[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Why does the NBA go so bizzerk over fights? Baseball/Hockey/Football fight ALL THE TIME
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 3 of 5 ‹ Previous 1  2  3  4  5 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
islesfan
Posts: 9999
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
12/20/2006  12:02 AM
I like the joke I heard about Napolean having a Nate Robinson complex.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
AUTOADVERT
Killa4luv
Posts: 27773
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
12/20/2006  11:40 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:

As to the race issue, I really think it's more of a generational, or class (for lack of a better word), type issue. I doubt there are many black gentlemen of, say, Clyde's era, who feel bad that players are required to attend practice, dress professionally, keep their guns at home, not accost referees after every call, and to let the fans watch the game without fearing for their own personal safety. I really don't see what role race plays in that.

First all you have added a whole boatload of issues that no one was ever discussing in the first place. Practice, guns, accosting referees? What does that have to do with anything?Guns were always disallowed, and there have been all of what 1 or 2 gun issues in the last 10 years, I don't know why you even brought it up. Practice? We talking about practice? :)

Talking to referees? Who really cares? It has nothing to do with anything, it doesn't effect the game. He should have made flopping a point of emphasis and stated that sliding in front of a driving player is not defense. That would have been a much more meaningful change to the game.

Dress code has nothing to do with the game. Dressing professionally for a basketball player means wearing shorts and sneakers, or warmups or other basketball/sports attire. Basketball players are not businessmen, they are men who play a game for a living. I Don't see Bloomberg asking Sanitation workers to wear tuxedos and call it proffesional attire.

The dress code was directly aimed at the black players and the "hip hop" fashion, which makes it about race, and if you can't see that than we really have nothing to talk about.
Killa4luv
Posts: 27773
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
12/20/2006  11:55 AM
Posted by dannyweiss:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by Andrew:
Posted by Killa4luv:


Nearly every suspension he gives out is about 5 games too long. Mellos is too, but he needs it, he needs to learn the lesson, I can't believe he was so stupid!

When you say this is it too long from a basketball perspective (team missing their player) or a individual monetary perspective? Or maybe both?

Both. I mean what happened that warrants a guy like Jeffries missing 4 or 6 games? Thats alot of games. nate and JR missing 10!! They weren't even hurt, they didn't hurt any fans any worse than flying in the stands for a loose ball. Its too much. Mello maliciously punched someone in the face, and he wants to be the face of the league, hes gotta pay for that. He could have hurt someone badly and tried to.

You have to also ask yourself: is Stern consistent with his punishments? I say, yes. He's (correctly) judged that NBA fighting can only hurt the league. There IS no upside. And he's made no bones about the fact that he's strict and tough and will err on the side of overdoing it.

So, why the surprise? Nate Robinson got 10 games for being the chief instigator - the whole play might've just been remembered as a hard foul if Nate hadn't gotten into it with Smith. It's the intent that Stern is trying to curb. Luckily - this time - no fans were hurt, but they easily could've been.

Jeffries's intent was to deck Anthony. Lucky for him (and Anthony), he never got his chance - but it was the intent that cost him. Had he reached Anthony, he would've been serving the same 15 games.

I like the joke I heard about Melo getting 10 games for the punch, and 5 for backpedaling after.

Suspensions for intent are going too far imo. If Jeffries swung and missed, I'd accept that as intent, but to be mad and want to fight and actually do nothing, should not get a suspension.

Why not start suspending for making verbal taunts with an intent to hurt the other guy's feelings. This is like RICO conspiracy laws now. its too far, imo.

You are correct about Nate though, he should get alot, as he set the stage for this to happen. JR and Collns were gonna walk away, and this guy comes and rattles the cage.

[Edited by - killa4luv on 12-20-2006 11:56 AM]
BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
Alba Posts: 41
Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024
12/20/2006  12:03 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

First all you have added a whole boatload of issues that no one was ever discussing in the first place. Practice, guns, accosting referees? What does that have to do with anything?Guns were always disallowed, and there have been all of what 1 or 2 gun issues in the last 10 years, I don't know why you even brought it up. Practice? We talking about practice? :)

Talking to referees? Who really cares? It has nothing to do with anything, it doesn't effect the game. He should have made flopping a point of emphasis and stated that sliding in front of a driving player is not defense. That would have been a much more meaningful change to the game.

If I "added" these things it's simply because I don't really understand what is at issue for you.
Dress code has nothing to do with the game. Dressing professionally for a basketball player means wearing shorts and sneakers, or warmups or other basketball/sports attire. Basketball players are not businessmen, they are men who play a game for a living. I Don't see Bloomberg asking Sanitation workers to wear tuxedos and call it proffesional attire.

The dress code was directly aimed at the black players and the "hip hop" fashion, which makes it about race, and if you can't see that than we really have nothing to talk about.


It's this constant retreat behind "if you don't see it we have nothing to discuss" that leaves me not getting you. Why not just discuss it and make yourself clear? Educate us.

So it's the dress code alone that makes Stern racist and fascist?

Are you aware that isiah implemented a dress code on the knicks before Stern did on the NBA, and isiah's is more rigid than Stern's. Do you view Isiah as a racist/fascist too?
Andrew
Posts: 26601
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #1
USA
12/20/2006  2:45 PM
Killa....Jeffries tried to fight and got held back...repeatedly. That is different than "be mad and want to fight and actually do nothing".
PURE KNICKS LOVE
fishmike
Posts: 53903
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
12/20/2006  3:08 PM
NBA fights are more serious than in any other sport. If you dont realize why watch the video again. Watch the little woman sitting the chair that almost gets crush when JR and Nate go flailing to the ground. You can talk basball beanings all you want, but baseball parks dont have chairs 5 feet from the foul lines, or on the grass behind home. Hockey has glass walls. Football has walls. Basketball has rows of spectators on the same floor the guys play on.

Loose balls and guys flying for them into crowds is one thing. Guys flying into stands in a frenzy of violence is another.

I dont deny media portrayal may have racial overtones, but no reason is more important the above IMO. Everything must be done to enforce non-violence in the NBA. The palace was one thing, what happens if Nate and JR land on that lady and she hurts her neck? She was like 115 lbs. They were 2 feet from her. Imagine it was Curry and Nene.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
12/20/2006  3:19 PM
anyone remember the Philadelphia Flyers (i think it was the Flyers) back in the early 80's going up into the stands w/their hockey sticks in hand trying to get at fans who were throwing beer at them & heckling moments prior? that was the scariest fan-player interaction i'd ever seen (even worse than what happened in Detroit 2 years ago in the NBA)... people were getting beat down by players with their own shoes & hockey sticks.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
bigbeast
Posts: 22333
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 12/21/2005
Member: #1060
12/20/2006  3:28 PM
Posted by TMS:

anyone remember the Philadelphia Flyers (i think it was the Flyers) back in the early 80's going up into the stands w/their hockey sticks in hand trying to get at fans who were throwing beer at them & heckling moments prior? that was the scariest fan-player interaction i'd ever seen (even worse than what happened in Detroit 2 years ago in the NBA)... people were getting beat down by players with their own shoes & hockey sticks.

The crazy thing about that is, I never heard of that situation or saw footage of it.....

"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
12/20/2006  3:44 PM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by TMS:

anyone remember the Philadelphia Flyers (i think it was the Flyers) back in the early 80's going up into the stands w/their hockey sticks in hand trying to get at fans who were throwing beer at them & heckling moments prior? that was the scariest fan-player interaction i'd ever seen (even worse than what happened in Detroit 2 years ago in the NBA)... people were getting beat down by players with their own shoes & hockey sticks.

The crazy thing about that is, I never heard of that situation or saw footage of it.....

it was straight out of a movie dude... like that comedy movie that came out in the late '70s about minor league hockey players called "Slap Shot" w/the 3 Hanson brothers... that sh!t was hilarious!


After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Killa4luv
Posts: 27773
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
12/20/2006  4:15 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Killa4luv:

First all you have added a whole boatload of issues that no one was ever discussing in the first place. Practice, guns, accosting referees? What does that have to do with anything?Guns were always disallowed, and there have been all of what 1 or 2 gun issues in the last 10 years, I don't know why you even brought it up. Practice? We talking about practice? :)

Talking to referees? Who really cares? It has nothing to do with anything, it doesn't effect the game. He should have made flopping a point of emphasis and stated that sliding in front of a driving player is not defense. That would have been a much more meaningful change to the game.

If I "added" these things it's simply because I don't really understand what is at issue for you.
Ok Blue, the thing I pointed out in the thread that I think has racial overtones is the media and league over reaction to fights in the NBA. I believe race is a factor in why these things are blown out of proportion. Race is 'a' factor, not the only factor. To the media, and Stern Hip Hop culture is synonomous with thuggery and the overwhelming majority of these NBA players are a part of that culture. The media is over reacting to an incident that would have been no big deal in most other sports. Why the over reaction? The answer is very long, but Race + hip hop culture are a huge part of it.
Posted by BlueSeats:
Dress code has nothing to do with the game. Dressing professionally for a basketball player means wearing shorts and sneakers, or warmups or other basketball/sports attire. Basketball players are not businessmen, they are men who play a game for a living. I Don't see Bloomberg asking Sanitation workers to wear tuxedos and call it proffesional attire.

The dress code was directly aimed at the black players and the "hip hop" fashion, which makes it about race, and if you can't see that than we really have nothing to talk about.


It's this constant retreat behind "if you don't see it we have nothing to discuss" that leaves me not getting you. Why not just discuss it and make yourself clear? Educate us.
Why don't you address the point I made about the purpose of the dress code instead of talking about a constant retreat? I think the point I made is very straight foward and clear. Can you see it or not?
So it's the dress code alone that makes Stern racist and fascist?

Are you aware that isiah implemented a dress code on the knicks before Stern did on the NBA, and isiah's is more rigid than Stern's. Do you view Isiah as a racist/fascist too?

FYI, I never called Stern a racist. I called him a facist, meaning he consistantly over reacts with his punishments and his decsions. A couple of years back, he penalized referees for covering their numbers as a show of solidarity, he completely cancelled a players contract for physically attacking a coach, he consistantly over does it on the punitive aspect imo.



[Edited by - killa4luv on 12-20-2006 5:03 PM]
Killa4luv
Posts: 27773
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
12/20/2006  5:01 PM
Posted by fishmike:

NBA fights are more serious than in any other sport. If you dont realize why watch the video again. Watch the little woman sitting the chair that almost gets crush when JR and Nate go flailing to the ground. You can talk basball beanings all you want, but baseball parks dont have chairs 5 feet from the foul lines, or on the grass behind home. Hockey has glass walls. Football has walls. Basketball has rows of spectators on the same floor the guys play on.

Loose balls and guys flying for them into crowds is one thing. Guys flying into stands in a frenzy of violence is another. [quote]

I dont deny media portrayal may have racial overtones, but no reason is more important the above IMO. Everything must be done to enforce non-violence in the NBA. The palace was one thing, what happens if Nate and JR land on that lady and she hurts her neck? She was like 115 lbs. They were 2 feet from her. Imagine it was Curry and Nene.

Fans are in danger everynight by loose balls and fouls. Thats why there is a disclaimer on the ticket that basically absolves MSG of all responsibility if they are hurt from one of the players or something like that.

I dont think this is a serious issue or a point of major concern. People get killed at Nascar races, no fan has ever been seriously hurt at a baskteball game, that I've heard of.
BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
Alba Posts: 41
Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024
12/20/2006  5:47 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Ok Blue, the thing I pointed out in the thread that I think has racial overtones is the media and league over reaction to fights in the NBA. I believe race is a factor in why these things are blown out of proportion. Race is 'a' factor, not the only factor. To the media, and Stern Hip Hop culture is synonomous with thuggery and the overwhelming majority of these NBA players are a part of that culture. The media is over reacting to an incident that would have been no big deal in most other sports. Why the over reaction? The answer is very long, but Race + hip hop culture are a huge part of it.


Actually, in the post I responded to you said the dress code was racially motivated.

As I said, I haven't read or watched much media on the brawl and don't care to go fishing. If you were to present a line or passage that was racist I'm sure we'd be in agreement, but I think to consider the fans deteriorating relationship to the NBA as a racial preference is off the mark. Were the fans ever more in love with the NBA than when Magic and Jordan were the faces of the league? Who's more beloved in NY: Bradley and Debusschere or Clyde, Ewing, Reed, and King?
Why don't you address the point I made about the purpose of the dress code instead of talking about a constant retreat? I think the point I made is very straight foward and clear. Can you see it or not?

Not!

I already told you I don't get it, and then you dodged my question on whether Isiah's imposed dress code was also racially motivated. How can I get it if you wont address it?

I don't see why dress is a racial issue. I see many black basketball coaches and TV commentators dressed in suits. Is that because they're uncle toms, or do they just adhere to a common standard that transcends race?

I'm a photographer. If I'm shooting a product in my studio I can wear the jeans and t-shirt that are typical of my generation and race. When I shoot a wedding I gotta wear a suit. Am I supposed to feel disrespected when I'm hired to shoot a wedding?
FYI, I never called Stern a racist. I called him a facist, meaning he consistantly over reacts with his punishments and his decsions. A couple of years back, he penalized referees for covering their numbers as a show of solidarity, he completely cancelled a players contract for physically attacking a coach, he consistantly over does it on the punitive aspect imo.

Okay, so he's got a lot of rules and that makes him a fascist, but if one of them covers dress it means it's racially motivated? Was Isiah's more stringent rules even more racially motivated?
Anji
Posts: 25523
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 4/14/2006
Member: #1122
USA
12/20/2006  6:11 PM
IT's because it the NBA is veiwed as an black league populated by inner city hoodlums by surban midde age whites. Pretty simple.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
fishmike
Posts: 53903
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
12/20/2006  6:22 PM
Posted by Anji:

IT's because it the NBA is veiwed as an black league populated by inner city hoodlums by surban midde age whites. Pretty simple.
go to a game and look around. Why are the arenas sold out to suburban middle age whites?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
Alba Posts: 41
Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024
12/20/2006  6:36 PM
Posted by Anji:

IT's because it the NBA is viewed as an black league populated by inner city hoodlums by suburban midde age whites. Pretty simple.


I don't see it as simple at all.

Lets project a hypothetical 10 years out from now. Hip Hop has become over-saturated and waned. The new cultural phenomenon is called "Hell Hop". It grews out the the white outer-suburbs and is based on Hells Angels fashions. Typical attire long pony tails and beards, leather vests with no shirts, big black boots full of chrome spikes with similar wrist bands, and of course, chains abound. The poster child of the movement is the dude from the Gimme Shelter concert who stabbed a Stones fan and provoked a riot.

Along with such dress the fashion also includes decked out Harley Davidson SABs (Suburban Assault Bikes) with sawed off shot guns in the rear boot (which they use with pride) and loud acid-metal music that is homophobic, misogynistic and not too subtlety anti-minority. Disrespect for authority goes without saying, and gang-bang brawls are not uncommon.

Shocking as it may seem, the NBA player of the near future embraces this "white" fashion/culture en mass, but the fans aren't sure they can relate as the more money the athletes make the more casual their approach to the game, and the more trouble they get in. Practice is treated like a joke by many, coaches who aren't hand picked by the stars are annual casualties, and drug and gun arrests are commonplace

The future black commissioner of the NBA has no interest in regulating society as a whole, but he does require that NBA players at least forgo the leather and spikes when traveling with the team and wear casual business attire or better.

Would that requirement be racially motivated?

[Edited by - BlueSeats on 12-20-2006 6:42 PM]
islesfan
Posts: 9999
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
12/20/2006  9:33 PM
Posted by TMS:

anyone remember the Philadelphia Flyers (i think it was the Flyers) back in the early 80's going up into the stands w/their hockey sticks in hand trying to get at fans who were throwing beer at them & heckling moments prior? that was the scariest fan-player interaction i'd ever seen (even worse than what happened in Detroit 2 years ago in the NBA)... people were getting beat down by players with their own shoes & hockey sticks.

That was the Boston Bruins against the Rangers in the Garden. The idiot Rangers fans grabbed some of the Bruins sticks and the Bruins went into the stands to get them back. Mike Milbury was the one beating a fan with his own shoe.

If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
12/21/2006  9:32 AM
thanks isles... yeah, my memory was a little sketchy on it, but that was just a crazy scene.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
Alba Posts: 41
Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024
12/21/2006  3:21 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Anji:

IT's because it the NBA is viewed as an black league populated by inner city hoodlums by suburban midde age whites. Pretty simple.


I don't see it as simple at all.

Lets project a hypothetical 10 years out from now. Hip Hop has become over-saturated and waned. The new cultural phenomenon is called "Hell Hop". It grews out the the white outer-suburbs and is based on Hells Angels fashions. Typical attire long pony tails and beards, leather vests with no shirts, big black boots full of chrome spikes with similar wrist bands, and of course, chains abound. The poster child of the movement is the dude from the Gimme Shelter concert who stabbed a Stones fan and provoked a riot.

Along with such dress the fashion also includes decked out Harley Davidson SABs (Suburban Assault Bikes) with sawed off shot guns in the rear boot (which they use with pride) and loud acid-metal music that is homophobic, misogynistic and not too subtlety anti-minority. Disrespect for authority goes without saying, and gang-bang brawls are not uncommon.

Shocking as it may seem, the NBA player of the near future embraces this "white" fashion/culture en mass, but the fans aren't sure they can relate as the more money the athletes make the more casual their approach to the game, and the more trouble they get in. Practice is treated like a joke by many, coaches who aren't hand picked by the stars are annual casualties, and drug and gun arrests are commonplace

The future black commissioner of the NBA has no interest in regulating society as a whole, but he does require that NBA players at least forgo the leather and spikes when traveling with the team and wear casual business attire or better.

Would that requirement be racially motivated?


killa, we done here?
VDesai
Posts: 43302
Alba Posts: 44
Joined: 10/28/2003
Member: #477
USA
12/21/2006  3:28 PM
There aren't a ton of fights in football...it's pretty isolated. I do find it interesting that brawls happen all the time in baseball with punches thrown and its not nearly as big a deal. Then again, I don't remember brawls in bball being as big a deal untill the Detroit-Indy brawl with guys going into the crowd.
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
12/21/2006  3:33 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Anji:

IT's because it the NBA is viewed as an black league populated by inner city hoodlums by suburban midde age whites. Pretty simple.


I don't see it as simple at all.

Lets project a hypothetical 10 years out from now. Hip Hop has become over-saturated and waned. The new cultural phenomenon is called "Hell Hop". It grews out the the white outer-suburbs and is based on Hells Angels fashions. Typical attire long pony tails and beards, leather vests with no shirts, big black boots full of chrome spikes with similar wrist bands, and of course, chains abound. The poster child of the movement is the dude from the Gimme Shelter concert who stabbed a Stones fan and provoked a riot.

Along with such dress the fashion also includes decked out Harley Davidson SABs (Suburban Assault Bikes) with sawed off shot guns in the rear boot (which they use with pride) and loud acid-metal music that is homophobic, misogynistic and not too subtlety anti-minority. Disrespect for authority goes without saying, and gang-bang brawls are not uncommon.

Shocking as it may seem, the NBA player of the near future embraces this "white" fashion/culture en mass, but the fans aren't sure they can relate as the more money the athletes make the more casual their approach to the game, and the more trouble they get in. Practice is treated like a joke by many, coaches who aren't hand picked by the stars are annual casualties, and drug and gun arrests are commonplace

The future black commissioner of the NBA has no interest in regulating society as a whole, but he does require that NBA players at least forgo the leather and spikes when traveling with the team and wear casual business attire or better.

Would that requirement be racially motivated?


killa, we done here?

Great post and great point. Although I struggled with this sentence for a while

"It grews out the the white outer-suburbs"

Was that some type of future ebonics.
I just hope that people will like me
Page 3 of 5 ‹ Previous 1  2  3  4  5 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Why does the NBA go so bizzerk over fights? Baseball/Hockey/Football fight ALL THE TIME
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy