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Marcus Williams vs. Renaldo Balkman - Who's really better.
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MS
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1/8/2007  2:37 PM
I always said when arguing about this with people," dont you think Isiah realized that Balkman could be available with our later pick? Dont you think it crossed his mind!" If Isiah thought the guy he wanted might not be available then who are we to doubt him? This guy probably put in hundereds of hours scouting players and recieved intelligence about other teams intentions that the media will never hear about. So if the guy that he wanted NEEDED to be scooped up with an early pick, then I trust that Isiah (who we all agree knows how to draft) made the right decision

You should be kicked off the site and lose posting privledges for saying something so ****ing dumb.....In all honesty do you think anything ever crosses Isiahs mind.....

Such as:
1. If Jerome James has never been in shape, and only shows flashes during a contract year, might there be a good chance he is going to be a disaster.
2. Can i purchase a late draft pick for $3 million dollars (the suns were more than willing to give theirs away) or do i need to take 30 million in salary to get a player that wasn't in the media guide on draft day.
3. Can trading for a guard like Steve Francis that everyone wanted to get rid because he has acted like a child his entire career a good move......
4. Jefferies has no offensive abilities if he is such a lock down defender in the first team all defense mode why am i the only one that is interested....
5. If chicago doesn't want to sign crawford to a contract why do i help give them cap relief to get him
6. If Q has a bad back that isn't insured, might there be a good chance there is a reason for it
7. If everyone has a problem with your pg, might it be your pg is the problem? D Miles is a knick right now if Nash signs off on the deal, Isiah wanted another corrupt player with attitude issues

Seriously who are you not to doubt him.........hundred of hours of video, that is ****ing laughable
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oohah
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1/8/2007  2:42 PM
Posted by playa2:
Posted by rojasmas:

Marcus Williams is no Deron Williams.

Deron's rookie yr hmmm.... I would say Marcus Williams is better.

Marcus Williams is not even close to being as good as Deron Williams in his rookie year: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3929/gamelog;_ylt=AuXXUynJ7gDlnQ9aRU1mYsekvLYF?year=2005

oohah
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
martin
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1/8/2007  2:48 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by playa2:
Posted by rojasmas:

Marcus Williams is no Deron Williams.

Deron's rookie yr hmmm.... I would say Marcus Williams is better.

Marcus Williams is not even close to being as good as Deron Williams in his rookie year: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3929/gamelog;_ylt=AuXXUynJ7gDlnQ9aRU1mYsekvLYF?year=2005

oohah

are their situation similar? Do they get the same minutes? Do they have similar teammates? Are their roles similar?
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TMS
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1/8/2007  2:52 PM
how many minutes do you think MW would be getting playing alongside Marbury, Francis, Crawford & Nate right about now, martin? are the Knicks any more of an ideal situation than the Nets are for MW to grow & develop in?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
oohah
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1/8/2007  2:55 PM
are their situation similar?

Yes and No.
Do they get the same minutes?

They were until M. Williams started getting his minutes cut.

Do they have similar teammates?

Yes and No.
Are their roles similar?

They were supposed to be, but M. Williams plays more like a shooting guard.

---

Deron Williams had a better rookie year up to this point. No Question. Still have a half-season+ to go to determine for sure.

Do you think Marcus Williams has had as good a rookie year as Deron Williams did?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
MS
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1/8/2007  2:56 PM
I think the nets are because he is actually practicing with a great player one of the better pgs to play this game as opposed to our guards, the legends in their own minds......

Comparing the two isn't easy because neither get minutes, williams is in a tough spot because kidd plays the whole game. I think eventually this discussion will not be close, as williams would have fit better into the overall team strategy....
izybx
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1/8/2007  3:04 PM
Posted by MS:

I always said when arguing about this with people," dont you think Isiah realized that Balkman could be available with our later pick? Dont you think it crossed his mind!" If Isiah thought the guy he wanted might not be available then who are we to doubt him? This guy probably put in hundereds of hours scouting players and recieved intelligence about other teams intentions that the media will never hear about. So if the guy that he wanted NEEDED to be scooped up with an early pick, then I trust that Isiah (who we all agree knows how to draft) made the right decision

You should be kicked off the site and lose posting privledges for saying something so ****ing dumb.....In all honesty do you think anything ever crosses Isiahs mind.....

Such as:
1. If Jerome James has never been in shape, and only shows flashes during a contract year, might there be a good chance he is going to be a disaster.
2. Can i purchase a late draft pick for $3 million dollars (the suns were more than willing to give theirs away) or do i need to take 30 million in salary to get a player that wasn't in the media guide on draft day.
3. Can trading for a guard like Steve Francis that everyone wanted to get rid because he has acted like a child his entire career a good move......
4. Jefferies has no offensive abilities if he is such a lock down defender in the first team all defense mode why am i the only one that is interested....
5. If chicago doesn't want to sign crawford to a contract why do i help give them cap relief to get him
6. If Q has a bad back that isn't insured, might there be a good chance there is a reason for it
7. If everyone has a problem with your pg, might it be your pg is the problem? D Miles is a knick right now if Nash signs off on the deal, Isiah wanted another corrupt player with attitude issues

Seriously who are you not to doubt him.........hundred of hours of video, that is ****ing laughable

Okay man first of all calm the **** down im just talking about the knicks you dont need act like a little girl about it. If you want to have a conversation with me then be respectful and act like an adult otherwise dont respond to my posts.

Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
MS
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1/8/2007  3:25 PM
don't make crazy claims and endorse artificial man in basketball, and i am calm that was just absurd with the hundreds of hours of scouting
izybx
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1/8/2007  3:30 PM
Posted by MS:

don't make crazy claims and endorse artificial man in basketball, and i am calm that was just absurd with the hundreds of hours of scouting

Im not endorsing artificial man in basketball, whatever that means. And I can make whatever claims I want without having you cursing and crying. I think we can all be respectful regardless of whether or not you agree with someone else. If you really cant handle that, then maybe you shouldnt respond to my posts. BTW its not like I jock Isiah, I call him out when I feel he deserves to be called out. But if I want to give him the benefit of the doubt about something then I should be able to without being someone ranting about how "****ing dumb" my opinions are. I dont know if you are having a bad day or something, but try to take it easy a little bit.
Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
TMS
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1/8/2007  3:34 PM
just respond like i always do when MS goes off on his tirades:
hey bro... take a few of these & call me in the morning

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
MS
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1/8/2007  3:41 PM
Its kinda laughable to give him the benefit of the doubt on anything, even drafting at this point, frye looks so one dimentional it's scary and there were a number of better players taken behind him.....namely one we really needed Granger a two way outside threat

And Nate looks nothing more than a one on one scorer that is going to be a defensive liability because of his size, hopefully he learns to get his teammates involved because if not he is just selfish and into self promotion....dime a dozen player

Lee looks like a stud, Balkman can be a nice rotation player if he works on his offense and collins looks like someone that may be a career backup, ariza was a nice find.....And from a villanova, guy lowry would have been better for this team than anyone....

I would say he has been a good drafter, not a great one, but his ability to draft is magnified because he is terrible at everything else
islesfan
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1/8/2007  4:21 PM
Balkman is pretty close to what you can expect from him his entire career. He's an energy role player who doesn't give you much offense.

Williams is nowhere near what he can be as a starting PG in the league. The learning curve for him is so much greater than it is for Balkman and his role. If Williams progresses as most people think he will, the comparisons between him and Balkman will be laughable at best.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
PresIke
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1/8/2007  4:27 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

i think that if a point guard can run an offense, then you can overlook his defensive inefficiencies. the guy is getting 4 other people involved.

Really?? It think that this kind of logic would only work if you had a good shot blocker and help defenders. If the whole team stunk at D (like the Knicks for the past few years) I suspect that those inefficiencies would be ridiculed...i.e. Marbury...more often than you suggest.

I know, I know...Marbury didn't run an offense well. I just find that hard to believe, since he averaged 8-9 assists a game. I think attitude and ability to fit, chemistry wise, with a team are also factors that people take into consideration about a player, no matter the position. I think anyone that is a bad defender is always going to get criticized.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
PresIke
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1/8/2007  4:28 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Balkman is pretty close to what you can expect from him his entire career. He's an energy role player who doesn't give you much offense.

Williams is nowhere near what he can be as a starting PG in the league. The learning curve for him is so much greater than it is for Balkman and his role. If Williams progresses as most people think he will, the comparisons between him and Balkman will be laughable at best.


You mean like comparing the role player Ben Wallace to the star Grant Hill?

Which would you rather have?

I'm just saying...

you never know, and it seems pretty darn early to pass judgement.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
TMS
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1/8/2007  4:29 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Balkman is pretty close to what you can expect from him his entire career. He's an energy role player who doesn't give you much offense.

you oughta apply for a job in the Knicks' front office if you can tell that based on a couple months of NBA games dude... who needs Jerry West or Rod Thorn when you can hire islesfan to judge young talent?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
djsunyc
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1/8/2007  4:29 PM
Posted by PresIke:

[quote]Posted by djsunyc:

I think anyone that is a bad defender is always going to get criticized.

i agree with that but the 2 time defending MVP in nash is not a great defender. he knows how to play some angles but he's not stopping anyone. i think a pg gets more slack tho b/c he has another huge responsibility. but you're right, if a guy can't play defense, he's going to get called out on it regardless.
PresIke
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1/8/2007  4:30 PM
Or heck Dennis Rodman. I mean the dude was a "role player" as well, but his hustle clearly helped those Bulls teams win, and the Pistons. It takes stars to mesh with great role players, but I think to so easily dismiss Balkman at this point is laughable at best.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
PresIke
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1/8/2007  4:32 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by PresIke:

[quote]Posted by djsunyc:

I think anyone that is a bad defender is always going to get criticized.

i agree with that but the 2 time defending MVP in nash is not a great defender. he knows how to play some angles but he's not stopping anyone. i think a pg gets more slack tho b/c he has another huge responsibility. but you're right, if a guy can't play defense, he's going to get called out on it regardless.


Fair point, DJ Su. Nash also has a Raja Bell who can play D on the perimeter, and shot blockers in Amare and Marion to help with his mistakes.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
islesfan
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1/8/2007  4:37 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by islesfan:

Balkman is pretty close to what you can expect from him his entire career. He's an energy role player who doesn't give you much offense.

you oughta apply for a job in the Knicks' front office if you can tell that based on a couple months of NBA games dude... who needs Jerry West or Rod Thorn when you can hire islesfan to judge young talent?

Well I did judge Isiah pretty early. How did I do on that one?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
izybx
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1/8/2007  4:40 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by islesfan:

Balkman is pretty close to what you can expect from him his entire career. He's an energy role player who doesn't give you much offense.

you oughta apply for a job in the Knicks' front office if you can tell that based on a couple months of NBA games dude... who needs Jerry West or Rod Thorn when you can hire islesfan to judge young talent?



Well I did judge Isiah pretty early. How did I do on that one?

I dunno eight more wins and he did just as good as your boy LB




[Edited by - izybx on 01-08-2007 4:40 PM]
Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
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Marcus Williams vs. Renaldo Balkman - Who's really better.
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