Posted by nyk4ever:

Crwaford was visibly a better player last year. I don't know if stats can back that up or not but he was taking midrange jumpshots, he was driving to the hole when the jumper wasn't open, he was playing a good all-around pointguard and he was playing defense. As I said, I don't know if stats back that up or not, but I saw it with my own eyes. This year, I again see Jamal chucking jumpers left and right and hardly ever taking the ball to the hoop.

Posted by misterearl:

nyk4ever - so Jamal go dumber this season?

Posted by oohah:

my argument was that Crawford had changed his game and that he took better direction under LB and it showed out with the stats. You site frye's 1 game example of 3 blocks as a way to show that he is a defender, there's big difference there. Showing a player's full career stats shows us squat unless you take the time to delve into it deeper. If you want to make generalizations like: hey, his FG% is the same so he must be the same player, than YAY. That let's me know how much thought you put into things.

FT vs 3points is an "Arbitrary stat"? I just showed you a trend over a full year versus what Crawford had done for his ENTIRE career in making my point that his game had changed. I think it's fairly solid: he changed from a guy who shot a lot of long distance crap to one that went to the basket more. I mean, what else would you want to see?

Why are you grabbing from other threads for this argument? What does this Frye have to do with JC? If you want to talk about me, by bringing up me "citing" Frye's 3 blocks in another post we can. However, I wasn't citing" anything, it was just an example. Just like someone might say: "X Player scored 50 last night". It also has nothing to do with our Crawford discussion.

it goes to the crux of how you argue. First you say stuff like, you cannot see a trend for a player until a full year has been played. Then, when someone says they think that Lee is a better defender than Frye, you go off and say "Frye had 3 blocks last night, Frye is a good defender". And then you hold others to a different standard when they are arguing their point. Be consistent.

Posted by oohah:

it goes to the crux of how you argue. First you say stuff like, you cannot see a trend for a player until a full year has been played. Then, when someone says they think that Lee is a better defender than Frye, you go off and say "Frye had 3 blocks last night, Frye is a good defender". And then you hold others to a different standard when they are arguing their point. Be consistent.

Somehow I think what I am writing is taking on a transformation as you are reading it. I never said Frye was a "good defensive player". I said he was a better help defensive player than Lee, he shuts down lanes and comes over to contest. I showed his 3 blocks as ONE example of it. Neither is a good defensive player, but Frye is better at a certain aspect of defense, while Lee is better at another.

Do you want a whole bunch of examples? I thought that was the thing that pissed off so many about me before? Sorry, I don't have the time right now anyway.

On the other hand you posted that Frye "doesn't get it", but "Lee is inexperienced". Not even ONE example of how that is. Huh? The way I argue is slanted? Gimme a break Martin!

And this whole business about how I hold people to this or that standard? Show me 10 examples please!

But seriously that is just not a good excuse. If you are mad at me, please don't make it seem as if it is right to start getting all personal. If I am unhappy with you, I will just come out and tell/ask you, just like I did above.

oohah

I am not unhappy with you, I want you to argue better.

Posted by oohah:
Blue, I think he is more at a happy medium now than one or another extreme. But he is inconsistent, that is the only thing consistent about Crawford. That is who Crawford is.

You know what I think the difference in Crawfords' shooting of 3's this year and last year? The coach told him to shoot less 3's, so he shot less 3's. The whole Knicks team shot less 3's with LB as coach, as did the Pistons when LB was there.

oohah

That's probably a good part of it. I also thing LB played him at PG more than Isiah, and that keeps his fadeaway chucking at bay.

All that being said, which style from Crawford do you prefer?

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by oohah:
Blue, I think he is more at a happy medium now than one or another extreme. But he is inconsistent, that is the only thing consistent about Crawford. That is who Crawford is.

I agree he's consistenlty inconsistent, and I agree he's probably happy in his present medium, I just don't know if I am.

You know what I think the difference in Crawfords' shooting of 3's this year and last year? The coach told him to shoot less 3's, so he shot less 3's. The whole Knicks team shot less 3's with LB as coach, as did the Pistons when LB was there.

oohah

That's probably a good part of it. I also thing LB played him at PG more than Isiah, and that keeps his fadeaway chucking at bay.

All that being said, which style from Crawford do you prefer?

I really don't think he is that different this year from last year or the year before that. Nothing dramatic at least. The difference in his game is mostly minutes. Overall I am not happy with him as a player. Even though he oozes talent and tantalizes with amazing plays,I prefer consistent guys. That is why I always have JC in my Ray Allen trade scenarios!

I think a lot of the perception of Crawford has to do with what they want to believe about thisyear/last year, Isiah/LB.

When I watch him play, he looks the same as he has the last 4 seasons, and his numbers the last 4 seasons, as well as the results of the teams he has played on support that.

oohah