this is ridiculous again - if you look at every team since Jordan retired, they've won with dominant big man.

what is Curry becoming? I'm not saying Curry = championship, but with the right players around him, he could be the anchor of one.

Posted by Solace:

Has any team ever made it to the NBA finals with a big man as poor defensively as Ey "No D" Curry? I can't think of one.

Rick Smits?

Posted by Solace:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Really? I think the team's done a lot of "starphucking" from McDyess to Marbury to Francis. I bet Isiah was hoping for a superstars when he got Jamal and Curry too. The team's gone for plenty of stars--just the wrong, quick way.

And that's the problem... throughout the history of the NBA, it's extremely rare to be able to trade for a superstar. The only ways that seem to work with some success are through the draft, and occasionally through free agency if you have the cap room. The star is almost aways a big man and almost always one of the top 5-10 players in the league. McDyess, Marbury, Francis, Curry, Crawford don't qualify. For Isiah to think that they do shows why he doesn't have the right mindset.

Shaq traded.
T-Mac traded.
AI traded.
Elton Brand traded.
Jason Kidd traded.
Charles Barkley traded.
Wilt Chamberlin traded.
etc. etc. etc.

heck, what did DETROIT do? they buit a team then traded for their STAR: Rasheed.
what did MIAMI do? They accumulated mid-stars like Odom and Butler, then traded for their STAR: Shaq.
Detroit didn't deserve it? Why were they right back there the next year against SA.

Posted by TrueBlue:

You might as well Asterisk Det championship via Kobe handing it to them on a silver platter because he was in full blown Tank B**** MODE, IT'S MY TEAM GET SHAQ OFF OF IT OR ELSE I"LL BOLT IN FA TO THE CLIPPERS.

Oh yea, sure! Kobe just handed them the championship.

Posted by kam77:

Posted by Solace:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Really? I think the team's done a lot of "starphucking" from McDyess to Marbury to Francis. I bet Isiah was hoping for a superstars when he got Jamal and Curry too. The team's gone for plenty of stars--just the wrong, quick way.

And that's the problem... throughout the history of the NBA, it's extremely rare to be able to trade for a superstar. The only ways that seem to work with some success are through the draft, and occasionally through free agency if you have the cap room. The star is almost aways a big man and almost always one of the top 5-10 players in the league. McDyess, Marbury, Francis, Curry, Crawford don't qualify. For Isiah to think that they do shows why he doesn't have the right mindset.

Shaq traded.
T-Mac traded.
AI traded.
Elton Brand traded.
Jason Kidd traded.
Charles Barkley traded.
Wilt Chamberlin traded.
etc. etc. etc.

heck, what did DETROIT do? they buit a team then traded for their STAR: Rasheed.
what did MIAMI do? They accumulated mid-stars like Odom and Butler, then traded for their STAR: Shaq.
Detroit didn't deserve it? Why were they right back there the next year against SA.

Rasheed is NOT Detroit's star. Give me a break.

You have some examples of stars getting traded, BUT... in order to get in that scenario you're waiting for a malcontent to ask to be traded (AI, TMac, Shaq). Also, in some of the trades you mentioned, at the time of the trade, the other side got a player equally or more valuable than the player they traded (e.g.: Marbury for Kidd, Chandler for Brand). In T_Mac's case, this is also an injury prone player with a bad back, who was falling from superstar status.

I don't think you disproved my point, but it does give me some clarity as to your view. Let me ask, though: If say, KG became available, what are you giving up to get him? Do we have the pieces to get him? Do we have the pieces to be a championship team after he got here? I say maybe to the first, if you're willing to give up DLee and Curry. I say no to the second. That's the problem with building top-down.

[Edited by - Solace on Jan 26 2007 12:01 PM]

Posted by TMS:

all i can base him on is what i've seen of him in games i've watched Bip... i'm not a huge Uconn fan like you so obviously you know more about him than i do... everytime I'VE seen him play, he's pretty much looked for his shot & has not been a good defender on the perimeter... playing w/J Kidd probably has a lot to do w/him shooting when they're on the floor together, but what about when Kidd's on the bench & M Will is orchestrating the offense? i don't get visions of John Stockton or Mark Jackson when i watch him running the offense, but that's just me... maybe he was a great passing PG in college, but i can't speak to stuff i haven't seen so i'll leave it at that.

I watched him for 3 years and played pick-up with the guy and I'm telling you right now he is a pass first PG without a doubt. That can score if asked to. His biggest strength is how he runs an offense. Here is draft express' summary of Marcus' skills

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=180

An exact quote from Jason Kidd "Marcus in his first year is already one of the top 5 passers in the league."

Nbadraftnet:Williams is one of the top passers in the college game, but scouts aren't sure he has the athleticism and overall scoring ability to be a big time NBA point guard.

Again I go on record that I'm okay with the Balkman pick. Who knows what these two will end up as. This isn't the debate. But I'm not okay with the excuse as to why we passed on him. this notion that he is a shoot first guard that does what our current guards do is way off base. Even if he shoots every time from here on out and never passes a ball again that doesn't validate this as an excuse as to why we passed on him in the draft. In college he was a clear pass first PG. He averaged 8.5 shot attempts per game in his last two years. With 8.9 being his high. At the same time averaged over 8.0 assists per game leading the nation as a sophomore. Some may say he actually over passed at times to teammates that were overly passive.

Curry will reach his prime in 4 years. IN the next 4 years hustle role players will be available every season. But potential pass first PG's that can run an offense and get the ball to your "franchise" center are few and far between. In my view when one is there you take a chance. That's all I'm saying. But as far as the reason as to why we passed on him I'm still not sure what it is. If you liek Balkman more than him than f'in say that. Don't give out falsehoods.