[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Next 6 games VERY VERY important
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 3 of 3 ‹ Previous 1  2  3 
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
technomaster
Posts: 23356
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/30/2003
Member: #426
USA
12/2/2006  12:22 PM
Last year, our biggest problems were that we had no inside presence on offense, nor did we have any pure shooters.

Well... Curry seemingly has evolved since last season and is a better player (he missed a lot of games early). Our outside shooting has improved, mostly because Q-Rich seems physically and mentally healthier.

I think w/ David Lee getting more minutes... and once again, with Q-Rich playing like himself, we've gotten better on defense and better in the rebounding department. Heck, Balkman already appears to give us more energy and heady hustle than Ariza & Qyntel.

We haven't established a shot blocker yet--- but perhaps at some point Frye, James, and Jeffries will bring that aspect to the team. I think the return of Jeffries will go a long way toward making us a better defensive team.
Posted by Allanfan20:

To be fair, we ARE a fairly young team with a lot of nice pieces. Unfortunately, Isiah seems to be completely ignoring our biggest problems:

-No inside presence on defense
-Marbury and Francis and Crawford and Nate being on the same team. 2 of them need to go, preferably Marbury and Francis. I don't mind trading Crawford either.
-No perimeter defenders at the 1 and 2 besides the potential of Nate and Mardy. Big whop.
-No ball distributers who can get the ball moving.
-No consistent go to player. Eddy, Jamal, Steph, Francis and Frye are not go to scorers.

These are the reasons we ARE NOT a good team. We can beat the bad teams will the cows come home and we still wont be a good team, until we start attending to those nescessities. Like I said, I just don't know why Isiah keeps ignoring those issues.

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
AUTOADVERT
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081
12/2/2006  12:23 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:


Ok aside from the potshots...Detroit didn't have a franchise player, they competed and won...The Nets got there without a true franchise player...It doesn't happen overnight..You have to build towards..It's very true we don't have that piece at the moment but we can build the confidence and game of the young players we have and possibly make a big signing in 2009...My point is that Zeke is not as bad as he is portrayed in this forum...

Jason Kidd isn't a franchise player?

Detroit was and is a once in a lifetime team.

No Kidd is not a franchise player, a very good player but not a franchise player...How did his teams do in Dallas and Phoenix...Vince is a franchise player...Franchise to me is putting the ball in the whole when the game is on the line...When the entire arena knows you are getting the ball and no one can stop you....Thats franchise...
nyk4ever
Posts: 41012
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
12/2/2006  12:24 PM
Posted by holfresh:


No Kidd is not a franchise player, a very good player but not a franchise player...How did his teams do in Dallas and Phoenix...Vince is a franchise player...Franchise to me is putting the ball in the whole when the game is on the line...When the entire arena knows you are getting the ball and no one can stop you....Thats franchise...


For the most part you are right, I would give that definition as well but there ARE exceptions. Jason Kidd is certainly one of them.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Anji
Posts: 25523
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 4/14/2006
Member: #1122
USA
12/2/2006  12:37 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Silverfuel:

you are right Anji. The prime is always 28 - 33. Thats when they produce their best stats. Unless the players name is Duncan, Garnett, Kobe, Amare or Lebron you aren't seeing much dominance out of them before they reach 28.
what? are you on ludes????? i dont want to start naming players under 28 to make you sound real foolish but let me say it dominates the nba
Oh please! You name players in their early years, you'll be naming superstar. Even a retard knows that most players come into their prime around 28!

Ok, I see what you mean and I agree. But even great players dominate numbers wise before 28, they also become even better more dominate basketball players in thoughs prime years...
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Silverfuel
Posts: 31750
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2002
Member: #268
USA
12/2/2006  12:42 PM
Posted by Anji:
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Silverfuel:

you are right Anji. The prime is always 28 - 33. Thats when they produce their best stats. Unless the players name is Duncan, Garnett, Kobe, Amare or Lebron you aren't seeing much dominance out of them before they reach 28.
what? are you on ludes????? i dont want to start naming players under 28 to make you sound real foolish but let me say it dominates the nba
Oh please! You name players in their early years, you'll be naming superstar. Even a retard knows that most players come into their prime around 28!

Ok, I see what you mean and I agree. But even great players dominate numbers wise before 28, they also become even better more dominate basketball players in thoughs prime years...
EXACTLY!! When someone says a player has reached his prime, they mean the player has reached his peak production in his stat categories. According to him, players like David Lee will not get any better! He is saying David Lee has effectively realized his potential! Whatever man! And then the dude has the nerve to say I'm on ludes. Whatever.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
12/2/2006  12:47 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by BRIGGS:

ONLY 5-1 will be acceptable if this is a GOOD team.

I think Isiah and this group has made great strides if you are thinking a GOOD team might be found among these lot of players....

3rd worst record in the entire NBA. Those are some great strides.

and yet they have the most road wins in the East. weird.
¿ △ ?
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
12/2/2006  1:52 PM
This is not real rebuilding but it's the CLOSEST to actual rebuilding you'll ever get with a team run by Dolan and Cablevision. Isiah's probably been too committed to rebuilding than he should be if he wants to keep his job. His job would be more secure if he got a bunch of Shareefs, Eric Snows, Theo Ratliffs, and the team could pull out 38 to 40 wins with no future.
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
12/2/2006  2:30 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I think every person on this forum knows Dolan wouldn't let him rebuild. Just because Dolan wouldn't let Isiah rebuild, Isiah should stay here for as long as he likes and quit when he deems it's time to quit? Isiah's way didn't work and it's time to bring in someone else to give it a shot.

WHAT? How can you tell that Isiah's way didn't work? The 1st 1.5 years was about H2O, KT and Steph and starting last year it's more about the younger players Isiah has brought in. Curry, Frye, Lee, Nate, Q, Jared, Balkman and Collins really are new here. 1 full year or less for some. That's not including Francis who is also here for only a short time. How can you pronounce that it's been proven that this group didn't work? See this is why I just don't get you're position on this team. You seem to be confusing the original direction Isiah was going and what has taken place since the start of last year. It's almost a completely new team and you can't seem to accept that. They need time to jell and improve. Detroit didn't get that way over night. It takes time to build and develop a team.

nyk4ever
Posts: 41012
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
12/2/2006  2:33 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by nyk4ever:

I think every person on this forum knows Dolan wouldn't let him rebuild. Just because Dolan wouldn't let Isiah rebuild, Isiah should stay here for as long as he likes and quit when he deems it's time to quit? Isiah's way didn't work and it's time to bring in someone else to give it a shot.

WHAT? How can you tell that Isiah's way didn't work? The 1st 1.5 years was about H2O, KT and Steph and starting last year it's more about the younger players Isiah has brought in. Curry, Frye, Lee, Nate, Q, Jared, Balkman and Collins really are new here. 1 full year or less for some. That's not including Francis who is also here for only a short time. How can you pronounce that it's been proven that this group didn't work? See this is why I just don't get you're position on this team. You seem to be confusing the original direction Isiah was going and what has taken place since the start of last year. It's almost a completely new team and you can't seem to accept that. They need time to jell and improve. Detroit didn't get that way over night. It takes time to build and develop a team.

The fact that Isiah's record has gone down every year since he's been here is a pretty good indication that this team isn't working using his vision.

Don't use Detroit as an example either, they actually have good player on that team. This Knicks team is a collection of roleplayers with no leader and no franchise player. It's not going anywhere.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
12/2/2006  2:49 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

The fact that Isiah's record has gone down every year since he's been here is a pretty good indication that this team isn't working using his vision.

Don't use Detroit as an example either, they actually have good player on that team. This Knicks team is a collection of roleplayers with no leader and no franchise player. It's not going anywhere.

You have to realize that part of the problem in the 1st 1.5 seasons was that H2O was NEVER HEALTHY! He actually got worse. He was a Key part of what that team was supposed to be about. In addition you have to realize that we still wouldn't have had a great team even if he was healthy. Unless you expected him to do the impossible. MOST analysts thought it would take him 5 years to get this team back to respectibility and you wanted that to come in the 1st 2 years?

Then last year was a disaster, but it was supposed to be a year to start fresh with a young team and develop a base to start from. We were supposed to develop our young players and build towards the future. Develop a culture and style of play. We ended up having to do most of that THIS YEAR so we're playing catch up. Still there are signs that we might be starting to come out of it. We'll know more by the end of December.
franco12
Posts: 34069
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 2/19/2004
Member: #599
USA
12/2/2006  4:03 PM
I think Dolan realizes things need to change- that we need to get younger.

Curry was obviously sold him by isiah- I'd prefer we had not made that move.
izybx
Posts: 22366
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 10/16/2006
Member: #1178
USA
12/2/2006  5:18 PM
Posted by franco12:

I think Dolan realizes things need to change- that we need to get younger.

Curry was obviously sold him by isiah- I'd prefer we had not made that move.

Just to play devils advocate, lets say we dont trade switch picks this season and the deal ends up being Curry for Ty Thomas and Sweetney. You dont make that trade?

Follow up question...considering how some people roast a guy like Frye, what do you think they would be saying about Ty Thomas right now if he was on the Knicks? And what do you think they would be saying about Isiah Thomas for drafting him?
Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
SlimPack
Posts: 23588
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/14/2005
Member: #1009
USA
12/2/2006  5:22 PM
the knicks arent rebuilding right now. somehow i doubt isiah had no choice but to try to win now instead of rebuild, but i suppose its possible. none of us really knows what goes on behind closed doors. anyway i wouldnt be as down on isiah as i am now if he simply had a plan. but he doesnt appear to at all. anyway im concerned that this teams ceiling is too low for all the draft picks and cap flexibility sacrificed to assemble it. Im surprised not everyone is. even if all goes well and things start coming together the knicks dont have the personelle to be anything better than a 40 some odd win ball clube imo. but i dont see how its supposed to get any better after that.

[Edited by - slimpack on 12-02-2006 11:42 PM]
izybx
Posts: 22366
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 10/16/2006
Member: #1178
USA
12/2/2006  5:27 PM
Posted by SlimPack:

the knicks arent rebuilding right now. somehow i doubt isiah had no choice but to try to win now instead of rebuild, but i suppose its possible. none of us really knows what goes on behind closed doors. anyway i wouldnt be as down on isiah as i am now if he simply had a plan. but he doesnt appear to at all. anyway im concerned that this teams ceiling is too low for all the draft picks and cap flexibility sacrificed to assemble it. Im surprised not everyone is. even if all goes well and things start coming together the knicks dont have the personelle to be anything better than a 4 some odd win ball clube imo. but i dont see how its supposed to get any better after that.

Yeah i guess Renaldo, Nate, Jamal, Q, Lee, Curry, Frye, Mardy, and Jeffries (average age 24) will not get any better in the next couple years.

Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
nyk4ever
Posts: 41012
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
12/2/2006  5:36 PM
Posted by izybx:
Posted by franco12:

I think Dolan realizes things need to change- that we need to get younger.

Curry was obviously sold him by isiah- I'd prefer we had not made that move.

Just to play devils advocate, lets say we dont trade switch picks this season and the deal ends up being Curry for Ty Thomas and Sweetney. You dont make that trade?

Follow up question...considering how some people roast a guy like Frye, what do you think they would be saying about Ty Thomas right now if he was on the Knicks? And what do you think they would be saying about Isiah Thomas for drafting him?
To answer your first question, I'm not sure if I'd make the trade. Knowing what I know about Curry, the fact that he can't play defense, doesn't rebound and doesn't block shots, I'm not sure I'd want him for 10 million dollars. I honestly would rather save the cap space than have Curry on this roster.

To answer your follow up question... I for one was against drafting Frye based on what I saw from him many times in college, I saw a player who could shoot and could NOT dominate much smaller competition in the post, in the Pac10, a notorious guard play conference. I was very high on Ty Thomas based on what I saw from him last year in college, his energy, his rebounding, his ability to block shots, so I would be very patient with Ty Thomas had he been on the Knicks. I also think Ty would be getting more PT here than he's getting in Chicago because they are a better team and are in a win now mode.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
nyk4ever
Posts: 41012
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
12/2/2006  5:37 PM
Posted by izybx:
Posted by SlimPack:

the knicks arent rebuilding right now. somehow i doubt isiah had no choice but to try to win now instead of rebuild, but i suppose its possible. none of us really knows what goes on behind closed doors. anyway i wouldnt be as down on isiah as i am now if he simply had a plan. but he doesnt appear to at all. anyway im concerned that this teams ceiling is too low for all the draft picks and cap flexibility sacrificed to assemble it. Im surprised not everyone is. even if all goes well and things start coming together the knicks dont have the personelle to be anything better than a 4 some odd win ball clube imo. but i dont see how its supposed to get any better after that.

Yeah i guess Renaldo, Nate, Jamal, Q, Lee, Curry, Frye, Mardy, and Jeffries (average age 24) will not get any better in the next couple years.

They will all get better but not one of them is going to be a franchise caliber player. Thats why many of us are down on what Isiah has done. You NEED a franchise caliber player to win in this league unless you get a blue moon like the Pistons did.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
SlimPack
Posts: 23588
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/14/2005
Member: #1009
USA
12/2/2006  11:26 PM
Posted by izybx:
Posted by SlimPack:

the knicks arent rebuilding right now. somehow i doubt isiah had no choice but to try to win now instead of rebuild, but i suppose its possible. none of us really knows what goes on behind closed doors. anyway i wouldnt be as down on isiah as i am now if he simply had a plan. but he doesnt appear to at all. anyway im concerned that this teams ceiling is too low for all the draft picks and cap flexibility sacrificed to assemble it. Im surprised not everyone is. even if all goes well and things start coming together the knicks dont have the personelle to be anything better than a 4 some odd win ball clube imo. but i dont see how its supposed to get any better after that.

Yeah i guess Renaldo, Nate, Jamal, Q, Lee, Curry, Frye, Mardy, and Jeffries (average age 24) will not get any better in the next couple years.


of course theyll get better. but when they do. thatll take us from being a 28 win team to maybe a 38 win team. thats what i meant when i spoke about this team's ceiling. if we were already a 45 win team, then after you factor in the fact that our young players will improve we'd be something like a 50+ win team, in which case i wouldnt be complaining.

oh and also crawford, q, and jeffries probably wont get alot better. also factor in the fact that while theyre getting better steve and steph (our current current 33 million dollar starting backcourt who are both signed for 2 more seasons) will probably get worse.
Page 3 of 3 ‹ Previous 1  2  3 
« Reply To Topic
Next 6 games VERY VERY important
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy