

[Edited by - knickssince88 on 03-26-2007 05:04 AM]
misterearl
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3/26/2007  7:50 AM
what KnicksSince 88 said

and what Marbury said:

>>Marbury is confident the team can refocus its energy, and four of the next six games are at home.

"I think we still have a chance," he said. "We're not out of it. We know what's at stake, and we know what we have to do."

However, Marbury conceded the recent flu bug - which even sidelined assistant Phil Ford - is "crazy."

"It's a tough time right now for this to happen," Marbury said, "but you can't control something like that."

Damn, why can't Matbury just shut his freakin' mouth?
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Bippity10
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3/26/2007  1:53 PM
This team just needs to stop talkign about the injuries. Go out and play hard and let the rest take care of itself. It's time to man up and stop the excuses. The fans will judge you fairly if you lose excuse free, but you will get no slack if you continue to talk about this.

The habits of last year are slowly creeping back. Crying about time and how we are being used. Not giving playoff intensity effort when needed. And making excuses. We as an organization cannot accept this. We must rid ourselves of this nonsense.
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Bippity10
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3/26/2007  6:35 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Can we at least be fair about this? I mean at least TRY TO BE FREAKIN reasonable. The team has hit the wall. Not the whole team, just the guys left who can really make a difference. Without Steph playing like superman, this team doesn't have a chance without Lee, Q and Jamal. We've been riding the few guys we have left for so long and they finally are breaking down. It was bound to happen sooner or later, if we didn't get healthy.

All we can hope for is that we can re-collect themselves. The big loss is actually a blessing in disguise. Close tough losses are much more debilitating. Steph needs a break to re-energize. I just feel bad that we had to have all these injuries when we could least afford to have them. Unless Steph can get a boost soon, this team is gonna continue its freefall.

Nixluva: FYI this is a direct quote from you back in August when I was asking the question if injuries and team strife may hurt us this year.

"From start to finish in games this team will have NO SCRUBS on the floor. Even at the end of our bench we have capable players. We're as deep as any team in the league and I think by the end of this season, no one will want to play us. We'll be that dangerous. We've got the Scorers, Defenders, Size, Speed and Youth. You can see that Isiah is excited about this team. I think the players will be too."

---Nixluva

I was just curious what happened to our depth. I'm pretty sure it better come to play tonight without excuses. Those that criticize our team for not perfroming over the past 6 games have more beleif in the depth of this team than you seem to. Apparently you didn't beleive this statement when you actually made it.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 03-26-2007 6:36 PM]
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Allanfan20
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3/26/2007  6:46 PM
The guy have been keeping us afloat for a while, but he needs help and the guys we have left are not our most dependable guys. That was Q, Lee and Jamal. Which is why those guys played major minutes for this team. In fact the most minutes of any players on this team.

Maybe it's a problem that those 3 guys are our most dependable players, and why we were so many game below .500 when we DID have them.
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