where is their balance though? they have 4 PG's who don't know how to run an offense in West, Rondo, Telfair & Ray... they lack any real orchestrator on the floor & no real depth in their frontcourt... Gomes is an undersized PF that doesn't rebound particularly well... Perkins has been a big disappointment... Wally hasn't made any appreciable impact on that team, & the other role players they have are non-factors.

don't get me wrong, i'm not saying they don't have talent... they have a good young low post player who looks like he'll be a star in Jefferson, & a superstar scorer in Pierce, while Greene looks like he'll be a really nice player, as i said going into the draft that year when i said he'd be the best talent to come out that season (i may be wrong about that one cuz Bynum looks like he'll be the real deal, but it's still too early to tell for sure on that one)... but it's going to take time for them to learn how to play together just like it took the Bulls.

about the pick, OK, say they take Durant... so he comes in & plays the PF at 6'9" & 225? he'll be getting muscled down low on a nightly basis... he'd be much more better suited as a SF... so that means you have to move Pierce to the 2... so what happens to Wally? he goes to the bench? what about Greene? where will he get his chance to become that star he has the potential to be?... ok, so Ainge will probably try & trade Wally & the $25 mil left on his deal... who's he going to get for a guy coming off injury making that type of change? the options are severely limited... plus the fact that the Celtics are capped out next season regardless of what they do, so don't expect any impact FA's in their future anytime soon either.

that team is still very young & needs several years to grow together... i don't think it's unreasonable to think the Knicks can improve during that time... who has the better longterm chance of winning a title? who the hell knows? things can happen, injuries to key players, sleeper draft picks can turn out to be stars, high draft picks can turn out to be busts... u just never know... you can put together the greatest roster ever assembled on paper & still not a win a title... there's a lot of factors at play that can influence the future 1 way or the other... the Knicks are strapped by their cap, yes, that's common knowledge, but they also have some talented young players that i can stack up to what the Celtics have... talent wise Curry & Jefferson are very close... 1 does things better than the other in different categories... D Lee is a more polished player than any other young player the Celtics have including Gerald Greene... & Channing, Balkman & Mardy project to be just as good playing their roles as Rondo, Allen or any of the other young kids the Celtics got... the differences aren't that extreme like you want to make it out to be



[Edited by - TMS on 03-01-2007 12:07 PM]

TMS,

One major thing your forgetting about the Knicks. The possible lottery pick swap not to mention or limited resources that will seriously limit us in making a possible major free-agent signing. Whereas Boston is almost guranteed a top 5 pick right now and I'm pretty sure they have major cap space.

Posted by MS:

They lost paul pierce for the entire first half of the season, lost Wally for the same.

You take the cake for the dumbest poster of the day:

I disagree the Celtics are bigger disappointments. Jefferson has taken a huge step backwards. Green shouldn't be taking this long to develop. They were suppose to be better than this already according to Bill Simmons.

Jefferson has taken a huge step back?

Eddy Curry at 22 16.1pts 5.3rbs 0.9blks
Al Jefferson at 22 14.5pts 10.9rbs 1.5blks

(Feb stats 16pts 12rbs 1.8blks 1.4ass 2.1tos) AL
(Feb stats 20pts 7.5rbs 0.5blks 1.1ass 3.3tos) EC

If they get the number two they take Durant, who is the best player and college and put him up front with jefferson....

I think at this point its pretty close who you would rather have, especially when you compare physical condition.

Green is old for being a a second year player, but a kid with no college under his belt averaging (9.4pts on 44% shooting isn't bad)

If you could trade roster right now with the celtics would you, i think the answer is yes, they have a good bench players in rondo, west, and gomes......an allstar in pierce, a high lottery pick, greene and jefferson, had Ainge just taken randy foye they would be in business, but this team has options because they have players other than DLEE that teams actually want.

And no one is defending McCale half of the nba gms don't have any idea what they are doing and its a wonder they have jobs, Weisbrod, Babcock, Knight, King, Baylor, Thomas, McChale, Layden how any of these guys was ever employed to make decisions is beyong me.

Sorry, MS but I am holding Jefferson to a higher standard. I thought this guy was was the face of the Celtics franchise in his rookie year. I expected more from him but I apologize for those who just follows stats. I watch the games, I don't live on stats. Why don't you post the opposition points in the paint. Watch him against the Hawks, Nets, Raptors, Bulls, Knicks and Pistons. While he is getting more touches and scoring more, he has given up more points as well. I thought Jefferson would be better this season offensively and defensively than the last. That's like saying Marbury is a HOF player because he gets you 20 and 8 but fail to mention that the opposition is scoring too easy on him.

Posted by Bonn1997:

[quote]Posted by bitty41:

TMS,

One major thing your forgetting about the Knicks. The possible lottery pick swap not to mention or limited resources that will seriously limit us in making a possible major free-agent signing. Whereas Boston is almost guranteed a top 5 pick right now and I'm pretty sure they have major cap space.

the possible lottery swap w/who? the Bulls... what does that have to do w/the Celtics? & i already addressed the cap situation... you're wrong btw... BOTH teams are capped out next season.

philly is 10-9 over the last 19 games.

they dumped iverson. they dumped webber.

brought in andre and let iguodala be featured.

they have 3 #1's on deck.

yeah, looks like lb may know a thing or two about building a team.

Posted by djsunyc:

philly is 10-9 over the last 19 games.

they dumped iverson. they dumped webber.

brought in andre and let iguodala be featured.

they have 3 #1's on deck.

yeah, looks like lb may know a thing or two about building a team.

I said it when Larry was hired by Philly, the Sixers will win a playoff series before the Knicks will.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by MS:

Without question

We have already proven that big quick athletic players kill this roster.

Teams that you can expect to be better than us next year

Celtics (Green, Jefferson, Pierce, draft pick), Bucks (cap room, Redd), Bobcats (The will figure things out and spend the money), Nets (can't beat them), Heat), Pistons, Cavs, Wizards, Pacers, Bulls, Raptors (Bosh, and Anrdres)

And the Hawks keep getting better and their two best players are better than ours and childress is underrated....

Seriously whats going to happen to make us better? Other than Lee coming into camp with an outside game which i bet happens.

Balkman needs to develop a jumper, q needs to stay healthy, marbury's knees need to hold up, Frye I don't know what he needs, Crawford practices his game in the street he isn't going to get better he is what he is, Curry is he going to be in shape, crash the boards? Jefferies is he going to learn how to shoot? Jerome James magically lose 50 pounds?

We are going to have to rely on our midlevel, give me a break! Our draft pick, not likely

Curry needs to learn how to jump and put his hands up. I am with Skiles on this one. Curry defense is ridculous. The sad part is that you can tell he is capable of playing it but is not focus on doing so. That is frustrating. Same with Frye. One problem with the Knicks is that their help defense is so horrible. Guards particularlly Crawford allow guys to take them off the dribble to easy. Curry is too focus on trying to stay out of foul trouble it crazy. That is very evident. That coaching staff should just challenge the officials and tell those guys to bump and grind until the foul calling gets ridculous. Let the officials adjust to your intensity on defense.

seriously look at detroit and what they are allowed to do. it's because they've established themselves as a physical defensive team, they can get away with much more than other teams. same with Chicago. the first few games will be foul athons but eventually they will get the idea. but it has to start with the players, they have to take that first step and start getting in peoples faces.




[Edited by - highfivesucka on 03-01-2007 2:34 PM]

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by MS:

They lost paul pierce for the entire first half of the season, lost Wally for the same.

You take the cake for the dumbest poster of the day:

I disagree the Celtics are bigger disappointments. Jefferson has taken a huge step backwards. Green shouldn't be taking this long to develop. They were suppose to be better than this already according to Bill Simmons.

Jefferson has taken a huge step back?

Eddy Curry at 22 16.1pts 5.3rbs 0.9blks
Al Jefferson at 22 14.5pts 10.9rbs 1.5blks

(Feb stats 16pts 12rbs 1.8blks 1.4ass 2.1tos) AL
(Feb stats 20pts 7.5rbs 0.5blks 1.1ass 3.3tos) EC

If they get the number two they take Durant, who is the best player and college and put him up front with jefferson....

I think at this point its pretty close who you would rather have, especially when you compare physical condition.

Green is old for being a a second year player, but a kid with no college under his belt averaging (9.4pts on 44% shooting isn't bad)

If you could trade roster right now with the celtics would you, i think the answer is yes, they have a good bench players in rondo, west, and gomes......an allstar in pierce, a high lottery pick, greene and jefferson, had Ainge just taken randy foye they would be in business, but this team has options because they have players other than DLEE that teams actually want.

And no one is defending McCale half of the nba gms don't have any idea what they are doing and its a wonder they have jobs, Weisbrod, Babcock, Knight, King, Baylor, Thomas, McChale, Layden how any of these guys was ever employed to make decisions is beyong me.

Sorry, MS but I am holding Jefferson to a higher standard. I thought this guy was was the face of the Celtics franchise in his rookie year. I expected more from him but I apologize for those who just follows stats. I watch the games, I don't live on stats. Why don't you post the opposition points in the paint. Watch him against the Hawks, Nets, Raptors, Bulls, Knicks and Pistons. While he is getting more touches and scoring more, he has given up more points as well. I thought Jefferson would be better this season offensively and defensively than the last. That's like saying Marbury is a HOF player because he gets you 20 and 8 but fail to mention that the opposition is scoring too easy on him.

First off Jefferson has for many games playing without a true center along side of him. So he's been playing out of position. I also think your analogy is way off base.

I think the cap is around 50 million, so no, the Celtics wont be able to sign free agents without an MLE this Summer. That draft picks is gonna turn out to be just as good though.

Posted by TMS:



completely agree... this Knicks team hasn't done a good job of rebuilding, but to say the worst team in the league is somehow better off than we are is a stretch at best (unless of course they get Oden, then i can see them having a nice future ahead of them... still, the Celtics getting Oden has no bearing on what this organization has done or not done as a franchise, so getting aggravated over it is pointless... if the Bulls end up w/Oden, then i'll be pissed along w/the rest of you, but there's very little chance of that happening
... it took the Bulls several years for that young core to finally show some signs of life... you have to expect it will take the Knicks' young players a similar amount of time to gel as well & the Celtics even younger squad longer than that

I never said the celtics were better off than us. ainge has done a bad job of rebuilding there imo. although they might be. just because we have a better record than them now doesnt mean anything. but Im not really familiar with their situation so I can't say right now.

also your bulls example is off, but I dont feel like going into the specifics. oh yeah and if you think it takes 7 years for a team to gell your waaay of base. I dont know of a franchise that ever even kept the roster remotely the same for that long.

[Edited by - slimpack on 03-01-2007 5:13 PM]

Posted by SlimPack:

Posted by TMS:



completely agree... this Knicks team hasn't done a good job of rebuilding, but to say the worst team in the league is somehow better off than we are is a stretch at best (unless of course they get Oden, then i can see them having a nice future ahead of them... still, the Celtics getting Oden has no bearing on what this organization has done or not done as a franchise, so getting aggravated over it is pointless... if the Bulls end up w/Oden, then i'll be pissed along w/the rest of you, but there's very little chance of that happening
... it took the Bulls several years for that young core to finally show some signs of life... you have to expect it will take the Knicks' young players a similar amount of time to gel as well & the Celtics even younger squad longer than that

I never said the celtics were better off than us. ainge has done a bad job of rebuilding there imo. although they might be. just because we have a better record than them now doesnt mean anything. but Im not really familiar with their situation so I can't say right now.

also your bulls example is off, but I dont feel like going into the specifics. oh yeah and if you think it takes 7 years for a team to gell your waaay of base. I dont know of a franchise that ever even kept the roster remotely the same for that long.

Slim, please explain to me how i'm way off base on that assumption that it takes several years for a completely reconstructed team of young talent to gel... what historical examples do you have to draw from where a GM completely tore down the franchise, built it back up w/young talent, & then got them to be a contender again in the span of less than 6-7 years?

[Edited by - TMS on 03-01-2007 5:35 PM]