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The difference between this year and last year.
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TMS
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12/28/2006  12:25 PM
Bobby, i pretty much said exactly what you did on the previous page about the players having fun... this was a separate discussion raised by nixluva on him being bashed for defending Marbury throughout the time he's been here.
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bigbeast
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12/28/2006  12:28 PM
Posted by TMS:

i'm fine w/keeping an open mind to see that bigbeast... if this is the most talent he's had around him since he's been a Knick, would it be fair to expect him to bring this team to round 2 of the playoffs, or are we just aiming at being a .500 team & calling that a success?

First, lets finish the year in better shape than the other teams he's played for in NY. I don't remember the record of the team that slipped into the playoffs and got bombed by New Jersey.

As far as making it to the second round, IDK. You have to take a look at the competition. a trip to the second round would mean that this team is one of the top 4 teams in the East. I don't even think you believe that.
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
TMS
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12/28/2006  12:32 PM
Posted by TheGame:

People who take this view ignore that the so-called revolt did not happen until very late in the season last year and was not caused by IT. IT gave LB all the support you could expect from a GM at the beginning of the year and for much of the year for that matter. LB totally alienated his players by making it loud and clear to everyone that he did not want most of them on the team and doing one of the worst coaching jobs every seen in the NBA. Why do people continue to make it out like IT undermined LB and caused the collapse. LB undermined himself.

yeah, i loved LB's hiring when it happened, but you have to be fair & say he played an equal role in his departure... IT didn't hire the guy just so he could undermine his authority... that's pointless & counterproductive... things ended up happening that way because of all the crap that ended up happening between the coach & the star player... at first IT was backing LB over anyone else on the team & he made that known to the public, but things became untenable between the player & the coach for various reasons w/equal parts of blame going to everyone involved... it was just a big mess all around... it's not as if IT orchestrated all that as if it were all a part of his grand scheme to take over the reigns to coach this franchise.
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TMS
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12/28/2006  12:39 PM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by TMS:

i'm fine w/keeping an open mind to see that bigbeast... if this is the most talent he's had around him since he's been a Knick, would it be fair to expect him to bring this team to round 2 of the playoffs, or are we just aiming at being a .500 team & calling that a success?

First, lets finish the year in better shape than the other teams he's played for in NY. I don't remember the record of the team that slipped into the playoffs and got bombed by New Jersey.

As far as making it to the second round, IDK. You have to take a look at the competition. a trip to the second round would mean that this team is one of the top 4 teams in the East. I don't even think you believe that.



i'll say this, if this team makes the playoffs this year & they're playing the way they are right now & give a good showing against a superior team even in a losing effort, i'd call this season a huge success... i'd also be giving Marbury big props, whether or not he puts up phenomenal #'s from here on out like he's done the past couple games, because in my view if a PG can lead his team in other ways besides putting up stats to help his team win games, then he's done his job as far as i'm concerned.

... on the other hand if they win just enough games to make the playoffs but get embarassed like they did during Marbury's 1st season here even w/Marbury putting up big #'s, then the only thing i'll call a success is the improvement in the play of our young guys that i've seen this season... i won't be giving Marbury much props for a successful season under those circumstances, i can tell u that much right now.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
oohah
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12/28/2006  12:42 PM
People who take this view ignore that the so-called revolt did not happen until very late in the season last year and was not caused by IT. IT gave LB all the support you could expect from a GM at the beginning of the year and for much of the year for that matter. LB totally alienated his players by making it loud and clear to everyone that he did not want most of them on the team and doing one of the worst coaching jobs every seen in the NBA. Why do people continue to make it out like IT undermined LB and caused the collapse. LB undermined himself.

There was no revolt. The coach quit on the team at minus 5 games into the season, and the players got the message at around game 50.

oohah


Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Bippity10
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12/28/2006  1:00 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by TMS:

i'm fine w/keeping an open mind to see that bigbeast... if this is the most talent he's had around him since he's been a Knick, would it be fair to expect him to bring this team to round 2 of the playoffs, or are we just aiming at being a .500 team & calling that a success?

First, lets finish the year in better shape than the other teams he's played for in NY. I don't remember the record of the team that slipped into the playoffs and got bombed by New Jersey.

As far as making it to the second round, IDK. You have to take a look at the competition. a trip to the second round would mean that this team is one of the top 4 teams in the East. I don't even think you believe that.



i'll say this, if this team makes the playoffs this year & they're playing the way they are right now & give a good showing against a superior team even in a losing effort, i'd call this season a huge success... i'd also be giving Marbury big props, whether or not he puts up phenomenal #'s from here on out like he's done the past couple games, because in my view if a PG can lead his team in other ways besides putting up stats to help his team win games, then he's done his job as far as i'm concerned.

... on the other hand if they win just enough games to make the playoffs but get embarassed like they did during Marbury's 1st season here even w/Marbury putting up big #'s, then the only thing i'll call a success is the improvement in the play of our young guys that i've seen this season... i won't be giving Marbury much props for a successful season under those circumstances, i can tell u that much right now.

It's a leadership issue and the GM, Coach and Star player showed absolutely no leadership last year. And noone stepped into the void. How people blame one guy over another is beyond me.

The bottom line is who cares. LB is gone. Where do we go from here is the question. Some never want to address that. Every year we blamed the coaches. Every year I said nothing would change until we got a GM and coach on the same page. Players had no reason to play hard for a coach or GM because they were running the asylum. They were in charge. IF they played poorly the coach would be fired the GM would be canned and they would be ignored or traded to a better situation(because it couldn't get worse).

Now our GM/coach has to be on the same page because he's the same person. Now what the GM says the caoch backs up and vice versa. If the coach doesn't like you he doesn't have to beg someone to get rid of you. He doesn't have to answer to someone above him why he benched a guy. He can just coach. If he doesn't like you, the GM doesn't like you either and finds a better fit. The players have no where to hide. They must play. It's a simple solution that I have been screaming about over and over and over for 7 years. Now it's happened and people still don't think it's real.
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Bippity10
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12/28/2006  1:03 PM
Isiah has done a solid job as coach. But to think he has performed some magic act is more the product of people trying to justify their "it was all LB's fault" agenda than it does deal with reality. The reality is Isiah is in charge, the players no he is in charge. There is noone in the organization that can refute it. So they must listen. WE could have reached this point years ago if we had just gotten two people on the same page. It's the only way to build and organization
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TMS
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12/28/2006  1:14 PM
Every year I said nothing would change until we got a GM and coach on the same page. Players had no reason to play hard for a coach or GM because they were running the asylum. They were in charge. IF they played poorly the coach would be fired the GM would be canned and they would be ignored or traded to a better situation(because it couldn't get worse).

Now our GM/coach has to be on the same page because he's the same person. Now what the GM says the caoch backs up and vice versa. If the coach doesn't like you he doesn't have to beg someone to get rid of you. He doesn't have to answer to someone above him why he benched a guy. He can just coach. If he doesn't like you, the GM doesn't like you either and finds a better fit. The players have no where to hide. They must play.

that's exactly the reason why i had no problem w/Isiah taking over as head coach when the LB experiment didn't work out... these players needed to take accountability for their own play & this organization needed to stop giving them excuses to use as scapegoats for their own failures.
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Bippity10
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12/28/2006  1:18 PM
I'm with you. Best case scenario to me now is to let Isiah focus on coaching. Then go out and get a proven builder that beleives in Isiah's plan. Not one that tells teh media he believes in LB's, or Don's or Lenny's plan. But one that actually believes in Isiah's plan and can focus on cultivating it. Not a shill for Isiah. But a proven builder that understands where we are going. Yes this will be hard to find but no that should not mean we don't try. Doing both is a tough task and has to many pitfalls.
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TMS
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12/28/2006  1:29 PM
that'll be tough to find... Isiah's got a big ego & i don't think he'll want to see anyone getting the credit for building on what he started, especially if this team starts to play well over the long haul.

maybe the only successful solution i can envision under the present circumstances while keeping Isiah is for a junior executive who has a great reputation in the league but has no problem laying in the background doing the gruntwork be hired to assist Isiah in his daily GM duties, negotiating trades & helping him scout prospects for the draft... that should lessen some of the load on Isiah so he can focus more attention on coaching, & still enable Isiah to be the figurehead who's ultimately held accountable for the success or failure of the team he essentially put together.

otherwise, i don't see Isiah working well w/another GM calling the shots above him, unless it was someone he had a close personal tie with & loads of respect for, like a Chuck Daly for example (no idea how good a job he could do as a GM though)
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bippity10
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12/28/2006  1:53 PM
I think that's pretty much how it will go.
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Elite
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12/28/2006  2:04 PM
Last year we were 10-21 after 31 games this year we are 13-18
Anji
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12/28/2006  2:46 PM
Posted by oohah:
People who take this view ignore that the so-called revolt did not happen until very late in the season last year and was not caused by IT. IT gave LB all the support you could expect from a GM at the beginning of the year and for much of the year for that matter. LB totally alienated his players by making it loud and clear to everyone that he did not want most of them on the team and doing one of the worst coaching jobs every seen in the NBA. Why do people continue to make it out like IT undermined LB and caused the collapse. LB undermined himself.

There was no revolt. The coach quit on the team at minus 5 games into the season, and the players got the message at around game 50.

oohah

LOL, too much credit. He quite on the 5 miles into the drive from the hamptons to the first day of pratice!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Bippity10
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12/28/2006  3:06 PM
The purpose of posts like these are not to actaully discuss what's different. It's to have an LB hating circle jizzerk

[Edited by - bippity10 on 12-28-2006 3:07 PM]
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Anji
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12/28/2006  3:11 PM
IF This is a jizz circle, then yours are a one man Larry-Brown-Anal-Bead-A-thon........ Lube up!!!!



[Edited by - anji on 12-28-2006 3:13 PM]
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Bobby
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12/28/2006  3:18 PM
Posted by TMS:

Bobby, i pretty much said exactly what you did on the previous page about the players having fun... this was a separate discussion raised by nixluva on him being bashed for defending Marbury throughout the time he's been here.

thanks for being positve. i hate having to be reminded what happened last year. eventhough we're no way near perfect its time to move forward and appreciate our players efforts and coaching support.





[Edited by - Bobby on 12-28-2006 3:20 PM]
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
oohah
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12/28/2006  3:30 PM
Posted by Anji:

IF This is a jizz circle, then yours are a one man Larry-Brown-Anal-Bead-A-thon........ Lube up!!!!



[Edited by - anji on 12-28-2006 3:13 PM]

Waste of time Anji, Bippity literally posted "I would have done the same exact thing" 1000 times about 98% of LB's moves last year, and now he is pissed.

On another note, one thing I am glad about is that Isiah has made a plan and is sticking to it, even if it meant making LB walk the 50 million dollar plank because he refused to get on board. There are more bumps in the road, so therefore I think we should be patient, so many will jump ship again at the next 2-3 game lose streak. But it is obvious that there is some good development happening with our youngsters individually, and with the team as a whole.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Masterplan
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12/28/2006  3:33 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by Anji:

IF This is a jizz circle, then yours are a one man Larry-Brown-Anal-Bead-A-thon........ Lube up!!!!



[Edited by - anji on 12-28-2006 3:13 PM]

Waste of time Anji, Bippity literally posted "I would have done the same exact thing" 1000 times about 98% of LB's moves last year, and now he is pissed.

On another note, one thing I am glad about is that Isiah has made a plan and is sticking to it, even if it meant making LB walk the 50 million dollar plank because he refused to get on board. There are more bumps in the road, so therefore I think we should be patient, so many will jump ship again at the next 2-3 game lose streak. But it is obvious that there is some good development happening with our youngsters individually, and with the team as a whole.

oohah

what's the plan?
oohah
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12/28/2006  3:38 PM
what's the plan?

Develop a youthful core of players who are athletic and have a wide range of abilities. Attack on offense. Adjust coaching strategy to fit players abilities and development as needed.

(And when the right opportunity comes along, attempt to land superstar.)

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Bippity10
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12/28/2006  3:43 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by Anji:

IF This is a jizz circle, then yours are a one man Larry-Brown-Anal-Bead-A-thon........ Lube up!!!!



[Edited by - anji on 12-28-2006 3:13 PM]

Waste of time Anji, Bippity literally posted "I would have done the same exact thing" 1000 times about 98% of LB's moves last year, and now he is pissed.

On another note, one thing I am glad about is that Isiah has made a plan and is sticking to it, even if it meant making LB walk the 50 million dollar plank because he refused to get on board. There are more bumps in the road, so therefore I think we should be patient, so many will jump ship again at the next 2-3 game lose streak. But it is obvious that there is some good development happening with our youngsters individually, and with the team as a whole.

oohah


Once again, here's Ooh ahh posting MY OPINION. For the 80th time if you are going to post my opinion about something give an exact quote or don't do it. Honestly of all the things on the board that people get upset about this is the one thing that I truly feel someone should be banned for. It's not posting. It's not humor. It's not expressing an opinion. It's flaming.

There is noone on this board that can say I have not been critical of LB, Isiah, Marbs, Curry, Frye, Stevie and everyone else. There is also noone that can say I haven't defended these guys to the hilt. The problem is you are so busy flaming that you have little time to read the actaul posts and instead just thrust your own "this is what he said" nonsense into it.

Last year I had no problem defending LB and do not apologize for it and will do it again. I have no problem saying he is a great coach worthy of the hall of fame. I do not apologize for this. I have no problem saying I would play for the guy and do not apologize for that. At the same time I have no problem saying he did a horrible job last year. I have no problem not missing him while he is gone. I have no problem with being angry at him for contributing to a wasted season.

I can say these things over and over, and you will believe half of the paragraph and dismiss the second half like the LB hating circle jizzerkers normally do. In your world you cannot beleive someone can have an opinion this way. If you dislike somehting someone does then you must dislike everything he does. This is why you and I have never had an actual basketball conversation. Ever. Because you don't discuss.

I call it the way I see it. And if I'm being unfair to someone call me out. But noone ever does, because in the end they know my opinion is fair and many times accurate. I challenge you to one day call me out on my opinion of one of our players and tell me I'm being unfair. The problem is you have no idea what my opinion of the players is because you are too busy flaming. That's what you do.

So anyway Anji. Ignore Oohahs posts and feel free to discuss the issues of last year with me if you like. I do not absolve LB of blame as well as I do not blame him for everything. I thought this post would be a good conversation about ALL THE ISSUES that have changed. As usual the same 4 or 5 posters discuss all the issues and then the rest focus upon LB. To me, it's boring. There is more to discuss than LB's fault or Marb's fault etc. or Curry's fault.


[Edited by - bippity10 on 12-28-2006 3:43 PM]
I just hope that people will like me
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