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Just when I support Isiah.......
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MS
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12/6/2006  11:43 AM
perfect so we can keep climbing out of a whole all season long
AUTOADVERT
TMS
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12/6/2006  11:44 AM
Isiah's becoming more & more like LB everyday... D Lee just coming off a 20 & 10 performance as a starter & contributing to a much needed W at home, & yet Isiah wants him to go back to the bench because he feels he does the things that work well w/the 2nd unit.

at least he didn't wait for a 6 game winning streak before making the decision.

[Edited by - TMS on 12-06-2006 11:45 AM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
King1
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12/6/2006  11:45 AM
If we were a stronger team with Frye starting then why were we 5-10 and the 2nd team bailed them out most of the time? Everyone says Lee cant shoot and he cant score. How is the guy averaging 10 points a game? Hasnt the offense gotten better since Lee has been in it? Lee deserves to start over Frye that is all I am saying.
Elite
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12/6/2006  11:46 AM
King im with you. And Lee can shoot - everytime he is left open he knocks down the J and his FT% is 80+ Give me a break. Lee starts
nixluva
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12/6/2006  12:04 PM
You guys aren't getting the POINT. You don't want to play Lee and Jared for long stretches at the same time with Curry. I don't care that Lee hit some jumpers. If you think teams won't just give him those and keep Curry on lock down you're crazy. Lee won't keep hitting those at a high enough percentage and we lose the fouls that Curry draws. It's a purely logical decision. You can't give teams two players they can leave in order to double down on Curry. Balkman get's left open a lot for the same reason. Isiah is thinking clearly on this. He's looking at the film and can see how teams change their D, depending on the lineup he has out there. In addition Lee will help bring back the bench, which has done nothing since he left it.
izybx
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12/6/2006  12:04 PM
I think that Lee should start simoly because if Frye comes off the bench for the 4/5 then we would never have to play JJ or Cato...but dont worry fellas, you dont have to doubt for a second that Lee will get as many minutes as he has been getting all season and will be on the floor at critical points during games. For Isiah, the old mantra "it doesnt matter who starts its who finishes" actually counts.

And what someone said earlier about the second unit losing its pop is true, if we can keep the starting lineup producing at an acceptable rate and the second unit is doing its thing than we might actually have something going.

Curry/Frye/JJ/Q/Marbury
Lee/Balkman/Fran/Crawford

with Nate picking up 10-15 minutes a game looks pretty good to me.
Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
King1
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12/6/2006  12:12 PM
Nixluva I guess your right since Frye in the first 15 games was knocking down open jumpers, and Curry was flourishing we should go back to the lineup that had us behind 10 after each first quarter. Why not put Jeffires on the bench? JJ will never put up the number Lee does and he has been in the league for 4 years. JJ is the guy I want in the game at the end with that 55% FT shooting percentage
Silverfuel
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12/6/2006  12:14 PM
Posted by Elite:

I have no problem with JJ starting... my problem is with Frye starting.

you could argue Lee is the best player on this team - seriously. Its obserd
agreed!! Frye started off poor early on and Lee is doing great next to Eddy. Also, Eddy has being doing good and we should not mess with his rhythm. I really don't understand this. I wonder what Isiah is thinking.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
franco12
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12/6/2006  12:22 PM
Posted by Elite:

Thomas, too, got testy when he explained his decision to ultimately bench Lee, who's averaging 10.6 points and 8.9 rebounds.

With Lee to the bench, he will again become a leading candidate for Sixth Man of the Year - something tangible he can show owner James Dolan. Problem is, the Knicks' rebounding could suffer. Thomas disputes that.

"Jeffries can rebound, Frye can rebound, Curry is rebounding, our guards are rebounding, Renaldo Balkman rebounds," Thomas said.

"We have a pretty good rebounding team. I don't think that's going to change. We'll continue to be a good rebounding team. I'm not interested in one guy leading the league in rebounds. I'm interested in team rebounding."

Frye is actually a poor rebounder for his size and Jeffries is too thin to be a true banger. But why let the facts get in the way?

The fact is we are 8th in the league in rebounding differential for the season.
joec32033
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12/6/2006  12:44 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by Elite:

I have no problem with JJ starting... my problem is with Frye starting.

you could argue Lee is the best player on this team - seriously. Its obserd
agreed!! Frye started off poor early on and Lee is doing great next to Eddy. Also, Eddy has being doing good and we should not mess with his rhythm. I really don't understand this. I wonder what Isiah is thinking.


Welcome to the dark side....we have great benefits AND dental!
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MS
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12/6/2006  1:09 PM
I think Isiah just wants to selfishly use lee as the 6th man so when he wins the award he will say listen, Eddy is developing into a monster and Lee who we got with the 30th pick is the best 6th man in the league.....

He will obviously get praise for that, which is why he is making the move not for the good of the team
GodSaveTheKnicks
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12/6/2006  1:25 PM
Ultimately what will save Zeke's arse is winning games. If you think he's more concerned about his ego/image, etc...you may be right but...

Either his priorities look something like this:

1. Win games
2. Save my a$s by making myself look good

or this:

1. Save my a$s by making myself look good
2. Win games

He gets to see these guys everyday in practice and during games. Assuming that Lee> Jeffries, there is no way Zeke should have any reason to give Jeffries more minutes than Lee if Lee gives the team a better shot at winning games.

Unless he's too dumb to see that Lee is clearly better than Jeffries in contributing towards Ws. Which might be the case.

I'm going to try to keep an open mind till I see a few games with whatever lineup Zeke throws out there once Jeffries comes back.


Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
King1
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12/6/2006  1:29 PM
I can live with that statement but it sounds like Frye will be starting to. Please tell me what he has done to get his job back
djsunyc
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12/6/2006  1:29 PM
Posted by GodSaveTheKnicks:

Ultimately what will save Zeke's arse is winning games. If you think he's more concerned about his ego/image, etc...you may be right but...

Either his priorities look something like this:

1. Win games
2. Save my a$s by making myself look good

or this:

1. Save my a$s by making myself look good
2. Win games

He gets to see these guys everyday in practice and during games. Assuming that Lee> Jeffries, there is no way Zeke should have any reason to give Jeffries more minutes than Lee if Lee gives the team a better shot at winning games.

Unless he's too dumb to see that Lee is clearly better than Jeffries in contributing towards Ws. Which might be the case.

I'm going to try to keep an open mind till I see a few games with whatever lineup Zeke throws out there once Jeffries comes back.

he just gave jeffries $30 mil.
dlee is the 30th pick.
joec32033
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12/6/2006  1:36 PM
Posted by King1:

I can live with that statement but it sounds like Frye will be starting to. Please tell me what he has done to get his job back

This reminds me of the movie, "Monty Python's The Life of Brian" where Brian wants to join the Jewish Liberation Front,and they ask him to prove it. The exchange sort of goes like this:

JLF:Why should we believe you really hate the Romans?

Brian: Because I hate the Romans.

JLF: Prove it.

Brian: Well, I REALLY hate the Romans.

JLF: Good enough for us, you're in.

I think the Isiah exchange went something like that:

Isiah: Channing why should I believe you are ready to start?

Frye: Well, because I am ready to start.

Isiah: I'm not sure I believe you.

Frye: Well, I'm REALLY ready to start.

Isiah: Ok, good enough for me.
::Isiah skips happily away;;


Post script: I am sorry for any of the butchering that took place on that scene, but that is the gist of it.
~You can't run from who you are.~
Elite
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12/6/2006  1:47 PM
Even if Lee doesent start he needs to play more minutes than he is now... Lee needs to play 35+ Curry needs to play 35 as well.. so Frye get in where you fit in buddy.
TheGame
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12/6/2006  1:50 PM
In IT's mind, he is saying to himself, Lee is a big part of the second unit and the second unit has been dominating other teams' second units. Why start Lee and risk screwing up my second unit (which has lost its pop since Lee has been starting), when I can start JJ and sit Francis and try to fix my first unit. If it works, then we have a dominating 1st unit and a dominating 2nd unit, if it does not work, then we reshuffle the lineup. IT brought JJ here to be a defensive presence and although he might not be a lockdown defender, he is still probably the best individual defender that we have. You put him and Q in the starting lineup and the first unit might become a more solid defensive unit. With Curry doing his thing, Q shooting 3s, Marbury driving, and Frye playing pick and pop, you have a solid offensive team also. Why is this strategy so outrageous? Lee will still get his minutes.
Trust the Process
nyk4ever
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12/6/2006  1:51 PM
Posted by nixluva:

You guys aren't getting the POINT. You don't want to play Lee and Jared for long stretches at the same time with Curry. I don't care that Lee hit some jumpers. If you think teams won't just give him those and keep Curry on lock down you're crazy. Lee won't keep hitting those at a high enough percentage and we lose the fouls that Curry draws. It's a purely logical decision. You can't give teams two players they can leave in order to double down on Curry. Balkman get's left open a lot for the same reason. Isiah is thinking clearly on this. He's looking at the film and can see how teams change their D, depending on the lineup he has out there. In addition Lee will help bring back the bench, which has done nothing since he left it.

Who is saying that Jeffries has to start? I think most are just saying they want Lee to remain in the starting lineup and have both Frye AND Jeffries come off the bench. I know I do.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
joec32033
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12/6/2006  1:54 PM
Posted by TheGame:

In IT's mind, he is saying to himself, Lee is a big part of the second unit and the second unit has been dominating other teams' second units. Why start Lee and risk screwing up my second unit (which has lost its pop since Lee has been starting), when I can start JJ and sit Francis and try to fix my first unit. If it works, then we have a dominating 1st unit and a dominating 2nd unit, if it does not work, then we reshuffle the lineup. IT brought JJ here to be a defensive presence and although he might not be a lockdown defender, he is still probably the best individual defender that we have. You put him and Q in the starting lineup and the first unit might become a more solid defensive unit. With Curry doing his thing, Q shooting 3s, Marbury driving, and Frye playing pick and pop, you have a solid offensive team also. Why is this strategy so outrageous? Lee will still get his minutes.

The fact that the team has played noticably better when Lee started regardless of what the second unit lost. The fact that Curry looks more comfortable next to Lee than next to Frye.

The Knicks were also 5-10 when Frye starts and 2-3 when Lee does. The fact that the 2nd team isn't playing from 20 points down is a huge help also.
~You can't run from who you are.~
nyk4ever
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12/6/2006  1:55 PM
No ones calling Lee a savior here. He's just a better fit in the KNICKS starting lineup. It's clear.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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