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how can we make moves when we don't know what we're trying to do?
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Bonn1997
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2/19/2007  12:28 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by MS:

if we can move crawford for magette it would be a huge upgrade and give us better rebounding out of the guard positions and someone that is going to get to the free throw line, isiah won't do it because he is shortsighted and brought crawford in and was held at ransom to sign him

Huge upgrade?...Craw is a better scorer and assist guy...Maggetti rebounds better defends better but he is not a great defender...Maggetti had never played anywhere near to a full season since coming to the league and he is 27, he is not getting any healthier...He never struck me as a team player and I really can't see him thriving in a half court offense...I think he will be more successful in an uptempo style team...I really don't see how he helps Curry...


Craw isn't a better scorer. He's just in a position to score more. He takes the most shots on this team while Maggette defers to Brand and others. Maggette has had seasons where he's averaged about TEN free throws per game. He's definitely better on offense (and defense) than Jamal.
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EnySpree
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2/19/2007  12:35 PM
Posted by Cookdcokehop:

This is a good question. Well first off we have to realize what players we want to keep. Marbury, Curry, Lee, Richardson, Jeffries, Balkman, James, and Francis are not going anywhere (unfortunately). These players are half court players. So that leaves us with Nate, Frye, Crawford, Rose, and Collins. Use these 5 players and see if you can get a complimentary Half court piece (preferably a young defensive forward). The Knicks have been rebuilding on the run for a while, so why stop now. Keep the main pieces and add more young talent that can contribute.

That's all I'm saying. The knicks should be able to get something with some of those guys.
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holfresh
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2/19/2007  12:38 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by MS:

if we can move crawford for magette it would be a huge upgrade and give us better rebounding out of the guard positions and someone that is going to get to the free throw line, isiah won't do it because he is shortsighted and brought crawford in and was held at ransom to sign him

Huge upgrade?...Craw is a better scorer and assist guy...Maggetti rebounds better defends better but he is not a great defender...Maggetti had never played anywhere near to a full season since coming to the league and he is 27, he is not getting any healthier...He never struck me as a team player and I really can't see him thriving in a half court offense...I think he will be more successful in an uptempo style team...I really don't see how he helps Curry...


Craw isn't a better scorer. He's just in a position to score more. He takes the most shots on this team while Maggette defers to Brand and others. Maggette has had seasons where he's averaged about TEN free throws per game. He's definitely better on offense (and defense) than Jamal.

The Clippers wants too much for him and he is not that much better an upgrade...Craw can get in the lane at will...There are times when Craw is just unstoppable...Maggetti is not an unstoppable type player..The guy is a decent player, but the Knicks has other needs with it's pieces...
nyk4ever
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2/19/2007  12:42 PM
Magette gets to the line more than any guard in the league. I would certainly welcome him onto this team, he is a upgrade over Crawford both offensively and defensively. He's a fine player.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Bonn1997
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2/19/2007  12:47 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by MS:

if we can move crawford for magette it would be a huge upgrade and give us better rebounding out of the guard positions and someone that is going to get to the free throw line, isiah won't do it because he is shortsighted and brought crawford in and was held at ransom to sign him

Huge upgrade?...Craw is a better scorer and assist guy...Maggetti rebounds better defends better but he is not a great defender...Maggetti had never played anywhere near to a full season since coming to the league and he is 27, he is not getting any healthier...He never struck me as a team player and I really can't see him thriving in a half court offense...I think he will be more successful in an uptempo style team...I really don't see how he helps Curry...


Craw isn't a better scorer. He's just in a position to score more. He takes the most shots on this team while Maggette defers to Brand and others. Maggette has had seasons where he's averaged about TEN free throws per game. He's definitely better on offense (and defense) than Jamal.

The Clippers wants too much for him and he is not that much better an upgrade...Craw can get in the lane at will...There are times when Craw is just unstoppable...Maggetti is not an unstoppable type player..The guy is a decent player, but the Knicks has other needs with it's pieces...

All right; I'll grant you that in about 5% of games Craw is unstoppable and a better player than Maggetti if you grant me that in the other 95% Maggette is better than Craw!
holfresh
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2/19/2007  12:59 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by MS:

if we can move crawford for magette it would be a huge upgrade and give us better rebounding out of the guard positions and someone that is going to get to the free throw line, isiah won't do it because he is shortsighted and brought crawford in and was held at ransom to sign him

Huge upgrade?...Craw is a better scorer and assist guy...Maggetti rebounds better defends better but he is not a great defender...Maggetti had never played anywhere near to a full season since coming to the league and he is 27, he is not getting any healthier...He never struck me as a team player and I really can't see him thriving in a half court offense...I think he will be more successful in an uptempo style team...I really don't see how he helps Curry...


Craw isn't a better scorer. He's just in a position to score more. He takes the most shots on this team while Maggette defers to Brand and others. Maggette has had seasons where he's averaged about TEN free throws per game. He's definitely better on offense (and defense) than Jamal.

The Clippers wants too much for him and he is not that much better an upgrade...Craw can get in the lane at will...There are times when Craw is just unstoppable...Maggetti is not an unstoppable type player..The guy is a decent player, but the Knicks has other needs with it's pieces...

All right; I'll grant you that in about 5% of games Craw is unstoppable and a better player than Maggetti if you grant me that in the other 95% Maggette is better than Craw!

Maggetti is better, just not 95 percent better...I would prefer the ball in Craw's hands at the end of a game...Craw can run the point, Maggetti can't...Craw is a better assist guy...Players always looks better on other teams...Why does the Clippers want to get rid of him??..Maggetti play just as many games as Q does...



[Edited by - holfresh on 02-19-2007 1:00 PM]
GodSaveTheKnicks
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2/19/2007  1:59 PM
2003: Isiah Get’s Hired: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1692143
Some quotes that jumped out at me:

“Thomas' first task will be evaluating a roster with the league's highest payroll and deciding whether any of those massive contracts can be moved in a trade.”

“Before the Van Horn trade, Layden's biggest move came on draft night in 2002 when he sent Marcus Camby, Mark Jackson and the Knicks' lottery pick to Denver for Antonio McDyess.”

(Hey, no matter how bad things may seem with Zeke, just remember the Layden era…)


Knicks 2002-2003 Roster: (37-45)

PG: Charlie Ward, Howard Eisley, Frank Williams
SG: Allan Houston
SG/SF: Spree, Shandon Anderson, Lavor Postell
PF: McDyess aka McDice aka McHurt , Spoon, Othella, Nailon
C: Krazy Kurt, Doleac, Travis Knight, Mark Pope??

Pluses: If all of the guys in bold are healthy, I guess it wasn’t a horrible team?? Ward, Houston, Thomas could be considered somewhat high in basketball IQ. Interesting question: Who would you rather have on your team healthy and in their prime: Houston or Marbury?

Minuses: Ugly ugly bench. Wow. Don’t really see any athletes other than Spree. I guess Anderson was athletic minus any discernible basketball skills… Um they went 37-45.

I’m at work right now so I’m not going to look up what the cap situation looked like back then. Coming off of Layden I vaguely recall me cringing back then…

Knicks Current Roster:

PG: Marbury, Nate, Mardy
PG/SG: Crawford, Francis
SF: Q, JJ2, Balkman
PF: Jerome James!, Lee, Frye, Malik Rose,
C: Curry, Kato, Jerome James!

My initial impression is that I like our current team more. Our cap situation: still fcuked..

Like someone pointed out in the original thread. I don't understand AT ALL the decision to get buy out Mo Taylor and Rose instead of seeing what we could have gotten for their expiring contracts..

I think there's hope for the future if we avoid:

- Draft days that make us cry like Weiss over Artest

- Trades that make other GMs laugh. The Curry trade wasn't terrible but we should have protected those picks... I don't understand why we got Francis....or Jalen Rose...

- Any more Jerome James type signings. Isiah has probably forgotten more about basketball than I'll ever learn but how could you reward James for lollygagging through season after season and get tricked by a few good games against Sacramento in the playoffs

- Hire away San Antonio's management
Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
bobs3304
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2/19/2007  5:43 PM
There are problems you can deal with, and problems you can't.


Problems you can't deal with:

DOLAN(da ****in owner)
ISIAH --> CURRY(payed too much for), MARBURY(unmovable)


Problems you CAN deal with:

Cap
Rest of the roster
Draft Picks



If Isiah gets another lease on his existance here, he needs to do 3 things:

* Get under the cap by 09 or 10 (how did LA get Shaq?)
* Make Curry an All Star
* Better manage the roster (drop some dead weight)
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
nixluva
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2/19/2007  5:51 PM
Posted by GodSaveTheKnicks:

I think there's hope for the future if we avoid:

- Draft days that make us cry like Weiss over Artest

- Trades that make other GMs laugh. The Curry trade wasn't terrible but we should have protected those picks... I don't understand why we got Francis....or Jalen Rose...

- Any more Jerome James type signings. Isiah has probably forgotten more about basketball than I'll ever learn but how could you reward James for lollygagging through season after season and get tricked by a few good games against Sacramento in the playoffs

- Hire away San Antonio's management

No way we have any horrible draft days like that with Isiah here. He can definitely judge talent.

Jalen was really more about the draft pick. He was gone this year anyway. Dolan was probably not gonna let Isiah make anymore huge deals so I guess that's why they cleaned out Jalen and Mo.

Jerome James is likely Isiah's worst move, but then EVERY GM has one of those. We tend to overlook the many bad moves that other GM's make and focus in on the negative when it comes to Isiah. He's made some good moves and some bad ones. i think I like his current roster most of all. We just need a few things and some more development of our young players.

If Isiah get's serious and tightens up the rotation the rest of the way, we should be in good shape.
Bonn1997
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2/19/2007  7:23 PM
Did you just say every GM has a Jerome James type of signing??? What other GM has given a player roughly thirty times what he's worth ($30 mil instead of a 1 yr. $1 mil contract)?
playa2
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2/19/2007  9:03 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Did you just say every GM has a Jerome James type of signing??? What other GM has given a player roughly thirty times what he's worth ($30 mil instead of a 1 yr. $1 mil contract)?

good point Bonn

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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