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Isiah Tanking the Season on Purpose?
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Solace
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Maybe he wants to get fired. I mean he got two technicals in a critical moment of a game. His rotations are weird. He won't give major minutes into "future all-stars" (as quoted on this board) like David Lee, unless he has to, due to injuries. He doesn't call enough plays from the bench, to keep his immature players heads in the game. He plays overpaid players, despite that they may not be the best options. He never says anything of substance to the media, and never admits fault. He complains to the media about his players not trying hard enough. He has a terrible record, even though he was supposed to be the "perfect coach" for this team. Maybe he's doing it just for the money? Is he tanking the season on purpose?
Yes (Worst coach ever; maybe even worse than Larry Brown)
No (I love Isiah, and he'll turn it around)
Undecided (I have no opinion, because I'm now a Lakers fan)
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holfresh
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12/8/2006  3:30 PM

Guys are you really trying to lay last year on Isiah's shoulders...Are you really trying to lay starting guys in their home towns on Isiah...Benching Frye when he began to show promise...

I'm not going to get into the reasons the Knicks are where they are right now...I think oohah has done a masterful job of that with regards to H2O going down and other things that has brought this franchise beyond Isiah's control...The dream of teaming him with Marbs etc...

Fact remains Isiah met a 93 mil salary hell hole here and there isn't much to be done with that...Maybe nyk4ever you can show me the Franchise player Isiah didn't select that you wanted here...

Also maybe you and Bip can tell me how long does it take to build a Championship team...
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misterearl
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12/8/2006  3:33 PM
"Man, we're talking about "tanking..."

SlimPack - nope, Solace is claiming Isiah is "tanking" the season on purpose.

In the immortal words of Allan Iverson...

"how silly is that?"

tanking?

Man, we're talking about "tanking..."

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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12/8/2006  3:34 PM
Please note that Solace has YET to cite any evidence of "tanking

I wonder why
once a knick always a knick
mythfaze
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12/8/2006  3:35 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Guys are you really trying to lay last year on Isiah's shoulders...Are you really trying to lay starting guys in their home towns on Isiah...Benching Frye when he began to show promise...

I'm not going to get into the reasons the Knicks are where they are right now...I think oohah has done a masterful job of that with regards to H2O going down and other things that has brought this franchise beyond Isiah's control...The dream of teaming him with Marbs etc...

Fact remains Isiah met a 93 mil salary hell hole here and there isn't much to be done with that...Maybe nyk4ever you can show me the Franchise player Isiah didn't select that you wanted here...

Also maybe you and Bip can tell me how long does it take to build a Championship team...


IT has to take responsibility for everything that has happened under his tenure. He's the GM. It's his team. He assembled the players and hired the coaches.
holfresh
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12/8/2006  3:44 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Glory overnight???

This is what I've seen.

1.) A 23 win season in which the matchup between coach and players was so bad that we became a nightly punchline.

2.) Led one coach out with security guards

3.) Two hall of fame coaches left on a horrible note

4.) Most of the players he has brought in are gone in under 2 years, no matter how he brings them here

5.) No tv appearances for a NY based franchise

6.) Making trades for assets that he then pulls a 180 on and cuts a year or two later.

7.) Free-agent signings that sign long-term contracts and don't play

8.) Did I mention we are a laughingstock.

9.) Gone backwards since his arrival

I could go on and on but my brain is not at full capacity right now. He has done some good things. I'm not a hater. I respect the young talent that he's brought in. But I would much rather have a different GM here to build around this young talent. With the trade deadline fast approaching and the heat bearing down on Isiah what are the guarantees that he won't make another blockbuster deal for "assets" that will be gone in a year. Again, I like the young guys but that does not dismiss what he haas done to the image of this franchise. You cannot win this way. I'll give him a shot as a coach but as GM, how this guy still has a job is beyond me.

I honestly think the peopole that cut him slack do so because they pretend last year didn't exist or it was all LB's fault. While the rest of the fans are still booing because of what we saw last year has continued to this day.

Image of the Franchise?...Laughingstock of the league??...This is why Dolan feels he can't rebuild in this town...Knowledgeable fans like yourself won't stand to lose a few years to grow with the kids...You guys laugh about the Knicks' starphucking ways but your postings all pine for mediocrity...

Kill Isiah all you want, they Knicks has not been in a better position talent wise, youth, and prospect for their futures in the last 5 years of this franchise...It just seems at time you all want Isiah out before success is realized...





[Edited by - holfresh on 12-08-2006 3:46 PM]
nyk4ever
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12/8/2006  3:46 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Fact remains Isiah met a 93 mil salary hell hole here and there isn't much to be done with that...Maybe nyk4ever you can show me the Franchise player Isiah didn't select that you wanted here...

Also maybe you and Bip can tell me how long does it take to build a Championship team...


The Fact also remains that Isiah turned a 93 million salary hell into a 139 million salary hell hole as of today. So Isiah added 46 million more dollars in salary and how did he thank everyone? With a 94-146 record with this franchise.

Sure I'll give you a couple of franchise players that Isiah could have selected with the picks the Knicks had.

-Andrew Bynum - this is the easiest one. Isiah chose the safer of the top options. Instead of choosing the guy who has more upside but would take longer to mold, he went with the safe option in Channing Frye, a PF that can only shoot the ball.

-My point about the drafts is, what actually happens and what Isiah's plans are always so far from each other. Isiah builds teams, no matter how glitched they are, and believes they will make the playoffs. If he had once just looked at these Knick teams from a true standpoint, he would have seen the best thing for this franchise was in the lottery with a top3 pick(last year was close but too bad Tyrus Thomas ended up with Chicago and not us) instead of fighting for the 8th seed in the playoffs with no hopes of getting past the first round and then having the season turn out that you are in the lottery anyway. This has happened two years in a row. Last year could have netted us Tyrus Thomas or Adam Morrison and the year before could have netted us Chris Paul. Paul and Morrison as well as Bynum who I mentioned before are going to be franchise players in this league.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
fishmike
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12/8/2006  3:47 PM
gee holfresh, how long does it take to build a .500 team? Why dont we start there?

Are you really going to tell me Isiah has done a good job? So instead of waiting for Layden's mess to come off the books he made is own mess only 10x worse. Great. Oh.. excuse me, we have Eddie 20 points a game Curry. What we now have is a veteran core of cast off players with LONGER deals than the players Layden left Isiah with.

But we are just waiting for them to all gell... excuse me while I tune out the boos, the double digit losses, the winning % in .300s, the 2 and whatever home record, the booing for LACK OF EFFORT, our franchise center being fat, our lottery pick going to Chicago, our team in cap hell for 3 more years, the 5 coaches in 3 years I have seen and the commitment to building around players who have done nothing to lose in the NBA.

Ok good... tune out all that and watch... we just need to gell, and he have great young players. Sure thing.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
holfresh
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12/8/2006  3:51 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:


Fact remains Isiah met a 93 mil salary hell hole here and there isn't much to be done with that...Maybe nyk4ever you can show me the Franchise player Isiah didn't select that you wanted here...

Also maybe you and Bip can tell me how long does it take to build a Championship team...


The Fact also remains that Isiah turned a 93 million salary hell into a 139 million salary hell hole as of today. So Isiah added 46 million more dollars in salary and how did he thank everyone? With a 94-146 record with this franchise.

Sure I'll give you a couple of franchise players that Isiah could have selected with the picks the Knicks had.

-Andrew Bynum - this is the easiest one. Isiah chose the safer of the top options. Instead of choosing the guy who has more upside but would take longer to mold, he went with the safe option in Channing Frye, a PF that can only shoot the ball.

-My point about the drafts is, what actually happens and what Isiah's plans are always so far from each other. Isiah builds teams, no matter how glitched they are, and believes they will make the playoffs. If he had once just looked at these Knick teams from a true standpoint, he would have seen the best thing for this franchise was in the lottery with a top3 pick(last year was close but too bad Tyrus Thomas ended up with Chicago and not us) instead of fighting for the 8th seed in the playoffs with no hopes of getting past the first round and then having the season turn out that you are in the lottery anyway. This has happened two years in a row. Last year could have netted us Tyrus Thomas or Adam Morrison and the year before could have netted us Chris Paul. Paul and Morrison as well as Bynum who I mentioned before are going to be franchise players in this league.

This is why I talk about being a realist...WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT DOLAN NOT ALLOWING THE TEAM TO PLAY INTO THE LOTTERY...WHY IS THIS SUCH A MENTAL BLOCK HERE...
mythfaze
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12/8/2006  3:51 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Bippity10:

Glory overnight???

This is what I've seen.

1.) A 23 win season in which the matchup between coach and players was so bad that we became a nightly punchline.

2.) Led one coach out with security guards

3.) Two hall of fame coaches left on a horrible note

4.) Most of the players he has brought in are gone in under 2 years, no matter how he brings them here

5.) No tv appearances for a NY based franchise

6.) Making trades for assets that he then pulls a 180 on and cuts a year or two later.

7.) Free-agent signings that sign long-term contracts and don't play

8.) Did I mention we are a laughingstock.

9.) Gone backwards since his arrival

I could go on and on but my brain is not at full capacity right now. He has done some good things. I'm not a hater. I respect the young talent that he's brought in. But I would much rather have a different GM here to build around this young talent. With the trade deadline fast approaching and the heat bearing down on Isiah what are the guarantees that he won't make another blockbuster deal for "assets" that will be gone in a year. Again, I like the young guys but that does not dismiss what he haas done to the image of this franchise. You cannot win this way. I'll give him a shot as a coach but as GM, how this guy still has a job is beyond me.

I honestly think the peopole that cut him slack do so because they pretend last year didn't exist or it was all LB's fault. While the rest of the fans are still booing because of what we saw last year has continued to this day.

Image of the Franchise?...Laughingstock of the league??...This is why Dolan feels he can't rebuild in this town...Knowledgeable fans like yourself won't stand to lose a few years to grow with the kids...You guys laugh about the Knicks' starphucking ways but your postings all pine for mediocrity...

Kill Isiah all you want, they Knicks has not been in a better position talent wise, youth, and prospect for their futures in the last 5 years of this franchise...It just seems at time you all want Isiah out before success is realized...





[Edited by - holfresh on 12-08-2006 3:46 PM]

This "can't rebuild in New York" stuff is crap. We're not the laughingstock because IT came in, decided to rebuild, and went about doing so, and there was some losing in the process. We're the laughingstock for about 100 other reasons.
nyk4ever
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12/8/2006  3:54 PM
Posted by holfresh:



This is why I talk about being a realist...WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT DOLAN NOT ALLOWING THE TEAM TO PLAY INTO THE LOTTERY...WHY IS THIS SUCH A MENTAL BLOCK HERE...


And this is why I talk about being a realist. THE TEAM WAS PLAYING IN THE LOTTERY ANYWAY WHETHER DOLAN ALLOWED IT OR NOT! WHY CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT.


[Edited by - nyk4ever on 12-08-2006 3:54 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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12/8/2006  3:55 PM
Posted by fishmike:

gee holfresh, how long does it take to build a .500 team? Why dont we start there?

Are you really going to tell me Isiah has done a good job? So instead of waiting for Layden's mess to come off the books he made is own mess only 10x worse. Great. Oh.. excuse me, we have Eddie 20 points a game Curry. What we now have is a veteran core of cast off players with LONGER deals than the players Layden left Isiah with.

But we are just waiting for them to all gell... excuse me while I tune out the boos, the double digit losses, the winning % in .300s, the 2 and whatever home record, the booing for LACK OF EFFORT, our franchise center being fat, our lottery pick going to Chicago, our team in cap hell for 3 more years, the 5 coaches in 3 years I have seen and the commitment to building around players who have done nothing to lose in the NBA.

Ok good... tune out all that and watch... we just need to gell, and he have great young players. Sure thing.

You guys always talking about all these Hall of Fame coaches Ishiah tossed away....How come they can't get any jobs elsewhere else...
BlueSeats
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12/8/2006  3:59 PM
Posted by holfresh:
I'm not going to get into the reasons the Knicks are where they are right now...I think oohah has done a masterful job of that with regards to H2O going down and other things that has brought this franchise beyond Isiah's control...The dream of teaming him with Marbs etc...

If that was a recent post I'd like to be directed to it.

From the little of it that you mention, like the idea of building around a 32 year old with cartilage problems coming off the speculative micro-fracture surgery that has done little for the likes of Webber and Penny, it doesn't sound like a very promising defense from the get-go.



[Edited by - blueseats on 12-08-2006 4:02 PM]
holfresh
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12/8/2006  3:59 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:



This is why I talk about being a realist...WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT DOLAN NOT ALLOWING THE TEAM TO PLAY INTO THE LOTTERY...WHY IS THIS SUCH A MENTAL BLOCK HERE...


And this is why I talk about being a realist. THE TEAM WAS PLAYING IN THE LOTTERY ANYWAY WHETHER DOLAN ALLOWED IT OR NOT! WHY CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT.


[Edited by - nyk4ever on 12-08-2006 3:54 PM]

Bro there is a difference between picking 7 and 8 or 1 and 2....Huge difference...But seriously I have to ask this question...Do you understand that Dolan wants to be at least the 8th seed every year???
nyk4ever
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12/8/2006  4:01 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Bro there is a difference between picking 7 and 8 or 1 and 2....Huge difference...But seriously I have to ask this question...Do you understand that Dolan wants to be at least the 8th seed every year???


I understand Dolan wants that but he's not getting it. This is what you aren't understanding. He wasn't getting the 8th seed, he's not even coming close to getting it and the team is ending up in the lottery anyway. A few more losses wouldn't hurt and believe Dolan knows that.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Rich
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12/8/2006  4:02 PM
d) Unlike Larry he isn't his wife's puppet.
holfresh
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12/8/2006  4:02 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by holfresh:
I'm not going to get into the reasons the Knicks are where they are right now...I think oohah has done a masterful job of that with regards to H2O going down and other things that has brought this franchise beyond Isiah's control...The dream of teaming him with Marbs etc...

If that was a recent post I'd like to be directed to it.

From the little but that you mention, like the idea of building around a 32 year old with cartilage problems coming off the speculative micro-fracture surgery that has done little for the likes of Webber and Penny, doesn't sound very promising from the get-go.

You are telling me you haven't read oohah many post about salary cap...H2o knees ..etc???
nyk4ever
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12/8/2006  4:03 PM
Also Holfresh, if all Dolan wants is the 8th seed in the playoffs and Isiah hasn't even been able to do that, then thats pretty damn sad. Such high expectations.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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12/8/2006  4:04 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Also Holfresh, if all Dolan wants is the 8th seed in the playoffs and Isiah hasn't even been able to do that, then thats pretty damn sad. Such high expectations.

Do you have a job?
Bippity10
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12/8/2006  4:06 PM
Holfresh I think we feel the same way about things and love our team the same, you just have a higher tolerance for failure than I do. You can take 10 years to rebuild but show me a coherent plan. Don't trade draft picks for assets and then cut those assets for nothing and tell me you are rebuilding. If you are rebuilding lottery protect your picks because they are your most important asset in a rebuild. Don't overpay for career losers. Bring in a leader to teach your young guys. Target the most important positions on the court with young players that can grow together instead of getting role players first(PG and C) Draft and trade for plaeyrs that compliment your building block, not compete with it. Don't turn over your roster 3 times in 3 years. No matter how much you hate your coaches or how bad a job they did, walk them out with class and dignity.

What's our culture? What's our identity? Our only hope at this point(since our lottery picks are gone) are to pray Curry develops into a superstar. OR to trade some of the young guys that you love for someone else, because they are the only ones we can trade. With his job on the line, don't be surprised.
I just hope that people will like me
nyk4ever
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12/8/2006  4:07 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:

Also Holfresh, if all Dolan wants is the 8th seed in the playoffs and Isiah hasn't even been able to do that, then thats pretty damn sad. Such high expectations.

Do you have a job?


Arguing with you.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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