Posted by nixluva:



DID I SAY I WAS THE MOST PASSIONATE KNICKS FAN? Read it again you moron!!! I was saying that nothing he says to me is gonna effect how I feel about the Knicks. My comments about my personal experiences had nothing to do with how you or anyone else feels about the team. I was merely trying to express how long and deep my feelings for the team ran.

Oh please, your comments were borderline Al Gore.
"What's my agenda? Just that I want the Knicks to succeed? You can't touch me and my passion for the Knicks, with your negativity. In the early years before cable was even available in my area I used to listen to the Knicks on the radio religiously. You think my passion for this team and it's success can be questioned? I don't think so. Anyone that knows me knows how passionate I am about the Knicks."

I really don't think you get it at all. It seems as if you're taking everying I say as a personal attack against YOU. I never mentioned you specifically, but if you feel that i'm talking about YOU then perhaps you're guilty of some of the things that i've been saying. Why do you feel it so necessary to respond, if what i'm saying doesn't reflect your opinions. If you don't make fun of the team or Isiah like someone who is a fan of another team would, then why are you angry with me?

Uh pal, you're the one who has called me our previously by NAME, on NUMEROUS occasions, so YEAH, I pretty much think you are talking to me. I'm sick of it.

FAN - Does this word describe your feelings for the team?

fan:
–noun
an enthusiastic devotee, follower, or admirer of a sport, pastime, celebrity, etc.: a baseball fan; a great fan of Charlie Chaplin.
[Origin: 1885–90, Americanism; short for fanatic]

—Synonyms supporter, enthusiast, partisan, booster, addict.

fanatic:
–noun
1. a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics.

Obviously I am a fanatic of this team if I still watch them with how crappy they've been the last 8 years. But that none of that matters to you, only when myself or other posters rip Isiah Thomas for doing a **** job as a general manager is when start pulling the fan card, along with some others posters.

Posted by BlueSeats:

'Luva, some fans want to love their team's players, some fans want their team to have players they can love. The latter requires something from the players, the former doesn't. That's a large part of it right there.

From those in the former camp I've heard such "love" for our players that they expected Lampe to be the next Dirk, Sweetney to be the next Elton Brand, Marbury to be a leader and the best PG in the league, Ariza to be the next Pippen, Frye to be the next Duncan, etc. They'd say "they're our players. I love our guys, so I love them. Is it so wrong for me to want our guys to be great?"

Their desires leads their expectations. That's fine, it makes them great fans... but often lousy analysts.

It works the other way too. Guys from the latter camp may have initially hated getting say LJ, with a bad back and a selfish reputation, until LJ did the things to EARN their love, then they embraced him wholeheartedly. Some may have hated trading warrior Oakley for brittle Camby, until Camby proved himself as an impact player, then they embraced him wholeheartedly.

Where those fans early negative judgments wrong? Perhaps, but so what, they wanted what was best for their team and were pleasantly surprised when it worked out. Why do you find that so much worse? Because sometimes they will be right, and these days, more often than not, they will be?

I think the real problem today comes from increased understanding of the business of the game. From message boards, sports shows, and the quantity of information available on internet, average fans are FAR better educated than ever about the CBA, the salary cap, the luxury tax, player's salaries, draft positioning, college prospects, GM's histories, etc.

Looking at a team's past, present and future is a whole different ball game than it used to be. Clyde always talks about the "evolution of the game" and he talks about the mobility/agility of bigmen. Well the evolution of the game for fans is teenagers who understand the intricacies of the collective bargaining agreement, player's contracts, the salary cap, the luxury tax threshold, gate proceeds and profitability, undermined coaches, sexual harassment suits, etc. Fans have a much bigger window through which to view their team than ever before. These days it's not so simple for some to just show up and cheer, like perhaps it once was.

I understand those who yearn for simpler days, but there's no turning back the hands of time. Some of you want some sort of credit for being able to tune all that information all out, to wear blinders and love your team, well...blindly. Fine, "kudos to you guys," if that's what you need to hear. But others have tasted tasted the forbidden fruit (knowledge) and don't want to pretend otherwise. They'll pick and chose what they do and don't love about how their team is run and how it performs.

I really think there is a contingent who want their message board to be, not a place where all things Knicks can be discussed, but a place they can come to get themselves pumped up about their team and to titillate each other into some state of delirium. Like an opium house or a religious revival meeting. They want their collective powers of enthusiasm and belief to cast out doubt and take them higher and higher; and anyone who interferes with the process is a real downer and doesn't belong.

I really hope there will someday be such a board for those who need that, but I also hope this wont be it.

Great post Blue, I think you hit everything right on the head.

Posted by misterearl:


But this ain't about individuals, or agendas. So there is absolutely no reason to start pointing accusing fingers at the authors of any post. Moreso the CONTENT of the posts is what should be discussed.

Earl, I hope I didn't give the impression that you bug me, or it's personal, cuz you don't and it ain't. But when you say it should be about the content of posts, I agree. But more often than not I find the content of your posts are about someone's posts and not the Knicks.

Someone might say Crawford has to go, and you don't even discuss Crawford, you'll ask why they can't support their players, or ask them to list the 5 characteristics they most want in a player. The consistency of this approach over time reads like a criticism of posters credibility as FANS with no concern for the legitimacy of their analytical concerns.

I mean who are we trying to kid? For you, all Knicks are created equally and you want all fans to embrace them unconditionally. You've said as much. ALL your posts are about that, and little to nothing more. It's cute on you, you wear it well, but sometimes it's a distraction from deeper measures of performance, objectives and evaluations. That's all.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Oh please, your comments were borderline Al Gore.

Man I don't even know what that is supposed to mean. I think your reading comprehension is not up to snuff!

I said:
"You can't touch me and my passion for the Knicks, with your negativity."

Apparently this is the phrase that seems to have been misunderstood. If you note I said you can't touch me and my passion with your negativity. By this I mean that None of the negative remarks will weaken my love for this team. This is not a comparison of my passion for the team vs. yours or anyone elses. Just a statement of my resolve as a fan.

To anyone who actually takes a remark personally without my naming them specifically, I think that's some insecurity on your part. How else is that to be interpreted if i'm speaking in general to the forum. Just because I may have addressed you or anyone in the past on some other thread, you can't assume eternally that I'm always speaking directly to you. Now if I make a direct comment to you and mention you by name then YES, that's a direct comment to you alone. Otherwise I think some of you are being oversensitive or perhaps i've struck a nerve and you actually do think that way.

>>Someone might say Crawford has to go, and you don't even discuss Crawford, you'll ask why they can't support their players, or ask them to list the 5 characteristics they most want in a player. The consistency of this approach over time reads like a criticism of posters credibility as FANS with no concern for the legitimacy of their analytical concerns.


Blueseats - you are correct about one thing, I do press to find what people base their opinion on. However, I do not give all Knicks a free pass. None of them are perfect, I've mentioned that on several occassions. They are ALL flawed. But to the extent that one must nitpick their deficiencies daily and not see the team improvement, makes me wonder why some are that joyous when the Knicks lose?


With regard to credibility, I take the djsu approach... ain't NOBODY "credible". We are just a bunch of guys around a bar talkin' ball.


I support anyone who wears orange and blue. I support the Knicks rain or shine. The individual critique I leave to the experts who know much more about basketball than I do. If a player has an off night, or a slow period, I'm not rushing to the trade checker to pretend there is another team with a ready-made deal that improves the Knicks instantly. It don't work that way in reality.

Building a franchise is a painful, gradual process that requires years of investment and seasons of building trust.

Does "Pure Knicks Love" require the patience of a Saint?

As a long-time Knicks fan... if your only criteria for success is a championship...you damn skippy.

[Edited by - misterearl on 02-25-2007 4:23 PM]

Basketball Jones - who needs harmony?

The universe thrives on tension and chaos. Yin and Yang. Like the twins. Salt and Pepa, like the rappin' honeys. Maris and Mantle... Mays and McCovey... Clyde and The Pearl. Spree and Allan Houston...

"Site logo" my butt. It is a theme, or a sub-heading, a description...

But what do I know?

I'll settle this argument once and for all... Here's the new banner.

Posted by babyKnicks:

lol...well, I had the why does frye suck so bad thread title, but you have to admit, between dodging islefan personal attacks and stfu's, I just lost it with the philly loss.

But, you guys know me and what I'm about...I'm a knicks lova to the end.

ps we're making the playoffs
pps toronto ain't that good.

Just goes to show how silly these little witch hunts are when even babyhoss isn't considered enough of a lover.

pure knicks love is being a ****in fool and wasting your life watching these ****s