Posted by tomverve:

Posted by bigbeast:

One of my math teachers once told me that numbers don't lie. You can't argue with a number.

You're right, you can't argue with a number. But the +/- does not say that a player *caused* his team to play that much better (or worse). We can't argue that the Knicks have been slightly outscored with Curry on the floor. But that observation alone doesn't imply that Curry's impact on the Knicks' success is negligible.

Last year, Kirk Heinrich (-3.7) and Andres Nocioni (-5.8) both had negative +/-s. Does that mean the Bulls were better off without them or should have benched them? Did their play actually bring the Bulls down? No, you can't draw that conclusion. That's like concluding that since most animals that have beaks can fly, having a beak must enable flight.

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by tomverve:

Posted by bigbeast:

One of my math teachers once told me that numbers don't lie. You can't argue with a number.

You're right, you can't argue with a number. But the +/- does not say that a player *caused* his team to play that much better (or worse). We can't argue that the Knicks have been slightly outscored with Curry on the floor. But that observation alone doesn't imply that Curry's impact on the Knicks' success is negligible.

Last year, Kirk Heinrich (-3.7) and Andres Nocioni (-5.8) both had negative +/-s. Does that mean the Bulls were better off without them or should have benched them? Did their play actually bring the Bulls down? No, you can't draw that conclusion. That's like concluding that since most animals that have beaks can fly, having a beak must enable flight.

You beat me to the punch. One cannot take these numbers and draw the conclusions that are being drawn. I am totally unfamiliar with a line of thinking that says that a guy who is averaging 18 and 8, is forcing the other team to double team and foul, has no impact on the game.