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gunsnewing
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12/14/2006  2:22 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Who is really the pessimist?

The guy who wants to find a way to adjust the personnel to better his favorite team. Or the guy who sees every trade as a negative thing and feels his 9-15 team needs no changes? just curious.


That's a great question!
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babyKnicks
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12/14/2006  2:22 PM
you are not a pessimist you are a teacher...most students don't agree with the teacher until they realize he was always right.

you're not an optimist either as you are down on some players incorrectly.

you're just a realist and that's tough to stomach for some people because in reality, the knicks aren't that good.

But we have a bright future and a youthfull core of talented players.

I think everyone can agree on that.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
nyk4ever
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12/14/2006  2:24 PM
Posted by babyKnicks:

you are not a pessimist you are a teacher...most students don't agree with the teacher until they realize he was always right.

you're not an optimist either as you are down on some players incorrectly.

you're just a realist and that's tough to stomach for some people because in reality, the knicks aren't that good.

But we have a bright future and a youthfull core of talented players.

I think everyone can agree on that.

I'll say it once and don't get used too it.

Good post!
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
nyk4ever
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12/14/2006  2:27 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Who is really the pessimist?

The guy who wants to find a way to adjust the personnel to better his favorite team. Or the guy who sees every trade as a negative thing and feels his 9-15 team needs no changes? just curious.

You are always the pessimist Bip, it doesn't matter what your opinion is, you're ALWAYS a pessimist.

All kidding aside, I think this is a good post. I think the "optimist/pessimist" label that gets thrown around here is a bit overdone. I'm in your boat Bip.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
babyKnicks
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12/14/2006  2:32 PM
ok, after the praise, here comes the post that gets blasted...

We beat the atlanta hawks minus their two wing players (one a 30 ppg) and everyone says that that's an indication that we aren't there yet.

But we are 9-15 missing one starter the entire time and two other "starters" for extended periods of time.

I say with our full compliment of players, we win a net of 3 more games (some wins becoming losses and more losses become wins)

but injuries are a part of the equation and we survived it less than 2 games out of first in the atlantic and with a crappy home record.

it can turn around and it should.

blast away.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
Bippity10
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12/14/2006  2:41 PM
Posted by babyKnicks:


you're not an optimist either as you are down on some players incorrectly.

According to who????? Who on the site determines what is the proper opinion to have on players?

And what players am I down on. Since I normally try to leave my personal opinions on players seperate(except for Howard Eisley) from what I feel will improve my favorite team(team always comes first) I'm pretty sure you would be way wrong about which players I'm down on. I criticize actions and not players, and some of the guys I criticize most are the guys I love the most. It works the same way with the team I coach by the way. I just think people on this site are way to sensitive to any type of criticism whatsover. Not saying you are, but there is a contingent that really needs to take a deep breath, perform Yoga while reading the posts 2 or 3 times before they respond.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 12-14-2006 2:46 PM]
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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12/14/2006  2:45 PM
Posted by babyKnicks:

ok, after the praise, here comes the post that gets blasted...

We beat the atlanta hawks minus their two wing players (one a 30 ppg) and everyone says that that's an indication that we aren't there yet.

But we are 9-15 missing one starter the entire time and two other "starters" for extended periods of time.

I say with our full compliment of players, we win a net of 3 more games (some wins becoming losses and more losses become wins)

but injuries are a part of the equation and we survived it less than 2 games out of first in the atlantic and with a crappy home record.

it can turn around and it should.

blast away.

No you shouldn't get blasted for that. A full roster definitely makes us a better team and puts us into the .500 range capable of being in or near the playoffs. And I think that is what many of us are using as our baseline for the changes that need to be made. I still picture this team as a 35-40 win team despite our current record. So my next thought is how do we get into the 45-50 range and so on. I think too many people are using 23 wins as our baseline and then settling for any type of improvement. I think management is doing this as well and this is a scary proposition. This is exactly what we were doing in 2000/01. Using a low standard and trying to build a championship squad on that low standard. When I pointed this out I was nearly castrated by the "lovers" on the MSG board. I'm jsut praying we don't fall into that trap again. We have settled for far too long. As an organization we have lowered the fan standard to save jobs and it is killing us.
I just hope that people will like me
misterearl
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12/14/2006  2:47 PM
(babyKnicks - every NBA team deals with injuries, no one reveives a bye)

Sugar Ray - unlike islesfan who simply hates everything orange and blue because the management does not fit his personal agenda ...


I don't allow my personal politics to get in the way of cheering when the Knicks win or critiquing players or management when they mess up

I wish Maciej Lampe, Slavko Vranes, Keith Van Horn, Maceo Baston, Qyntel Woods and Milos Vujanic woulda worked out but it wasn't meant to be

Quick - Name one NBA GM with a spotless record of player transactions



Sadly, their frustration over the Knicks is a permanent fixation until the leadership conforms to their views and the franchise matches their myopic world-view

it's only basketball

heck, I rooted for Al Bianchi and John McLeod

how positive is that?

the basketball season is a marathon and it's only December
once a knick always a knick
Bippity10
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12/14/2006  2:57 PM
Posted by misterearl:

(babyKnicks - every NBA team deals with injuries, no one reveives a bye)

Sugar Ray - unlike islesfan who simply hates everything orange and blue because the management does not fit his personal agenda ...


I don't allow my personal politics to get in the way of cheering when the Knicks win or critiquing players or management when they mess up

I wish Maciej Lampe, Slavko Vranes, Keith Van Horn, Maceo Baston, Qyntel Woods and Milos Vujanic woulda worked out but it wasn't meant to be

Quick - Name one NBA GM with a spotless record of player transactions



Sadly, their frustration over the Knicks is a permanent fixation until the leadership conforms to their views and the franchise matches their myopic world-view

it's only basketball

heck, I rooted for Al Bianchi and John McLeod

how positive is that?

the basketball season is a marathon and it's only December

I have never come across one person on this site that thinks every GM has a spotless record. MisterEarl: Why does everyone have to think Isiah is the right man for the job? Because you like him? why isn't it okay for someone to feel we can do better at GM spot? Should we clear it with you before we have any opinion?

I don't think Isiah is the devil. I personally think he is the best man for the current coaching job. But

1.) I do not want my GM coaching the team. I want someone who can focus on each individual job
2.) I do not want my GM embarrassing my franchise.
3.) I do not want my GM acquiring assets and then cutting them.

This is NY. Let's get some proven winners and builders in here and get it done. 7 years since Patrick has been long enough. This is not an I hate Isiah post. I do not hate Isiah so let it go. But it is a criticism of what he has done to date. Criticism does not mean hate, so get over it MisterEarl. I criticize myself constantly, and you can tell by my posts I do not hate myself. But guess what, it is the main reason why my income goes up year after year and my teams get better year after year. Isiah can improve. As long as he's hear, I pray everyday he improves. I think he had a solid offseason and have no problem giving him credit for the youth he's brought here. But his questionable moves have been so horrendous that I should not need your approval to criticize him for it.
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misterearl
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12/14/2006  2:58 PM
Proven winners and builders like who bip?
once a knick always a knick
islesfan
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12/14/2006  3:03 PM
Basketball IQ Test

Quick - Name one NBA GM who has been as bad as Isiah has been with the Knicks and kept his job?

If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
misterearl
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12/14/2006  3:08 PM
Don't Mess With The Answer Man

Q. Islesfan - Quick - Name one NBA GM who has been as bad as Isiah has been with the Knicks and kept his job?

A. Pete Babcoc(q), Atlanta Hawks, 10 years

Next question please

[Edited by - misterearl on 12-14-2006 3:09 PM]
once a knick always a knick
islesfan
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12/14/2006  3:09 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Don't Mess With The Answer Man

Q. Islesfan - Quick - Name one NBA GM who has been as bad as Isiah has been with the Knicks and kept his job?

A. Pete Babcoc(q), Atlanta Hawks, 10 years

Next question please

[Edited by - misterearl on 12-14-2006 3:09 PM]

So you admit that Isiah has been as bad as Babcock.

Next Question:

Do you think Babcock deserved to keep his job?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
holfresh
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12/14/2006  3:15 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Basketball IQ Test

Quick - Name one NBA GM who has been as bad as Isiah has been with the Knicks and kept his job?

How bad a job has he done when Curry is on his way to all star status....Q and Nate was a coup...DLee for Mohammed was brilliant...his draft has been arguably the best in the NBA the last three years...How bad has he been??? taking into consideration our previous roster and the Knicks was 93 mil in salary cap....How bad a job has he done really?
islesfan
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12/14/2006  3:24 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by islesfan:

Basketball IQ Test

Quick - Name one NBA GM who has been as bad as Isiah has been with the Knicks and kept his job?

How bad a job has he done when Curry is on his way to all star status....Q and Nate was a coup...DLee for Mohammed was brilliant...his draft has been arguably the best in the NBA the last three years...How bad has he been??? taking into consideration our previous roster and the Knicks was 93 mil in salary cap....How bad a job has he done really?

You're right. Things are going amazingly well since Isiah got here. Things couldn't be better at 95-148.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bippity10
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12/14/2006  3:26 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Proven winners and builders like who bip?

That's a great question. We can start on the court. Instead of targeting guys on sub .500 teams, get some guys that have played integral parts on winning teams(even if they aren't great players) so they can teach the youth.

For coach-We are finally admitting we are rebuilding after 7 years of pretending that we weren't. So get a guy that has proven that he can develop youth. Is Isiah that guy? Possibly. I have no problem with giving him a shot. He's done it in the past and can get it done now. But in the meantime the way he has undermined his past coach's I don't want him whining about the treatment he recieves from the fans now. He has made his own bed, now suck it up

For GM-That GM may not be available today. In 7 years time it was, but today it may not be. That's why as an organization you decide the standard of what you want. You develop a philosophy of waht that GM looks like. That way when it becomes available you can hop on it. Or you go after someone that has a job today and get them. Our standard should be a proven builder whether that person is avialable today or not. Our problem is we don't really have an organizational philosophy. If you look at teams like Utah and SA you can almost guess who they will trade for and who they will try to draft. You have absolutely no clue with us. And until we do that we will be stuck targeting guys with no track record and saying we don't have a winner in place because none is avialable.
I just hope that people will like me
misterearl
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12/14/2006  7:24 PM
Bip - it starts with enlightened and motivated ownership

For me, the perfect owner of the Knicks would be Bill Bradley. Intelligent beyond imagination (Rhodes Scholar) and bleeds orange and blue.

can't he get financing from Spike Lee and Woody Allen?

My dream General Manager?

Ernie Grunfeld. Damn you Van Gundy.

My dream Head Coach?

Mark Jackson. He reminds me of the boss of a crew.

But it will never happen

once a knick always a knick
TheGame
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12/14/2006  7:48 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Basketball IQ Test

Quick - Name one NBA GM who has been as bad as Isiah has been with the Knicks and kept his job?


Babcock and Mchale come to mind as two guys that clearly have done a worse job than IT and there are a few other GMs in the league that I would say have not done much better.
Trust the Process
misterearl
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12/14/2006  7:52 PM
Billy King for the Sixers has been there how long?

Elgin Baylor has been GM of the Clippers forever. They have a checkered past but a bright future... but, my oh my, have they given away enough talent?

The Bulls have been in rebuild mode for seven years and haven't won a thing

I'm jus' sayin'
once a knick always a knick
tkf
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12/14/2006  8:23 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Mardy Collins is a fringe NBA player. He'll be in Europe at the end of his 3 yr guarantee.


If Brian scalabrine can play and get a nice NBA contract, then mardy collins is far from being just a Fringe NBA player.
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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