Posted by anrst:

no but really... Rich, you're saying this makes Isiah looks good? I don't get it? You can't possibly mean that?

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by Rich:

Posted by anrst:

no but really... Rich, you're saying this makes Isiah looks good? I don't get it? You can't possibly mean that?

To the extent that he wants his team to man up when they are being embarassed, I think he's right. When I was growing up, the foul Collins committed was commonplace.

In Stern's NBA, you have to commit hard fouls more subtly. Collins should have just bumped the guy to the floor with his chest.

the attitude and bravado that isiah wants to instill in his team is manifesting itself in this manner. like blueseats kept saying, why do this down 20+ in the final minute instead of giving up 25+ alleyoops throughout the first 3 quarters?

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by Rich:

Posted by anrst:

no but really... Rich, you're saying this makes Isiah looks good? I don't get it? You can't possibly mean that?

To the extent that he wants his team to man up when they are being embarassed, I think he's right. When I was growing up, the foul Collins committed was commonplace.

In Stern's NBA, you have to commit hard fouls more subtly. Collins should have just bumped the guy to the floor with his chest.

I agree that the foul was not that bad. The fact that Isiah may have premeditated it and actually warned an opposing player is not normal. An important fact we have to look at is if Isiah is going to try to pull this intimidation and if he really is going to follow through with it.

I know it's the past, and we all know about it, but he did once tell his players to break Bruce Bowen's ankle if he kept playing a way Isiah disagreed with in front of everyone. What the NBA is going to look at is this is creating a hostile work enviornment. If this is true about the tape(I haven't seen it), and Isiah is threatening players like that, he is in deep doo-doo.

I understand some of that talk is part of the game, but we are reaching a whole new level-and finding the good sportsmanship line being very blurred by Isiah Thomas.

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by Rich:

Posted by anrst:

no but really... Rich, you're saying this makes Isiah looks good? I don't get it? You can't possibly mean that?

To the extent that he wants his team to man up when they are being embarassed, I think he's right. When I was growing up, the foul Collins committed was commonplace.

In Stern's NBA, you have to commit hard fouls more subtly. Collins should have just bumped the guy to the floor with his chest.

I agree that the foul was not that bad. The fact that Isiah may have premeditated it and actually warned an opposing player is not normal. An important fact we have to look at is if Isiah is going to try to pull this intimidation and if he really is going to follow through with it.

I know it's the past, and we all know about it, but he did once tell his players to break Bruce Bowen's ankle if he kept playing a way Isiah disagreed with in front of everyone. What the NBA is going to look at is this is creating a hostile work enviornment. If this is true about the tape(I haven't seen it), and Isiah is threatening players like that, he is in deep doo-doo.

I understand some of that talk is part of the game, but we are reaching a whole new level-and finding the good sportsmanship line being very blurred by Isiah Thomas.

Posted by oohah:

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by Rich:

Posted by anrst:

no but really... Rich, you're saying this makes Isiah looks good? I don't get it? You can't possibly mean that?

To the extent that he wants his team to man up when they are being embarassed, I think he's right. When I was growing up, the foul Collins committed was commonplace.

In Stern's NBA, you have to commit hard fouls more subtly. Collins should have just bumped the guy to the floor with his chest.

I agree that the foul was not that bad. The fact that Isiah may have premeditated it and actually warned an opposing player is not normal. An important fact we have to look at is if Isiah is going to try to pull this intimidation and if he really is going to follow through with it.

I know it's the past, and we all know about it, but he did once tell his players to break Bruce Bowen's ankle if he kept playing a way Isiah disagreed with in front of everyone. What the NBA is going to look at is this is creating a hostile work enviornment. If this is true about the tape(I haven't seen it), and Isiah is threatening players like that, he is in deep doo-doo.

I understand some of that talk is part of the game, but we are reaching a whole new level-and finding the good sportsmanship line being very blurred by Isiah Thomas.

This is no different from Isiah the player though. My dad always called hima a "turd".

I am fine with somebody stepping under Bruce Bowen for once.

And that JR SMith really had it coming didn't he?

oohah

I have no problem with guys like what Isiah used to be. I have no problems with hard fouls, and I think the Collins hit was border line but not definitavely excessive. I have seen many, many worse hits.

Stepping under Bowen? I have no problem letting him know that you don;t appreciate how he's playing but don't stoop to his level. Hit him hard enough to shake him, don't risk his career by breaking his ankle.

It's my belief that there is a fine line in sports, and sometimes players have to go right up to that line. Maybe even bend the line a little.

My main problem with this isn't the foul but Isiah dumb enough to let it be known it was premeditated(Isiah, plausible deniability is a beautiful thing), but the fact that this was in response to nothing. You don't foul hard for guys running up the score(which I personally believe Denver wasn't doing. They were running down the clock and they did only win by 17.).

Posted by Rich:

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by Rich:

Posted by anrst:

no but really... Rich, you're saying this makes Isiah looks good? I don't get it? You can't possibly mean that?

To the extent that he wants his team to man up when they are being embarassed, I think he's right. When I was growing up, the foul Collins committed was commonplace.

In Stern's NBA, you have to commit hard fouls more subtly. Collins should have just bumped the guy to the floor with his chest.

I agree that the foul was not that bad. The fact that Isiah may have premeditated it and actually warned an opposing player is not normal. An important fact we have to look at is if Isiah is going to try to pull this intimidation and if he really is going to follow through with it.

I know it's the past, and we all know about it, but he did once tell his players to break Bruce Bowen's ankle if he kept playing a way Isiah disagreed with in front of everyone. What the NBA is going to look at is this is creating a hostile work enviornment. If this is true about the tape(I haven't seen it), and Isiah is threatening players like that, he is in deep doo-doo.

I understand some of that talk is part of the game, but we are reaching a whole new level-and finding the good sportsmanship line being very blurred by Isiah Thomas.

Did you use the term hostile work environment on purpose because of Anucha? ;)

I actually think that the David Stern's kinder and gentler NBA leads to a build up of frustration that causes some of the problems we have seen in the last few years.

Part of sports is being tough. Now if you foul a guy a little hard or complain to a ref, you're sanctioned.

I hate it.

LOL...

I agree, I don't like this softer NBA, but 'dem is da' rules now. All we can do is have a coke and a smile and try to enjoy it.

Posted by crzymdups:

Rich, there's a difference between a hard foul and what went on yesterday. And why wait until the game was over to do it? You want to make a statement, how about when the game was relatively close in the second quarter or something? even then it's a dirty, cowardly play, made more so by waiting until the 47th minute to do it.

To me, none of what went on was toughness, it was trying to bully a team that kicked our butts. The fact that the face of our franchise ordered it is pathetic. What was he protesting? that the Nuggets were the 10th team to come into the Garden over the six weeks of the season so far and blow us out?

Posted by Rich:

Posted by crzymdups:

Rich, there's a difference between a hard foul and what went on yesterday. And why wait until the game was over to do it? You want to make a statement, how about when the game was relatively close in the second quarter or something? even then it's a dirty, cowardly play, made more so by waiting until the 47th minute to do it.

To me, none of what went on was toughness, it was trying to bully a team that kicked our butts. The fact that the face of our franchise ordered it is pathetic. What was he protesting? that the Nuggets were the 10th team to come into the Garden over the six weeks of the season so far and blow us out?

I already acknowledged that dj's point about fouling hard earlier was correct.

As I said, I think Stern's stupid rules have neutered the NBA.

OTOH, no matter how you view what the Knicks did, Smith should have just gone to the line and taken his foul shots.

Posted by Solace:

Posted by Rich:

Posted by crzymdups:

Rich, there's a difference between a hard foul and what went on yesterday. And why wait until the game was over to do it? You want to make a statement, how about when the game was relatively close in the second quarter or something? even then it's a dirty, cowardly play, made more so by waiting until the 47th minute to do it.

To me, none of what went on was toughness, it was trying to bully a team that kicked our butts. The fact that the face of our franchise ordered it is pathetic. What was he protesting? that the Nuggets were the 10th team to come into the Garden over the six weeks of the season so far and blow us out?

I already acknowledged that dj's point about fouling hard earlier was correct.

As I said, I think Stern's stupid rules have neutered the NBA.

OTOH, no matter how you view what the Knicks did, Smith should have just gone to the line and taken his foul shots.

There were a lot of missed opportunities to avoid the conflict getting worse. Mishaps on both sides. I agree that players *should've* stopped, but it seems clear that guys wanted to fight. Surely, Nate, Smith and Carmelo wanted to.