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Something I've Noticed About The Lovers
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nixluva
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1/25/2007  7:28 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=17359

nixluva--you've been consistently inconsistent just like the theme of this post. Everyone who is employed by the Knicks will do the same thing--they want their paycheck rolling in--I don't blame them--but the wool is not pulled over the eyes:)
There are a few fans that want to see IT signed back up for another 4 years for a variety of reasons--none of which have to do with the reality of what the team is.


Briggs, in what way have I been inconsistent! I'd like to know how what I'm saying now goes against anything I said before? I DID expect the team to start off slow and build as the season went along and i'd think that any realistic fan would expect the same thing from this team based on the disaster of last year. That's not exactly going out on a limb by figuring they'd get better as the year went along. You just want to take ONE SINGLE POST and make that the end all be all of my feelings about what the Knicks would do.

In the thread you referenced I wrote:

"I think they'll play together as a team. I think the key guys on this roster like each other and REALLY want to show that they aren't losers. I think they'll LISTEN to Isiah and overall I think they'll ALL bond together this year. I think they'll be anywhere from 41-45 wins. Tho I previously said 42-46, I thought about it some more and a good starting point is to at least be .500 and if things go real well, they can exceed that by a few games.
I really want to see this team make the playoffs. I think it will be great for this teams development over the next few years. Unlike last year I think this team will actually improve as the season goes along and their chemistry together in this system develops."

NOW YOU TELL ME WHERE THE HELL I'VE BEEN INCONSISTENT!!!!!!!!!!! This is the kind of crap that get's me sick. It's one thingg for you guys not to like that I'm optimistic about the team, but don't try to paint me as being a flip flop artist as well. That's simply ridiculous. I genuinely like this team and I think despite some of the recent tough losses, there's plenty of time for this team to achieve what some of us predicted for this team. Or did the season end yesterday and someone forgot to tell me!
AUTOADVERT
kam77
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1/26/2007  1:33 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by kam77:

Hater and Lover are meaningless terms when it comes to win totals. I'm on record predicting 38 victories. Thats my realistic assessment. I'm not a hater, but i'm also not naive to think we'd go from 23 wins to 42, 43, 44, in one year. That just rarely happens in the NBA unless you land a SuperStar.

Why? We were led to believe that the only reason this team didn't play .500 ball last year was because of the coach. Without him, why isn't it realistic to expect at least what they should have done last year?

I asked this same question to TMS on the grounds has the team really improved? If the team doesn't lie down like pansies last yr I thought they could have won 35gms at the minimum. Right now they are on pace to win 33-34gms. IMO the team hasn't improved, although certain players may have.

We didn't win 35 last year, and thats why winning 35+ this year is significant. Its not that hard to understand. Its improvement. You can't measure against two years ago when 60% of the team (Frye, Lee, N8, Cato, Jj, JJ, Balk, Q and Collins) weren't here two years ago. Isiah is getting them to where they shoulda been at the start of last year. Damage has to be UNDONE. first. Remember LB broke everyone down and was axed before he could build them back up again. The team was shellshocked after last years disaster.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
SlimPack
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1/26/2007  1:50 AM
Posted by nixluva:

I think what you are not taking into account is that NONE of us were saying this team would START THE YEAR PLAYING like a 40+ win team. You want them to be playing at the rate NOW and what we've been saying from the START is that the team should build towards that. Now you can nitpick over the excuses we make, but the truth is that a slow start followed by improved play was what most of us expected and it's been happening for the most part.

The thing is that the team has until the last two games been playing fairly well. If you take the early bad stretch 6-11 in November, which most would fairly expect would happen given the new coach, system and schedule, they actually didn't do as bad as predicted. After that they played much better in December 7-9. And so far in January they're 5-6. What we are hoping for is a stretch as somepoint in the season when they go on a nice run and can play above .500 for a while, this can get them up to the 40 game area as we so called Lovers have been hoping for.

The way you guys talk you'd think it was impossible. There's no guarantee, but this team still has a chance to achieve the goals we all have for them. What gives hope is that this team lost 2 of it's games by one point and those games could go either way. Still we had a winning record in Jan. That is until the last two games in which the team didn't play well. But the season isn't over yet and you guys seem to be forgetting that. It's not just excuses that we so called Lovers are putting out there. Injuries for a developing team can be big. Especially a team trying to FIND some consistency and an identity. We didn't come into the season with those things.


hmm... I have a question. if the knicks don't go on said run and finish the season with 35 wins, do you still support Isiah?

and another thing, how long in your mind have the knicks been rebuilding? sinec Isiah took over, since last season, or since this season?
BRIGGS
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1/26/2007  3:00 AM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by kam77:

Hater and Lover are meaningless terms when it comes to win totals. I'm on record predicting 38 victories. Thats my realistic assessment. I'm not a hater, but i'm also not naive to think we'd go from 23 wins to 42, 43, 44, in one year. That just rarely happens in the NBA unless you land a SuperStar.

Why? We were led to believe that the only reason this team didn't play .500 ball last year was because of the coach. Without him, why isn't it realistic to expect at least what they should have done last year?

I asked this same question to TMS on the grounds has the team really improved? If the team doesn't lie down like pansies last yr I thought they could have won 35gms at the minimum. Right now they are on pace to win 33-34gms. IMO the team hasn't improved, although certain players may have.

We didn't win 35 last year, and thats why winning 35+ this year is significant. Its not that hard to understand. Its improvement. You can't measure against two years ago when 60% of the team (Frye, Lee, N8, Cato, Jj, JJ, Balk, Q and Collins) weren't here two years ago. Isiah is getting them to where they shoulda been at the start of last year. Damage has to be UNDONE. first. Remember LB broke everyone down and was axed before he could build them back up again. The team was shellshocked after last years disaster.


and they never will--- jerome james will never play in NY and we paid 32mm for him--jared jefferies is a 10 minute bit player who we spent another 32mm$ on--- ALMOST every team in the league's rookies get more PT than ours although we arent good and we won 23 games last year. Q and Marbury are walking physical time bombs... Dont give me this team was broken down crp that's a panzy fake excuse--this isnt the Gulag--this is basketball--the same game we all played for many years--a game. the only effect LB had was to snake 30mm$ from the team. If anything Frye is worse than last year and that has nothing to with anyone but FRYE. imho if some things broke down and we won 27 games it will still be acceptable there is an excuse we can make at every corner other than to say we have Curry and Lee which is the dam team right there.

Go look it up IT has spent 500+mm $ and we still stink and arent close to being good imho. His acquisitions in 2006 DID NOT improve the team

If we were a rebuilding team--where is balkman and collins on a nightly basis?

One bad break and we could be handing over a greg oden a Noah or a Durant.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 01-26-2007 03:05 AM]
RIP Crushalot😞
bitty41
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1/26/2007  8:49 AM
Last season was an aberration and I don't think it was indicative of the Knicks talent level. And it should not be the standard in which Isiah should have to pass in order to keep his job. If the Knicks cann't win the division in which every team is under .500 currently and all the injuries that have happened to major players he should be fired on the spot. 36 wins finishing 3rd place should not be considered an improvement nor should it be reason enough for Isiah to keep his job.
nyk4ever
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1/26/2007  10:24 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

this isnt the Gulag--this is basketball--the same game we all played for many years--a game.

LOL Briggs, that line was priceless!
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
arkrud
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1/26/2007  10:53 AM
For the last 3 years (the IT time) I never heard from him or any other Knicks/MSG motivational speakers that this team is bad and have a long and bumpy road to get to respectability in NBA.
They was talking about how good we are, how much talent we have, how we will make a noise and win the championships, what a wonderful coaches we have, how good our GM is in drafting and how he is trying hard to trade for best players, blablabla...
This is typical corporate environment. It is all about the image and nothing about the substance. And the substance just sucks.
I am not a hater of the Knicks and I like and root for our players. Even for bad players.
But I am a hater of IT/Dolan/Miles and Co. and MSG corporate culture of lies, corruption, and ass-kissing.


"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
TrueBlue
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2/15/2007  1:13 PM
Just read nixluva, holfresh, oohah, Killa, Anji comments after the GSW game yesetrday. Some comments prior to also.... It's like shooting Fish In a Barrell.


Their comments fit the last category


It's a 43, 44, 45 win team isn't it.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Anji
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2/15/2007  2:56 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:

Just read nixluva, holfresh, oohah, Killa, Anji comments after the GSW game yesetrday. Some comments prior to also.... It's like shooting Fish In a Barrell.


Their comments fit the last category


It's a 43, 44, 45 win team isn't it.

Didn't watch the game, I was bizzy.........this is my first comment after the game.

YOu should shoot your Foot!!!!!!

[Edited by - anji on 02-15-2007 2:57 PM]
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
TrueBlue
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2/15/2007  3:00 PM
Posted by Anji:
Posted by TrueBlue:

Just read nixluva, holfresh, oohah, Killa, Anji comments after the GSW game yesetrday. Some comments prior to also.... It's like shooting Fish In a Barrell.


Their comments fit the last category


It's a 43, 44, 45 win team isn't it.

Didn't watch the game, I was bizzy.........this is my first comment after the game.

YOu should shoot your Foot!!!!!!

[Edited by - anji on 02-15-2007 2:57 PM]


Did I not say "Some comments prior to"



Keep apologizing though
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Anji
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2/15/2007  3:12 PM
Well be clearer, I didn't make any comments about the game afterwards because all it is is a Box score to me since I couldn't see it!!!! I know the team I root for and I never made any of the claims you seem to notice, which seem to be taking one or two guys perdictions the knicks would win 42 plus games. If you want to know what I said about this season, it was 38-41. 41 being the highest, best season they could have. I don't know where this garabage you came up with has to with me.



Like I don't even know who the next game is, But I know the knicks will win because we have a week off. YOu can add that to what ever thread if we lose, but if we win I know there won't be any threads or updates out of you or your kind!!!!!!!
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
TheGame
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2/15/2007  3:22 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by kam77:

Hater and Lover are meaningless terms when it comes to win totals. I'm on record predicting 38 victories. Thats my realistic assessment. I'm not a hater, but i'm also not naive to think we'd go from 23 wins to 42, 43, 44, in one year. That just rarely happens in the NBA unless you land a SuperStar.

Why? We were led to believe that the only reason this team didn't play .500 ball last year was because of the coach. Without him, why isn't it realistic to expect at least what they should have done last year?

Who led you to believe this? Wasn't I. We haven't been a .500 team since JVG left.

The players, who got their joy back, the owner, who blames everything on LB, and the team president and GM who blamed LB for not being able to win with the collection of stiffs that he assembled.

I think what we were actually led to believe is that the reason the team only won 23 games last year was because of LB. Since we have matched that total and there are about 30 games left, you could argue that those statements were absolutely true.
Trust the Process
MS
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2/15/2007  3:32 PM
There is a big difference between this stupid topic, about "Haters" and "Lovers"

The Lovers don't have a ****ing clue.....period and thats not a shot, its a fact.

1. We have no room to operate, we are stuck with terrible mismatched parts
2. Isiah is dumb, who gives out a 7 year deal to a player like Crawford, 5 years for Jerome James for the full midlevel right at the begining of the summer, Including a 15% trade kicker on a player thats not worth the vetran minimum in JJ.
3. Marbury, Francis, Q could all go down at any second, Q has a number of years left, JJ1 has foot problems, JJ2 looks like he is injury prone because of his frail body.
4. Isiah has been coaching as a gm
5. He allows Crawford and Curry to get away with murder on defense, whats Eddys motivation to try on defense when he is allowed to be the focal point while not trying
6. We can't get much better, Crawford will never play defense improve his shot selection and use his abilities the way he should, Eddy will never make the effort on defense, Frye can't make it as a powerfoward, we have mentally weak players, Nate enjoys himself win or lose. 8 players on this roster can't be moved for anything positive
7. Dolan is concerned with revenue not creating a winner
8. This team gets blown out to often and quits more than it should.
9. There is a sense of entitlement that prevents this team from really becoming good.
10. Balkman doesn't play, why you tell me.

We have two players on the team bring it everytime they are on the floor. Balkman and Lee

If there was something to be excited about other than those two i really don't know what it is, Curry is a great scorer, so was Chris Gatling, Lee Nailon, Shareef got you 20 and 10 steph got you 20 and 8, but what matters is doing the little things and playing the right way. Eddy could be so good its scary if he just tried. We would have a franchise player we would have hope, but he never will.....

Haters are just realists, I am not going to get excited about players getting paid millions to compete, and not quiting out there. And we shouldn't have to commend Marbury for realizing his image and career were going down the toilet and actually becoming a good defender all of a sudden.....

I'll go to war with Q, Lee and Balkman, and Marbury to a lesser extent because he plays through pain.....

But with no flexibility and really tradable assets I am not going to applaud another losing season when we don't have one lockdown defender, one reliable outside shooter, one great passer/ball handler and no one besides balkman that can block a shot.

All you need to know about Eddy Curry is this
Balkman 32blks Curry 27blks
Anji
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2/15/2007  3:42 PM
There is a big difference between this stupid topic, about "Haters" and "Lovers"


Haters are stupid and the lovers are smart.
*MY 100 word eassay about of my point of veiw of what is happening and where this team can go.*

LOL, what do you think being a fan is??? YOu might as well root for another team that's winning and when they fall apart you can be "Realistic" jump boat again and hop back on the knicks......

[Edited by - anji on 02-15-2007 3:43 PM]
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
TrueBlue
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2/15/2007  3:45 PM
Posted by MS:

There is a big difference between this stupid topic, about "Haters" and "Lovers"

The Lovers don't have a ****ing clue.....period and thats not a shot, its a fact.



All you need to know about Eddy Curry is this
Balkman 32blks Curry 27blks

MS


In the words of Young Jeezy


Deeeaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmm!
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
nykshaknbake
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2/15/2007  4:56 PM
Seriously, the haters on the board are worse than fans trolling for other teams. After every loss, (like today 3 anti-Knick topics started by BlueSeats/TrueBlue) there's all this ass-kissing to other teams and their players and repetitive diatribes ripping ours. Seriously, the only thing sepreating folks like TB and Isles from Nets and Heat fans are that they seem to have been displaced to here.
Posted by Anji:

There is a big difference between this stupid topic, about "Haters" and "Lovers"


Haters are stupid and the lovers are smart.
*MY 100 word eassay about of my point of veiw of what is happening and where this team can go.*

LOL, what do you think being a fan is??? YOu might as well root for another team that's winning and when they fall apart you can be "Realistic" jump boat again and hop back on the knicks......

[Edited by - anji on 02-15-2007 3:43 PM]



[Edited by - nykshaknbake on 02-15-2007 4:57 PM]
TMS
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2/15/2007  5:38 PM
Posted by Solace:

Excellent post. It seems like the expectations are fitted to the situation wherever it's convenient. If we went 0-82, there would be excuses for that too.

the only change in expectations i've been noticing are from those people who predicted a bad season at the beginning of the season & yet are still now complaining every other day about the team's W-L record at this point... it seems they expect a playoff contender from a team that just about everyone here knew was still a couple years away from reaching that point.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Solace
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2/15/2007  5:52 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Solace:

Excellent post. It seems like the expectations are fitted to the situation wherever it's convenient. If we went 0-82, there would be excuses for that too.

the only change in expectations i've been noticing are from those people who predicted a bad season at the beginning of the season & yet are still now complaining every other day about the team's W-L record at this point... it seems they expect a playoff contender from a team that just about everyone here knew was still a couple years away from reaching that point.

Couldn't be further from the truth. The complaints have nothing to do with record. It's been said time and time again. We have a goal; a championship. Our goal is not a first round exit so Dolan makes a few extra million.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
BRIGGS
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2/15/2007  5:52 PM
Posted by MS:

There is a big difference between this stupid topic, about "Haters" and "Lovers"

The Lovers don't have a ****ing clue.....period and thats not a shot, its a fact.

1. We have no room to operate, we are stuck with terrible mismatched parts
2. Isiah is dumb, who gives out a 7 year deal to a player like Crawford, 5 years for Jerome James for the full midlevel right at the begining of the summer, Including a 15% trade kicker on a player thats not worth the vetran minimum in JJ.
3. Marbury, Francis, Q could all go down at any second, Q has a number of years left, JJ1 has foot problems, JJ2 looks like he is injury prone because of his frail body.
4. Isiah has been coaching as a gm
5. He allows Crawford and Curry to get away with murder on defense, whats Eddys motivation to try on defense when he is allowed to be the focal point while not trying
6. We can't get much better, Crawford will never play defense improve his shot selection and use his abilities the way he should, Eddy will never make the effort on defense, Frye can't make it as a powerfoward, we have mentally weak players, Nate enjoys himself win or lose. 8 players on this roster can't be moved for anything positive
7. Dolan is concerned with revenue not creating a winner
8. This team gets blown out to often and quits more than it should.
9. There is a sense of entitlement that prevents this team from really becoming good.
10. Balkman doesn't play, why you tell me.

We have two players on the team bring it everytime they are on the floor. Balkman and Lee

If there was something to be excited about other than those two i really don't know what it is, Curry is a great scorer, so was Chris Gatling, Lee Nailon, Shareef got you 20 and 10 steph got you 20 and 8, but what matters is doing the little things and playing the right way. Eddy could be so good its scary if he just tried. We would have a franchise player we would have hope, but he never will.....

Haters are just realists, I am not going to get excited about players getting paid millions to compete, and not quiting out there. And we shouldn't have to commend Marbury for realizing his image and career were going down the toilet and actually becoming a good defender all of a sudden.....

I'll go to war with Q, Lee and Balkman, and Marbury to a lesser extent because he plays through pain.....

But with no flexibility and really tradable assets I am not going to applaud another losing season when we don't have one lockdown defender, one reliable outside shooter, one great passer/ball handler and no one besides balkman that can block a shot.

All you need to know about Eddy Curry is this
Balkman 32blks Curry 27blks


I'm in my own camp:) I'm not a hater or a lover[although being a lover is nicer:)] I DO believe we have some parts here--I'm a big believer of the NEW Curry David Lee IF Crawford can be consistent --so I have a BIG 3. NOW the deal is--is Q rich reliable to play 80 games next year? What can I do to enhance the BIG 3? How do I value Channing Frye to this team? Can I trade Frye into the draft for a pick that will net me a Noah and his buddy Brewer with our own? Can I get some pro shooters -some proven vets who can shoot iut and play team basketball? Can I incorporate Balkman in now so he can be utilyzed next year? We have a core--a big 3 but we dont have the right players next to them and we may have to give up frye to help start this --along the lines of what toronto did--the problem we have noiw is it who is in command wont trade his guys--he wont entertain trading frye for a different package
RIP Crushalot😞
TMS
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2/15/2007  6:17 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Solace:

Excellent post. It seems like the expectations are fitted to the situation wherever it's convenient. If we went 0-82, there would be excuses for that too.

the only change in expectations i've been noticing are from those people who predicted a bad season at the beginning of the season & yet are still now complaining every other day about the team's W-L record at this point... it seems they expect a playoff contender from a team that just about everyone here knew was still a couple years away from reaching that point.

Couldn't be further from the truth. The complaints have nothing to do with record. It's been said time and time again. We have a goal; a championship. Our goal is not a first round exit so Dolan makes a few extra million.

the goal is a longterm goal, not a short term, 1 year fix... you have to be patient & expect to go through some ups & downs on the path towards building to that championship... the fact that Dolan has finally seemed to put an end to irresponsible spending on contracts by buying out Mo T & Jalen & ensuring that no more expiring deals are traded for longterm contracts should be an encouraging sign that he finally gets it... if he goes off & gives Isiah the go ahead to trade for Ray Allen or someone of that nature at the trade deadline, then i can understand anyone here who wants to complain that the team is in an irreversible cycle of futility towards ever reaching that goal... i've been as frustrated as you or anyone else here over the past few years over this team's lack of vision, but this season i finally see some talented young players being developed, & a team that's starting to form some good chemistry... i haven't seen that since Grunfeld was fired.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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