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Magic Looking to deal Grant Hills expiring. How about this... ?
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TheGame
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2/10/2007  4:53 PM
Posted by Anji:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Anji:

And would the Magic get rid of Hill when he makes the team play better and they can sign who ever they want in the offseason????? They have zero reason..........

they have a chance to make the playoffs. hill's expiring + darko could return a very nice piece that they can use long term. they have to decide whether they can get someone better this offseason via free agency than they can get now via trade. i feel grant will leave them and go someplace to win a ring (if he decides to keep playing). and by making the trade, they can then re-sign darko without any worries b/c of the bird rule. but if they enter free agency, they can't sign a free agent and then sign darko to go over the cap - they need to sign darko first.

out of the realm of possibility deal: jameer + darko + grant for joe johnson.

They are 20 million dollars under the cap after this year.......... if they want Darko and the wing player thye believe they are missing, they can structure two deals to keep them both. 8 for Darko and 12 for who ever are their limits year one.... they can get anybody with that.


Yesh, I think the Magic are going to a make a run at Carter and then resign Darko. You add Carter to that team and the Magic will be something.
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buddapaw
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2/10/2007  5:16 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by nykshaknbake:

why do this mid season? To help Chicago? If ypu that desperately want cap room why not win a little bit first and have a more enjoyable season?

We can't worry about the pick going to Chicago anymore, our pick is gone, it doesn't matter who has the pick, we dont and we wont have it. We have to move forward with getting our franchise straightened out and the only way to do it is by straightening out the cap situation.

We do have a pick this it's only a swap of draft order, I'm sorry but I don't agree with this trade because Dolan doesn't care about the cap all he care about is putting asses in garden. Sending Crawford and Frye away for Hill is just plain stupid because every game we lose it better the Bulls draft position and yes we will loose alot of games, who plays the SG when Q breaks down again? Yeah cap space is great but it's not like we will be under it if we make this trade.
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JohnnyBONES
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2/10/2007  5:22 PM
That's trading just for the sake of trading. I'd rather not make any trades than do something drastic that doesn't involve an all star.
buddapaw
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2/10/2007  5:23 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by crzymdups:

no way Zeke helps Orlando make the playoffs. we're fighting for the same spot.

Are you ok with that though?

I understand its good to fight for the playoffs, but it's one thing to try and fight for the playoffs, no matter what and it's one thing to realize that even if we do make the playoffs, we likely won't escape the 1st round. This is still a rebuilding situation and we need to take the necessary steps to cut our payroll when the opportunities present them self. I feel this is one of those opportunities.

So you are saying that making the playoff is not part of the the rebuilding process. I guess we go out and suck until we find the perfect group of players then make a run to the finals. Yeah right. Rebuilding is about progression and your argument in regards to the playoffs is flawed.
It took Jordan a couple of early round playoff exit before he won his six so why it is such a bad idea to get our young players some playoff experience? Sheesh
"Low Percentage Shots r US, these are our Knicks" "NY KNICKS the cure for basketball fanatic"
TheGame
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2/10/2007  5:33 PM
Posted by buddapaw:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by crzymdups:

no way Zeke helps Orlando make the playoffs. we're fighting for the same spot.

Are you ok with that though?

I understand its good to fight for the playoffs, but it's one thing to try and fight for the playoffs, no matter what and it's one thing to realize that even if we do make the playoffs, we likely won't escape the 1st round. This is still a rebuilding situation and we need to take the necessary steps to cut our payroll when the opportunities present them self. I feel this is one of those opportunities.

So you are saying that making the playoff is not part of the the rebuilding process. I guess we go out and suck until we find the perfect group of players then make a run to the finals. Yeah right. Rebuilding is about progression and your argument in regards to the playoffs is flawed.
It took Jordan a couple of early round playoff exit before he won his six so why it is such a bad idea to get our young players some playoff experience? Sheesh

I totally agree. People keep talking about making trades to fix our problems. However, we have a team full of 22-25 year old players. These players will get better because IT is going to make them get better. The roster is not perfect but we need to push this roster to its limit before we start talking about trading players for other players who we assume will be better fits. Cap flexibility is just not going to happen with this team because no one is taking our bad contracts and by the time those expire, we will have to resign guys like Lee, Frye, and Nate (and Balkman the following year). So we might as well maximize the value of the guys we have and see how far they can take us.


[Edited by - thegame on 02-10-2007 5:34 PM]
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nyk4ever
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2/10/2007  5:45 PM
Posted by buddapaw:


So you are saying that making the playoff is not part of the the rebuilding process. I guess we go out and suck until we find the perfect group of players then make a run to the finals. Yeah right. Rebuilding is about progression and your argument in regards to the playoffs is flawed.
It took Jordan a couple of early round playoff exit before he won his six so why it is such a bad idea to get our young players some playoff experience? Sheesh

Don't pretend like the Knicks have a Michael Jordan.

My big problem is this: Right now we are turning our wheels, how can we add to this team to make them better than top teams in the east? We can't do it through high draft picks and we can't do it through free-agency. So how are we going to add to this mix of Marbury/Curry/Lee. It's not going to get any better than that mix if we keep current course for the next 2-3 years, because we have NO way of making moves. Management has to see this and make moves that will enable them to add to Curry/Lee and make moves that will benefit these 2 players in the coming years. Dolan has already got what he wanted this year, which is people in the Garden. Now it's time to put this team in a better position maybe next year, at making some moves that will enable them to get even FURTHER under the cap. The move I propose is only Step1, but Step1 is a very big step in rebuilding the cap.

Of course making the playoffs is a good thing. I'm not saying its a bad thing, what I am saying is that this franchise is rebuilding and we don't have a franchise player. Also this idea that we should do everything we can this year to win, just so the Bulls don't get a better pick is ridiculous. Why does that matter? That should not be at the forefront of the Knicks plans about this year and the coming years because it doesn't make a difference for our franchise. That pick is gone and we're not getting it back, we might as well concentrate our efforts and getting some pieces into this franchise that will benefit Eddy Curry. If Eddy had a great wing player who can dominate the things offensively and play good defense, then this team would be pretty lethal. Problem is; there are only 2 ways to get the type of player that I just mentioned:
1.Draft 2. Free-Agency

Our pick is being sent to the Bulls and in return we'll likely get a pick in the 20, which will NOT net us that type of player. So whats the other way? Free-Agency is where we can control our own destiny, if we have the cap-room we'll get the players. In your previous post you were saying that Dolan won't allow us to trade Crawford and Frye will make us lose alot of games? Why will that cause to lose alot of games. This team would still have Marbury/Curry/Lee/Q who make up the most of what this team is anyways. This team has already has won 22 games and would win atleast 10 more with or without Crawford/Frye.

This deal makes sense because the Knicks and Crawford don't have a good marriage ahead. Eventually the Knicks are going to get the 2guard that they need that will take them to the promised land and that is going to render Jamal useless. Why not trade him now while his value is still good, get back some capspace in return and expedite the the cap process.

I don't mind being the only guy in this boat, I think these are the types of moves the Knicks need to make to get back to a respectable level. The longer the Knicks keep turning their wheels, the longer it will take to get back to respectability. We are *hoping* that at the end of 2008/2009 the Knicks will have some capspace. This trade is a way to ensure that we not only have the capspace then but also maybe a year or 2 earlier.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 02-10-2007 5:49 PM]
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buddapaw
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2/10/2007  5:50 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by buddapaw:


So you are saying that making the playoff is not part of the the rebuilding process. I guess we go out and suck until we find the perfect group of players then make a run to the finals. Yeah right. Rebuilding is about progression and your argument in regards to the playoffs is flawed.
It took Jordan a couple of early round playoff exit before he won his six so why it is such a bad idea to get our young players some playoff experience? Sheesh

Don't pretend like the Knicks have a Michael Jordan.

My big problem is this: Right now we are turning our wheels, how can we add to this team to make them better than top teams in the east? We can't do it through high draft picks and we can't do it through free-agency. So how are we going to add to this mix of Marbury/Curry/Lee. It's not going to get any better than that mix if we keep current course for the next 2-3 years, because we have NO way of making moves. Management has to see this and make moves that will enable them to add to Curry/Lee and make moves that will benefit these 2 players in the coming years. Dolan has already got what he wanted this year, which is people in the Garden. Now it's time to put this team in a better position maybe next year, at making some moves that will enable them to get even FURTHER under the cap. The move I propose is only Step1, but Step1 is a very big step in rebuilding the cap.

Of course making the playoffs is a good thing. I'm not saying its a bad thing, what I am saying is that this franchise is rebuilding and we don't have a franchise player. Also this idea that we should do everything we can this year to win, just so the Bulls don't get a better pick is ridiculous. Why does that matter? That should not be at the forefront of the Knicks plans about this year and the coming years because it doesn't make a difference for our franchise. That pick is gone and we're not getting it back, we might as well concentrate our efforts and getting some pieces into this franchise that will benefit Eddy Curry. If Eddy had a great wing player who can dominate the things offensively and play good defense, then this team would be pretty lethal. Problem is; there are only 2 ways to get the type of player that I just mentioned:
1.Draft 2. Free-Agency

Our pick is being sent to the Bulls and in return we'll likely get a pick in the 20, which will NOT net us that type of player. So whats the other way? Free-Agency is where we can control our own destiny, if we have the cap-room we'll get the players. In your previous post you were saying that Dolan won't allow us to trade Crawford and Frye will make us lose alot of games? Why will that cause to lose alot of games. This team would still have Marbury/Curry/Lee/Q who make up the most of what this team is anyways. This team has already has won 22 games and would win atleast 10 more with or without Crawford/Frye.

This deal makes sense because the Knicks and Crawford don't have a good marriage ahead. Eventually the Knicks are going to get the 2guard that they need that will take them to the promised land and that is going to render Jamal useless. Why not trade him now while his value is still good, get back some capspace in return and expedite the the cap process.

I don't mind being the only guy in this boat, I think these are the types of moves the Knicks need to make to get back to a respectable level. The longer the Knicks keep turning their wheels, the longer it will take to get back to respectability. We are *hoping* that at the end of 2008/2009 the Knicks will have some capspace. This trade is a way to ensure that we not only have the capspace then but also maybe a year or 2 earlier.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 02-10-2007 5:49 PM]

Give it a break dude we have lost year of development with the Larry Brown fiasco it will take some tome
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firefly
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2/10/2007  6:05 PM
I don't believe my trade is a tearing it all down style trade.

We lose Crawford, Frye and Q, but we gain Darko, JJ Redick and Korver.

Theres enough there for the present, and a huge amount there for the future. Plus we upgrade in places we need help in.
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
crzymdups
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2/10/2007  6:07 PM
Posted by firefly:

I don't believe my trade is a tearing it all down style trade.

We lose Crawford, Frye and Q, but we gain Darko, JJ Redick and Korver.

Theres enough there for the present, and a huge amount there for the future. Plus we upgrade in places we need help in.

that trade takes away 3 of our top 6 players for a bunch of jump shooters.

¿ △ ?
holfresh
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2/10/2007  6:22 PM
Yet another lets get rid of Channing Frye at all cost thread...It doesn't have to make sense just as long as Frye is on the out going deal...and the reply usually is...Yeah, let's do it, great move but Orlando wouldn't do it...we are not offering enough..Guys come on...How about a trade that will improve the Knicks...Now you have Isiah is trying to get under the cap and not concerned about improving the team to save his job????....

[Edited by - holfresh on 02-10-2007 6:23 PM]
djsunyc
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2/10/2007  6:38 PM
frye will flourish on another team b/c they will use him correctly. we can't be afraid of that. he will not reach his potential here as long as eddy is the focal point of the team.

but if we can use frye to either get another starting long term piece (a young pg, sg, or sf) or to dump major salary down the road (if getting under the cap is our M.O.), then we should explore it.
firefly
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2/10/2007  6:38 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by firefly:

I don't believe my trade is a tearing it all down style trade.

We lose Crawford, Frye and Q, but we gain Darko, JJ Redick and Korver.

Theres enough there for the present, and a huge amount there for the future. Plus we upgrade in places we need help in.

that trade takes away 3 of our top 6 players for a bunch of jump shooters.


This deal taks away one of our best players, an unreliable albeit hugely clutch sg and our possible pf for the future who plays the same position as our surefire pf for the future.

In return we get Darko, the 2nd pick in the LeBron, Melo, Wade, Bosh draft who is showing some real signs defensively, but is not that polished on the offensive end (perfect next to Curry), Korver, a reliable, serious threat from the 3 admittedly with the same defensive issues as Crawford has and Redick. Its too early to tell how good Redick will be in the NBA, but I would draw your attention back to his insanely clutch performances in college for some sort of pointer.

We also get a loan on Hill for the rest of the season, AND we get oodles of caproom as well. And its not like we are milking Orlando in this deal at all. Hell, I would start with Jerome instead of Malik to begin, and the Magic are still getting a great deal.

I would definitely do that deal. It gives us pieces we need and 2 possible stars for the future. I like Frye and Crawford, but this deal would help the Knicks all round, from a financial perspective, a frontcourt defense perspective and a future potential perspective. Check, check, check.

[Edited by - firefly on 02-10-2007 6:45 PM]
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
firefly
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2/10/2007  6:44 PM
Posted by holfresh:

Yet another lets get rid of Channing Frye at all cost thread...It doesn't have to make sense just as long as Frye is on the out going deal...and the reply usually is...Yeah, let's do it, great move but Orlando wouldn't do it...we are not offering enough..Guys come on...How about a trade that will improve the Knicks...Now you have Isiah is trying to get under the cap and not concerned about improving the team to save his job????....

[Edited by - holfresh on 02-10-2007 6:23 PM]

This has got nothing to do with getting rid of Channing. I am a huge fan of Channing Frye and I think he will be a great player. The fact is that this deal would be a good one for the NEW YORK KNICKS. It gives us a lot of things we are missing, plus gives us some stars for the fuure. Channing is good, but a deal like this would be better.

[Edited by - firefly on 02-10-2007 6:45 PM]
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
holfresh
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2/10/2007  6:49 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

frye will flourish on another team b/c they will use him correctly. we can't be afraid of that. he will not reach his potential here as long as eddy is the focal point of the team.

but if we can use frye to either get another starting long term piece (a young pg, sg, or sf) or to dump major salary down the road (if getting under the cap is our M.O.), then we should explore it.

I not sure when getting under the cap was the Knicks' M.O....So how about a deal that would help the Knicks...Since when the Knicks are in the business of making sure players reach their potential on other teams...Fyre is still a decent player that can get a good piece... But I'm not trading Frye for a bag of chips...Just nuts...
holfresh
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2/10/2007  6:54 PM
Posted by firefly:
Posted by holfresh:

Yet another lets get rid of Channing Frye at all cost thread...It doesn't have to make sense just as long as Frye is on the out going deal...and the reply usually is...Yeah, let's do it, great move but Orlando wouldn't do it...we are not offering enough..Guys come on...How about a trade that will improve the Knicks...Now you have Isiah is trying to get under the cap and not concerned about improving the team to save his job????....

[Edited by - holfresh on 02-10-2007 6:23 PM]

This has got nothing to do with getting rid of Channing. I am a huge fan of Channing Frye and I think he will be a great player. The fact is that this deal would be a good one for the NEW YORK KNICKS. It gives us a lot of things we are missing, plus gives us some stars for the fuure. Channing is good, but a deal like this would be better.

[Edited by - firefly on 02-10-2007 6:45 PM]

I wasn't talking about your proposal but how is Darko, Korver, and Redick helping their teams now...They are borderline NBA players...Grant Hill doesn't play enough to include him in any lineup...How does it help the Knicks???

How can we trade Q, Craw and Frye for Korver, Darko, and Redick???...How???

Of the six players in this deal, the three best players are being traded by the Knicks...



[Edited by - holfresh on 02-10-2007 7:11 PM]
GKFv2
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2/10/2007  7:14 PM
The Magic are not taking Malik Rose or Crawford. LOL. Who are they, Isiah?
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
firefly
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2/10/2007  7:15 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by firefly:
Posted by holfresh:

Yet another lets get rid of Channing Frye at all cost thread...It doesn't have to make sense just as long as Frye is on the out going deal...and the reply usually is...Yeah, let's do it, great move but Orlando wouldn't do it...we are not offering enough..Guys come on...How about a trade that will improve the Knicks...Now you have Isiah is trying to get under the cap and not concerned about improving the team to save his job????....

[Edited by - holfresh on 02-10-2007 6:23 PM]

This has got nothing to do with getting rid of Channing. I am a huge fan of Channing Frye and I think he will be a great player. The fact is that this deal would be a good one for the NEW YORK KNICKS. It gives us a lot of things we are missing, plus gives us some stars for the fuure. Channing is good, but a deal like this would be better.

[Edited by - firefly on 02-10-2007 6:45 PM]

I wasn't talking about your proposal but how is Darko, Korver, and Redick helping their teams now...They are borderline NBA players...Grant Hill doesn't play enough to include him in any lineup...How does it help the Knicks???

How can we trade Q, Craw and Frye for Korver, Darko, and Redick???...How???


Lets see, what do we need.

3-point threat, to help Eddy wih the double-teams - Check
Serious defensive presence under the hoop to compensate for Eddys lack thereof - Check
Free up logjam at guard (current g's = Marbury, Francis, Craw, Q, Nate, Mardy) - Check (G's = Marbury, Francis, Reddick, Nate, Mardy)

Losing a major future prospect in Frye - Getting two back in Darko and Reddick
Losing our starting sf (Q) - Getting 2 back in Hill and Korver

Look, I know we lose some stuff in tis trade, but you always do. You have to trade something of value to get something of value. If we did this trade, I would keep Francis in rehab, give Reddick 25 mpg just to see what he can do, and back Marbs and JJ up with Nate, Korver and Mardy. Play Darko up front, were he will get all of Q's rebounds, and start Hill with Korver on the bench.

That team has a real future. So does Frye, but the Knicks get stronger as a more rounded team.
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
firefly
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2/10/2007  7:53 PM
I take back what I aid about Milicic being clueless on offense. Im watching the Magic-Nets game, and he just had 3 great moves in a row. A spin move jam on the right block, a drbble-drive dow the lane, spin move and finger-roll and a left block babyhook.

Impressive
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
oohah
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2/10/2007  8:03 PM
Firefly, taking back Korver and Reddick is getting 2 of the same player. And I don't think Reddick will be as good as Korver.

That would be 2 absolutely 1-dimensional players who can't play any D.

I don't want that, we can get one of those guys for less than Frye.

I like Milicic, but he is a big disappointment. Don't let one game fool you, I've had him on my fantasy team all year and he be pissing me off!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
firefly
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2/10/2007  8:08 PM
Posted by oohah:

Firefly, taking back Korver and Reddick is getting 2 of the same player. And I don't think Reddick will be as good as Korver.

That would be 2 absolutely 1-dimensional players who can't play any D.

I don't want that, we can get one of those guys for less than Frye.

I like Milicic, but he is a big disappointment. Don't let one game fool you, I've had him on my fantasy team all year and he be pissing me off!

oohah

I hear what you say about Korver and Reddick, but I am a big Reddick fan, and I think he can become more like Ray Allen then Kyle Korver. Who knows.

Lol at Darko on your fantasy team. He's on one of mine to, and yeah he's been disappointing, except for the blocks. But you have to assume that he will get more rebounds and all-round touches playing next to Curry then next to Howard.
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
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