I don't think you can say any gm wouldn't do anything in this league in all honesty, people get fleeced all the time....

The Hawks example #1
-They need a pg in the worst way they pass on Paul, Williams, Felton, and Foye even Roye in a two year span
-They also found a way to do a sign in trade for no reason to get JJ when they had the money to sign him, the suns were not matching, gave up Diaw and a number 1 pick

The Raptors-
Vince Carter hello where were you on that one, so lets not say anything is fantasy, evaluate and don't dismiss, aaron williams, eric williams and alonzo mourning all of which still were signed and they gave up an allstar

The Lakers
-Caron Bulter for Kwame Brown?

Anyone willing to trade for Channing Frye last year
-Odom, Boozer, etc

The Bulls
Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler
Jalen Rose for Ron Artest, Brad Miller, Ron Mercer

There is a gm on the cusp of doing something stupid at any second......
KNIGHT
KING
MCHALE
AINGE
ISIAH
-on the cusp of moving Lee with Penny to the blazers but that one was rejected by NASH
-was there anyone dumb enough to take steve francis

why then didn't they make the trade w/another team like the Blazers, who had an expiring deal in Magloire? or the Magic, who i'm sure would've loved to add Pierce to their roster in exchange for Grant Hill's expiring, a pick & maybe Darko? you don't think that would've been a better option for Boston to look into than trading him to the Knicks? those are just off the top of my head too... there are other teams w/expiring contracts out there, but nothing got done... that should tell you something... come on man, get real.

Posted by islesfan:

Rose's expiring couldn't have been used to get a useful piece?

You can't win answering this question. It was bad to buy him out because now you dont have a valuable asset. But then if we still had it, whatever trade isiah used it for would be getting ripped apart.



[Edited by - jaydh on 02-26-2007 3:32 PM]

Posted by Solace:

Posted by MS:

I don't think you can say any gm wouldn't do anything in this league in all honesty, people get fleeced all the time....

The Hawks example #1
-They need a pg in the worst way they pass on Paul, Williams, Felton, and Foye even Roye in a two year span
-They also found a way to do a sign in trade for no reason to get JJ when they had the money to sign him, the suns were not matching, gave up Diaw and a number 1 pick

The Raptors-
Vince Carter hello where were you on that one, so lets not say anything is fantasy, evaluate and don't dismiss, aaron williams, eric williams and alonzo mourning all of which still were signed and they gave up an allstar

The Lakers
-Caron Bulter for Kwame Brown?

Anyone willing to trade for Channing Frye last year
-Odom, Boozer, etc

The Bulls
Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler
Jalen Rose for Ron Artest, Brad Miller, Ron Mercer

There is a gm on the cusp of doing something stupid at any second......
KNIGHT
KING
MCHALE
AINGE
ISIAH
-on the cusp of moving Lee with Penny to the blazers but that one was rejected by NASH
-was there anyone dumb enough to take steve francis

Great points. There have been trades made in the last five years that most of us never thought would, could or should happen. Yet GMs did them. All you need is one GM to over or under-value a particular player or agenda and you have the makings of a fleecing about to happen.

so you're hedging your bets on being able to fleece a moronic GM of his most desirable players for a collection of highly inferior players? i know you guys hate Isiah, but even he's not that stupid... unless all your deals are going to be with Billy Knight, i don't see where you think Isiah would've been able to fleece some moronic GM for that package... McHale hasn't traded KG to anyone all these years, so assuming he would've traded him to us for that collection is pure nonsense... same goes for Ainge w/Pierce


[Edited by - TMS on 02-26-2007 3:37 PM]

My point, which you fail to look at is there are a number of terrible gms, and i would say a good majority that are in over there head or just got their position because they played the game.

I am not counting on anything i am counting on what i know, don't make long term signings on marginal talent, bring in mentally tough hard workers, and don't take back players with a history of losing, and if you have an expiring contract you don't buy it out you wait.

Lets say that your the sixers, do you trade iverson to the knicks for a combination of crawford and frye or frye and an expiring contract and a draft pick ahead of the deal they got from denver, i think there is a good chance the knicks are in the discussion because of an expiring deal. Can you use your expiring to get a good player and then maybe package that player for assets. I think that you can

Isiah doesn't do anything well, coach, teach etc, he simply help unite this 25 win dynamic unit you see before you by basically saying everyone is against us and wants us to fail, your careers are on the line, we need to play together, and you know what they have played like ****, gotten blow off the floor, lost to ****ty teams when they needed victories are careless and unproffessional and can't win a back to back.......

anyway islesfan hinted on my fealing for the matter. isiah buying on jalen and taylor wouldnt have been as irritating if just 2 seasons ago he didnt trade for mo taylor and say something to the effect of. "in two seasons his contract becomes a valueable expiring." Isiah flip flops on his plan every season, and thats very fustrating for me.

Posted by MS:
Lets say that your the sixers, do you trade iverson to the knicks for a combination of crawford and frye or frye and an expiring contract and a draft pick ahead of the deal they got from denver

absolutely not... if i'm the Sixers, i don't want to see AI in a Knicks uniform under any circumstances, & would much rather get back a package of Andre Miller, who's 1 of the better PG's in the game & still young, an expiring contract in Joe Smith, & 2 1st round picks in 2007, than take back Jamal Crawford & his contract along w/Frye & CHI's pick which will be in the 20's at best... are you seriously telling me, judging by how much you HATE Jamal, that you would take that package over what they got from DEN? i'm Jamal's biggest fan on this forum, & even i wouldn't do it.

Posted by holfresh:

It was good to see that teams were reluctant at the trading deadline to take on bad contracts of aging superstars from other teams; to help them get under the cap and clean their own house...They depend on big market teams to help them rebuild and there is nothing I would like to see more than the Nets gt stuck with Vince and Kidd the next three or four years...Kudos to Isiah and other GM's for not bailing out Pierce's bad contract, Kidd's bad contract, Iverson and Allen...As long as these teams have these players, they are stuck and can't rebuild...If they want to improve they have to starphuck...Welcome to our world...So Simmons, who I like very much, could keep slinging dirt hoping it will stick, meanwhile Celtics is saddles with Pierce's contract and going nowhere fast...If you are not making the Championship what is the point of bringing these guys in anyway...To be assured of a first round and out?...No thanks...Under the cap in 2009 if we do nothing...

[Edited by - holfresh on 02-26-2007 6:06 PM]

Wait, you think that some teams are "stuck and can't rebuild", even though they have legit all stars still playing at an elite level, their first round picks (some lottery) and are a hell of a lot closer to getting under the cap than we are but you think we're in good shape?

Unbelievable.

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by holfresh:

It was good to see that teams were reluctant at the trading deadline to take on bad contracts of aging superstars from other teams; to help them get under the cap and clean their own house...They depend on big market teams to help them rebuild and there is nothing I would like to see more than the Nets gt stuck with Vince and Kidd the next three or four years...Kudos to Isiah and other GM's for not bailing out Pierce's bad contract, Kidd's bad contract, Iverson and Allen...As long as these teams have these players, they are stuck and can't rebuild...If they want to improve they have to starphuck...Welcome to our world...So Simmons, who I like very much, could keep slinging dirt hoping it will stick, meanwhile Celtics is saddles with Pierce's contract and going nowhere fast...If you are not making the Championship what is the point of bringing these guys in anyway...To be assured of a first round and out?...No thanks...Under the cap in 2009 if we do nothing...

[Edited by - holfresh on 02-26-2007 6:06 PM]

Wait, you think that some teams are "stuck and can't rebuild", even though they have legit all stars still playing at an elite level, their first round picks (some lottery) and are a hell of a lot closer to getting under the cap than we are but you think we're in good shape?

Unbelievable.

U really think Boston, Nets, Seattle and Sacramento are sitting pretty right now??

Well it's really a two part question.

1) You're a hypocrite if you think those teams are stuck and can't rebuild when we've been in a much worse situation, one that for some reason you seem to enjoy.

2) Some of those teams are better than others. Boston has a star in his prime in Pierce, a burgeoning young player in Jefferson, a few nice youngsters and quite possibly a top 3 pick which could be Oden or Durant. The Nets have 2 elite players, another all star and a very good young big man. Plus they have a top GM in Rod Thorn. I'm not as familiar with Seattle and Sacramento.

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by holfresh:

It was good to see that teams were reluctant at the trading deadline to take on bad contracts of aging superstars from other teams; to help them get under the cap and clean their own house...They depend on big market teams to help them rebuild and there is nothing I would like to see more than the Nets gt stuck with Vince and Kidd the next three or four years...Kudos to Isiah and other GM's for not bailing out Pierce's bad contract, Kidd's bad contract, Iverson and Allen...As long as these teams have these players, they are stuck and can't rebuild...If they want to improve they have to starphuck...Welcome to our world...So Simmons, who I like very much, could keep slinging dirt hoping it will stick, meanwhile Celtics is saddles with Pierce's contract and going nowhere fast...If you are not making the Championship what is the point of bringing these guys in anyway...To be assured of a first round and out?...No thanks...Under the cap in 2009 if we do nothing...

[Edited by - holfresh on 02-26-2007 6:06 PM]

Wait, you think that some teams are "stuck and can't rebuild", even though they have legit all stars still playing at an elite level, their first round picks (some lottery) and are a hell of a lot closer to getting under the cap than we are but you think we're in good shape?

Unbelievable.

U really think Boston, Nets, Seattle and Sacramento are sitting pretty right now??

Well it's really a two part question.

1) You're a hypocrite if you think those teams are stuck and can't rebuild when we've been in a much worse situation, one that for some reason you seem to enjoy.

2) Some of those teams are better than others. Boston has a star in his prime in Pierce, a burgeoning young player in Jefferson, a few nice youngsters and quite possibly a top 3 pick which could be Oden or Durant. The Nets have 2 elite players, another all star and a very good young big man. Plus they have a top GM in Rod Thorn. I'm not as familiar with Seattle and Sacramento.

Let me respond to your first point here...I am rejoicing because everyone like Simmons and now you think the Knicks should relieve these guys of their salary hell hole...Where is it written that the Garden is the place where bad salary goes to die...I rejoice because this organization is making a departure from those ways....Sorry we can't relieve the entire league of all their mistakes and give you more material to harp on as you do continuously....Sorry...

That wasn't the point. I don't care what situation those teams are in but their situations certainly aren't worse than the one the Knicks have found themselves in the last 6 years. One that continually gets worse.

Explain why you think those teams are stuck and can't rebuild but why you also think the Knicks can in an even worse situation?

It's not even possible to just do nothing for over 2 years.

Especially when you're Isiah.

What else ya got?