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Jermaine O'Neal Trade
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simrud
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1/8/2007  4:48 PM
If we are going to trade for him, than Curry has to be traded also. Can't have 2 go to guys in the post. One of them will be totally useless, that being Curry since he does not do anything but score.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
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Ira
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1/8/2007  5:16 PM
Posted by kevlofton:
Posted by Ira:

That trade makes us better short term, but hurts us long term. You're probably right about having to give up Lee to do it, but sometimes the best trades are the one you don't make. So, I'd pass on that one.
Ira,

Do you think Lee will ever become as good offensive as O'neal. He blocks shot, rebounds and scores and he's only 28.

You're right. Lee probably won't be able to score like O'Neal. But he's getting better offensively, he passes very well, he's a world class rebounder and he's probably about 5 years younger. I see your point. I'd like to get JO. I'd throw in Frye a draft pick another decent player. But I'd hold on to Lee. He has a little of Artest in that he adds so much more than his stats.
TMS
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1/8/2007  5:24 PM
exactly Ira... D Lee is a rare type of player in that he can average a double double & not get 1 play called for him on offense... he gets everything playing off of other guys who dominate the ball... you don't come across guys like that everyday... he's a keeper for sure unless u can get a Lebron, Kobe or a Dwight Howard, which obviously won't happen.
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Bonn1997
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1/8/2007  6:06 PM
Posted by simrud:

If we are going to trade for him, than Curry has to be traded also. Can't have 2 go to guys in the post. One of them will be totally useless, that being Curry since he does not do anything but score.
You can put them on opposite sides of the post and there won't be any weakside help from the defense's big man. You can also draw double teams from either side of the offense (e.g., the left with Curry and the right with JO). Also, if Curry plays 32 mpg and JO 38, you could potentially have 26 min (more than half the game) with one on the court and the other off the court.
TMS
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1/8/2007  6:24 PM
You can put them on opposite sides of the post and there won't be any weakside help from the defense's big man.

i'm trying to think of any NBA team that really ever made that work - having 2 dominant low post players working down low at the same time... San Antonio maaaaaybe when they had Robinson & Duncan working down low? but was David Robinson really a focal point of the offense by that point? he was playing more of a supportive role & backing up Duncan, along w/hitting some perimeter shots & focusing on the defense... he sacrificed for the good of the team because he knew he wouldn't win a title w/o Duncan there... would JO be willing to do the same & play David Robinson's role? i don't know... i think he's looking to be the main cog on a championship contending team, not a supporting player, & Eddy's just now getting used to his role as the go to guy on this team, i don't think he could make the adjustment either... besides, if he's not going to dominate in the post, what role does he really have on this team? he has no perimeter game & he's not a great defender or rebounder... he needs to be the central focus on offense down low to be effective.

the Houston Rockets tried that w/Sampson & Olajuwon too back in the day i vaguely recall (didn't watch that many Rocket games to be honest though)... don't recall if Sampson was ever a dominant low post player in the NBA as Olajuwon was, but he was a stud back in his college days... eventually the Rockets figured out that the Twin Towers gimmick wouldn't work, so they went w/Olajuwon & they went on to win 2 NBA titles by building around him w/the right supporting cast.

there's really only room for 1 big dog down in the paint... a guy like JO doesn't really fit here as long as Curry is on the team... KG would be a much more appropriate addition to fit in w/what the team needs, & that's shotblocking, defense, passing & perimeter shooting from a frontcourt player... plus he's a very unselfish type of player that is more likely to play second fiddle & play much more of a versatile role if it means getting into the Finals... i don't know if JO is ready to make that sacrifice just yet.

this isn't to say Curry is better than either one of those guys obviously... just that he's not likely to be able to play off someone else & still be effective... he needs to be fed the ball & fed it often for him to make an impact on games... i don't ever see him coming off the bench or being that dirty work type player either, so forget about putting him into that type of a role.
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nykshaknbake
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1/8/2007  6:37 PM
The thing with having JO is yeah it doesn't make mesh well into our offensive scheme, but you're getting a pretty darn good rebounder and serious interior defensive prescence, along with his potent offensive game. . I think this is one of those trades you have to concede it may come back to haunt you but you make because it turns your frontcourt into a CHampionship caliber one for years.
Posted by TMS:
You can put them on opposite sides of the post and there won't be any weakside help from the defense's big man.

i'm trying to think of any NBA team that really ever made that work - having 2 dominant low post players working down low at the same time... San Antonio maaaaaybe when they had Robinson & Duncan working down low? but was David Robinson really a focal point of the offense by that point? he was playing more of a supportive role & backing up Duncan, along w/hitting some perimeter shots & focusing on the defense... he sacrificed for the good of the team because he knew he wouldn't win a title w/o Duncan there... would JO be willing to do the same & play David Robinson's role? i don't know... i think he's looking to be the main cog on a championship contending team, not a supporting player, & Eddy's just now getting used to his role as the go to guy on this team, i don't think he could make the adjustment either... besides, if he's not going to dominate in the post, what role does he really have on this team? he has no perimeter game & he's not a great defender or rebounder... he needs to be the central focus on offense down low to be effective.

the Houston Rockets tried that w/Sampson & Olajuwon too back in the day i vaguely recall (didn't watch that many Rocket games to be honest though)... don't recall if Sampson was ever a dominant low post player in the NBA as Olajuwon was, but he was a stud back in his college days... eventually the Rockets figured out that the Twin Towers gimmick wouldn't work, so they went w/Olajuwon & they went on to win 2 NBA titles by building around him w/the right supporting cast.

there's really only room for 1 big dog down in the paint... a guy like JO doesn't really fit here as long as Curry is on the team... KG would be a much more appropriate addition to fit in w/what the team needs, & that's shotblocking, defense, passing & perimeter shooting from a frontcourt player... plus he's a very unselfish type of player that is more likely to play second fiddle & play much more of a versatile role if it means getting into the Finals... i don't know if JO is ready to make that sacrifice just yet.

this isn't to say Curry is better than either one of those guys obviously... just that he's not likely to be able to play off someone else & still be effective... he needs to be fed the ball & fed it often for him to make an impact on games... i don't ever see him coming off the bench or being that dirty work type player either, so forget about putting him into that type of a role.
NYKresurrection
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1/8/2007  6:43 PM
New York Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Steve Francis
6-3 PG from Maryland
14.4 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 4.9 apg in 34.2 minutes
Jared Jeffries
6-11 SF from Indiana
6.3 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 1.9 apg in 25.4 minutes
Channing Frye
6-11 C from Arizona
12.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 24.2 minutes
Nate Robinson
5-9 PG from Washington
9.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 2.0 apg in 21.4 minutes
Incoming
Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 PF from Eau Claire (HS)
20.1 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.6 apg in 35.3 minutes
Jamaal Tinsley
6-1 PG from Iowa State
9.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 5.0 apg in 26.7 minutes
Change in team outlook: -12.9 ppg, -4.6 rpg, and -2.0 apg.


Indiana Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 PF from Eau Claire (HS)
20.1 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.6 apg in 35.3 minutes
Jamaal Tinsley
6-1 PG from Iowa State
9.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 5.0 apg in 26.7 minutes
Incoming
Steve Francis
6-3 PG from Maryland
14.4 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 4.9 apg in 34.2 minutes
Jared Jeffries
6-11 SF from Indiana
6.3 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 1.9 apg in 25.4 minutes
Channing Frye
6-11 C from Arizona
12.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 24.2 minutes
Nate Robinson
5-9 PG from Washington
9.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 2.0 apg in 21.4 minutes
Change in team outlook: +12.9 ppg, +4.6 rpg, and +2.0 apg.



Successful Scenario
Due to New York and Indiana being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. New York and Indiana had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Trade ID
Every trade made by fans is allocated a unique Trade ID which you can share with friends and fellow basketball fans to allow them to see your trade scenario. The Trade ID for this scenario is 3581101.

GOD arose JESUS from the grave !!! Isiah arose the Knicks from their grave !!!
NYKresurrection
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1/8/2007  6:48 PM
NY

C = Curry
PF = O'neal
SF = Q
SG = Craw
PG = Marbs

6th Tinsley

Plus we gain 2 roster spots !!!

Indy

C = Frye
PF = Jefferies
SF = Harrington
SG = Jackson
PG = Francis
GOD arose JESUS from the grave !!! Isiah arose the Knicks from their grave !!!
bigbeast
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1/8/2007  6:50 PM
Posted by TMS:
You can put them on opposite sides of the post and there won't be any weakside help from the defense's big man.

i'm trying to think of any NBA team that really ever made that work - having 2 dominant low post players working down low at the same time... San Antonio maaaaaybe when they had Robinson & Duncan working down low? but was David Robinson really a focal point of the offense by that point? he was playing more of a supportive role & backing up Duncan, along w/hitting some perimeter shots & focusing on the defense... he sacrificed for the good of the team because he knew he wouldn't win a title w/o Duncan there... would JO be willing to do the same & play David Robinson's role? i don't know... i think he's looking to be the main cog on a championship contending team, not a supporting player, & Eddy's just now getting used to his role as the go to guy on this team, i don't think he could make the adjustment either... besides, if he's not going to dominate in the post, what role does he really have on this team? he has no perimeter game & he's not a great defender or rebounder... he needs to be the central focus on offense down low to be effective.

the Houston Rockets tried that w/Sampson & Olajuwon too back in the day i vaguely recall (didn't watch that many Rocket games to be honest though)... don't recall if Sampson was ever a dominant low post player in the NBA as Olajuwon was, but he was a stud back in his college days... eventually the Rockets figured out that the Twin Towers gimmick wouldn't work, so they went w/Olajuwon & they went on to win 2 NBA titles by building around him w/the right supporting cast.

there's really only room for 1 big dog down in the paint... a guy like JO doesn't really fit here as long as Curry is on the team... KG would be a much more appropriate addition to fit in w/what the team needs, & that's shotblocking, defense, passing & perimeter shooting from a frontcourt player... plus he's a very unselfish type of player that is more likely to play second fiddle & play much more of a versatile role if it means getting into the Finals... i don't know if JO is ready to make that sacrifice just yet.

this isn't to say Curry is better than either one of those guys obviously... just that he's not likely to be able to play off someone else & still be effective... he needs to be fed the ball & fed it often for him to make an impact on games... i don't ever see him coming off the bench or being that dirty work type player either, so forget about putting him into that type of a role.

Totally agree, KG would be a better fit to play next to Curry. H'es a better rebounder than JO, can block shots, and can dominate a game without getting in Curry's way. Not to mention, he is an excellent passer. Problem with Kg is there is a lot of milage on KG's legs and while he hasn't shown any wear and tear as of yet, he still worries me for the future.
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
crzymdups
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1/8/2007  6:52 PM
Yeah, I would only trade JOneal for Curry and at this point, Curry is the better offensive player. But you can't have two guys who need the ball in the post that much.
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TMS
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1/8/2007  6:54 PM
yeah, he worries me too, & it would take way too much to make trading for him make sense imo... i wouldn't mortgage everything on a 3 year run w/KG, Marbury & Curry & then have to start all over again rebuilding this franchise when that fails to bring us a championship.
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Queeniepop
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1/8/2007  6:55 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

frye + dlee for jermaine? you HAVE to pull the trigger on that.

it's not just jermaine you're getting, but a combo of jermaine AND curry.

that's a big time frontline that CAN get to the finals. combine that with marbury and you got something cooking.

you make the deal.

but come on people, let's deal with the real world here. the knicks are not going to wait on frye and lee if it means getting jermaine or kg. either one propel us into an area we haven't been in for 7 years.

I AGREE. Its great and all that we are seeing development and significant growth in a player like David. Its peachy that we have a seven footer that can shoot from the outside in Frye. BUT we are talking about WHAT WE NEED HERE and that is a defensive two way player a la KG or JO...you make the deal YESTERDAY, TODAY, TOMORROW or at any point in time.

We're talking about championship bid by contending for the East here. Not looking to get a bid in to the eighth seed. This team has not won a championship for 34 years...YOU PULL THE TRIGGER and mortgage the house for the #8 and #30 overall picks of the 2005 Draft...and if the house, that's not saying much. On that note, we really have nothing to trade for JO or a player of similar calibur.

crzymdups
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1/8/2007  7:38 PM
There's no way under the sun that Jermaine O'neal and Curry would get to the Finals together.

I'm sorry, it would just never happen. Their games are redundant. Jermaine O'neal and David Lee might be able to get to the Finals together.
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oohah
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1/8/2007  7:58 PM
Posted by Queeniepop:
Posted by djsunyc:

frye + dlee for jermaine? you HAVE to pull the trigger on that.

it's not just jermaine you're getting, but a combo of jermaine AND curry.

that's a big time frontline that CAN get to the finals. combine that with marbury and you got something cooking.

you make the deal.

but come on people, let's deal with the real world here. the knicks are not going to wait on frye and lee if it means getting jermaine or kg. either one propel us into an area we haven't been in for 7 years.

I AGREE. Its great and all that we are seeing development and significant growth in a player like David. Its peachy that we have a seven footer that can shoot from the outside in Frye. BUT we are talking about WHAT WE NEED HERE and that is a defensive two way player a la KG or JO...you make the deal YESTERDAY, TODAY, TOMORROW or at any point in time.

We're talking about championship bid by contending for the East here. Not looking to get a bid in to the eighth seed. This team has not won a championship for 34 years...YOU PULL THE TRIGGER and mortgage the house for the #8 and #30 overall picks of the 2005 Draft...and if the house, that's not saying much. On that note, we really have nothing to trade for JO or a player of similar calibur.

Queenie, the problem with O'Neal is that you lose him for 20 games season lately. He has back trouble and has hurt his wheels pretty badly too. I don't think that stuff will get any better.

KG I think you have to think aqbout pretty hard.

If the Knicks trade our burgeoning youth, I want a player entering his prime or somebody who is going to maintain his prime-level for a while, no more damaged goods.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
djsunyc
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1/8/2007  8:11 PM
Posted by oohah:

KG I think you have to think about pretty hard.

no offense oohah but are you borderline short yellow bus material?

you TRADE FOR KG. no questions, no doubts, no hesitations, no nothing.

frye is nice. lee is nice. KG is special.
Queeniepop
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1/8/2007  8:21 PM
Queenie, the problem with O'Neal is that you lose him for 20 games season lately. He has back trouble and has hurt his wheels pretty badly too. I don't think that stuff will get any better.

KG I think you have to think aqbout pretty hard.

If the Knicks trade our burgeoning youth, I want a player entering his prime or somebody who is going to maintain his prime-level for a while, no more damaged goods.

oohah

JO is 28 yrs old...if I am mistaken, a big man's prime is 28-33 yrs old. AND Isiah is known for taking damaged goods on more than one occassion (see Q, see Francis). I am not advocating for trading youth, but the reality is that either player would make our team INFINITELY better. And Curry at 24 yrs with JO at 28 is a front court for the next five yrs.

Jermaine O'Neal

19.3 ppg
10.6 rpg
3.0 apg
3.1 bpg

Ranks #1 in the NBA in Blocks Per Game(3.18)
Ranks #10 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds(232.0)
Ranks #5 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per Game(8.3)
Ranks #12 in the NBA in Total Rebounds(296.0)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Blocks(89.0)
Ranks #39 in the NBA in Points(540.0)
Ranks #8 in the NBA in Double-doubles(18.0)
Ranks #15 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking(23.86)
Ranks #12 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking Per 48 Minutes(32.06)

Anyone who has to think hard about KG needs a reality check. It's K f-in G.

Kevin Garnett

22.4 ppg
12.4 rpg
4.3 apg
1.9 bpg

Ranks #16 in the NBA in Points Per Game(22.4)
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Rebounds Per Game(12.4)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds(319.0)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per Game(10.0)
Ranks #3 in the NBA in Total Rebounds(398.0)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Double-doubles(28.0)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Total Efficiency Points(938.0)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking(29.31)
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking Per 48 Minutes(36.13)

However the reality is WE'RE NOT GETTING either players sans an exp. deal or sans Frye and/or Lee. I wouldnt be surprised if GM's asked for Lee over Frye.
oohah
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1/8/2007  8:42 PM
JO is 28 yrs old...if I am mistaken, a big man's prime is 28-33 yrs old. AND Isiah is known for taking damaged goods on more than one occassion (see Q, see Francis). I am not advocating for trading youth, but the reality is that either player would make our team INFINITELY better. And Curry at 24 yrs with JO at 28 is a front court for the next five yrs.

Yes it is the prime for healthy players. Nobody is denying O'Neals talent. But he has missed significant portions of recent seasons and been hurt in the playoffs too. I just don't want another damaged player, while the young guys we traded him for are developing nicely. Do you feel me on that?
Anyone who has to think hard about KG needs a reality check. It's K f-in G.

no offense oohah but are you borderline short yellow bus material?

you TRADE FOR KG. no questions, no doubts, no hesitations, no nothing.

frye is nice. lee is nice. KG is special.

You guys are reminding me of Isiah Thomas now!! It really depends on the deal doesn't it? Are we throwing in Draft picks? Are we lottery protecting them? Will there be enough team left over after getting a Garnett to make the deal one that makes us better? Have you all seen what is happening out there in Minnesota? Garnett needs help too, but it would take trading most of our help to land him!

If we are giving up the farm to field a Marbury and Garnett duo, then I want a time machine so I can get them from 10 years ago!

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 08-01-2007 8:43 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
djsunyc
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1/8/2007  8:48 PM
it's not the farm b/c we'd still have curry.

marbury/kg/curry is a good enough trio to challenge in the east.
oohah
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1/8/2007  8:56 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

it's not the farm b/c we'd still have curry.

marbury/kg/curry is a good enough trio to challenge in the east.

I really think a plausible trade for KG would start with Curry and would be Curry/Lee or Curry/Frye and it might take a pick too. That is steep, and if you didn't think about that for a minute, then I would have to think that you were borderline-not the long bus

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
djsunyc
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1/8/2007  8:58 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by djsunyc:

it's not the farm b/c we'd still have curry.

marbury/kg/curry is a good enough trio to challenge in the east.

I really think a plausible trade for KG would start with Curry and would be Curry/Lee or Curry/Frye and it might take a pick too. That is steep, and if you didn't think about that for a minute, then I would have to think that you were borderline-not the long bus

oohah

i'm going on frye + lee + filler/picks for him. not curry. you don't trade curry for him. you trade for KG to play WITH curry. they can have everybody else.
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