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OT: Bynum tonight..
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BRIGGS
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11/9/2006  9:43 AM
Posted by Andrew:
Posted by playa2:

Killa , neither Kwame Brown or Olowakandi had the all-time NBA career scoring leader as their mentor.

BIGGGGGGGGGGG DIFFERENCE!

Actually Olowakandi did have Kareem mentoring him...albeit for a short time.

thats right
RIP Crushalot😞
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BlueSeats
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11/9/2006  9:58 AM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by BlueSeats:

I'm not taking a side in this issue but this is what I think. isiah took Frye because he wanted guys from winning programs. he wanted guys who were well schooled and of good character.

he wanted to build with guys who would offset the flakiness of our existing veterans.

(Nate is a bit flaky too, but we know the heart he brings to the game)

So if our team had better (any) leadership he might have been more open to bringing in a slow-bake guy like Bynum, but given the state of the team he wanted guys with a track record and a certain pedigree, if you will.


good way to put it blue seats.... good post...


Thanks bud, and good to see you posting your post-game notes over here.
martin
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11/9/2006  10:00 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by BlueSeats:

I'm not taking a side in this issue but this is what I think. isiah took Frye because he wanted guys from winning programs. he wanted guys who were well schooled and of good character.

he wanted to build with guys who would offset the flakiness of our existing veterans.

(Nate is a bit flaky too, but we know the heart he brings to the game)

So if our team had better (any) leadership he might have been more open to bringing in a slow-bake guy like Bynum, but given the state of the team he wanted guys with a track record and a certain pedigree, if you will.


good way to put it blue seats.... good post...


Thanks bud, and good to see you posting your post-game notes over here.

I agree with what Blue has to say here... it is a stretch to say that Frye is more of a win now type of player but the intent is not missed if you look at it right.
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Ira
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11/9/2006  10:03 AM
Bynum was more of a gamble and hindsight, as always, is 20/20. To his credit, Isaiah liked Bynum and said after the draft that he tried to trade up to get him after taking Frye.

That said, his play this season, even including a bad night is fantastic for a 19 year old. He will be a star.
playa2
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11/9/2006  10:03 AM
Posted by Andrew:
Posted by playa2:

Killa , neither Kwame Brown or Olowakandi had the all-time NBA career scoring leader as their mentor.

BIGGGGGGGGGGG DIFFERENCE!

Actually Olowakandi did have Kareem mentoring him...albeit for a short time.


Did it payoff in that short time ? NO Kandi man is thick upstairs couldn't get thru to him.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
BigSm00th
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11/9/2006  10:08 AM
to look past that Bynum is 19 and more developed than any big on the Knicks b/c he had a game where he was plagued w/ foul trouble (on the 2nd night of a back to back, no less) is silly
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BlueSeats
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11/9/2006  10:24 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by BlueSeats:

I'm not taking a side in this issue but this is what I think. isiah took Frye because he wanted guys from winning programs. he wanted guys who were well schooled and of good character.

he wanted to build with guys who would offset the flakiness of our existing veterans.

(Nate is a bit flaky too, but we know the heart he brings to the game)

So if our team had better (any) leadership he might have been more open to bringing in a slow-bake guy like Bynum, but given the state of the team he wanted guys with a track record and a certain pedigree, if you will.
I think thats like 10% of why he drafted Frye. The other 90% is he was a 4 year college player, was pretty polished and Isiah figured someone like that could come in and help right away. Remember he just traded away his best frontcourt player in KT.


Your separating that from the 10% you agree with but it's really a large part of it. Those 4 years in a GOOD Lute Olson program are part of the pedigree I speak of.

Part of it was indeed that he wanted guys who were ready to contribute, but part of it was he went for an on-base percentage rather than a home-run, and another part was he wanted not just a guy with skills and physical potential but one who had that "knows how to win" mentality, because we had so little of that. Expiring contracts don't generally get that kind of player, so that's what he wanted from the draft.

All of that may certainly backfire on him, and I'm not saying he made the right, or wrong, choice long-term. I'm saying that what was present on the team from a psychological standpoint, and the leadership/chemistry voids he needed to fill, played as much a role in his decision as raw skills and overall potential.

In fact I'll go one step further, I think it was no coincidence that Frye, Lee, and Nate (and Crawford) were all friendly. He didn't only want a "now" guy, he wanted a "team" guy.

And none of this suggest that Bynum doesn't/wont have all those traits I ascribe to Isiah's choice of Frye, he just didn't have the track record to demonstrate them.
TMS
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11/9/2006  10:44 AM
Posted by tkf:

2 points 6 fouls....

hey it is only fair, with all the bynum ass kissing going on around here..

again the overhyping of other players just to put our players down is a little ridiculous...

the Bynum bandwagon is currently in the shop for repairs.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
MS
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11/9/2006  10:56 AM
Thats fine just like that Zeke give you 9 different plans everytime he does something that goes against the last thing he said.

Steph (1 year)2-time allstar in a 10 year career
Jamaal (1 year losing program never been above 500)
Eddy (none, never been on a team that finished above 500)
Franics (never won a playoff series)

Those are his core additions; 0 playoff apearance
(if you want to make the case that Francis went to 2 allstar games, chances are if i could dunk a basketball and hug Yao, half of china would have voted for me to start for the west as well, you can bring that up)

So Isiahs plan is to mix young impresionable kids with a mix of veterans that don't try on a daily basis, and get the most out of their abilities, while learning from supposed stars that don't put forth the effort on defense.

ISIAH you are a genius
Killa4luv
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11/9/2006  11:05 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Killa4luv:

First of all, lets deal with reality here: Bynum may still be a bust, Kwame Brown showed signs of dominance and what is he now? Olowakandi looked ready to break out, what is he now? We have alot of time before we can definitively say anything about Bynum other than he is a project who has shown flashes over something special, and hes young and has lots of time to prove it. Thats it.

As far as drafting, its not as important that you missed x great player, as it is that you at least got a good player where you picked.

And as of yet, even with Frye slumping, Bynum has has to catch up to what Frye showed last year for a long stretch of the season. Thats a fact lke it or not.

Forget Bynum, right now Frye has to prove that he isnt the second coming of Brian Cook. If you take away a small stretch of games last year, thats all he has shown--a 6-10 soft perimeter player. Bynum had the same game as Curry last night. I watched both, and it was the same thing with both guys. Immediate and constant foul trouble. Curry along with Q have been the two Knicks that have really shown radical improvement But the way Curry plays he will have days like this. Im sure Bynum just turning 19 isnt going to be 20-15-3 every night. And to be honest, Bynum has shown more SKILLS than Frye has in the nBA in his small sample. Frye hs shown me a jumpshot---once teams moved up on him, hes been a shell of his few good games. Frye has shown he is soft mentally and physically.

Frye should very well last year that he is not soft. The kid is tough and showed it. He played tough, and played well under pressure situations as a rookie during a crazy season. Hes playing poorly now, but my memory goes past 5 games, Frye is not soft.

Frye also showed some post play last year; and wasn't just a jumpshot. He showed hooks in the post and paint, and a mid range banker off the glass ala Tim Duncan. He also showed some solid passing skills as well. I will give you that what Ive seen of Bynum in the post eclipses what Frye showed. But they play different games. Bynum is 7-2, and isn't money out to 18 feet, Frye is.
Killa4luv
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11/9/2006  11:07 AM
Posted by Andrew:
Posted by playa2:

Killa , neither Kwame Brown or Olowakandi had the all-time NBA career scoring leader as their mentor.

BIGGGGGGGGGGG DIFFERENCE!

Actually Olowakandi did have Kareem mentoring him...albeit for a short time.

Hall of fame mentoring is over-rated.
If MJ mentors Craw is he gonna 'get it' all of a sudden?
MS
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11/9/2006  11:07 AM
he is not money right now, he has no confidence in his jumper and is shooting under 25%. And he will continue to do so unless Isiah moves him to the second unit and runs a few plays for him. The guards need to make more of an effort to get the big people involved
BlueSeats
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11/9/2006  11:12 AM
Posted by MS:

Thats fine just like that Zeke give you 9 different plans everytime he does something that goes against the last thing he said.

Steph (1 year)2-time allstar in a 10 year career
Jamaal (1 year losing program never been above 500)
Eddy (none, never been on a team that finished above 500)
Franics (never won a playoff series)

Those are his core additions; 0 playoff apearance
(if you want to make the case that Francis went to 2 allstar games, chances are if i could dunk a basketball and hug Yao, half of china would have voted for me to start for the west as well, you can bring that up)

So Isiahs plan is to mix young impresionable kids with a mix of veterans that don't try on a daily basis, and get the most out of their abilities, while learning from supposed stars that don't put forth the effort on defense.

ISIAH you are a genius


Exactly. We bring in rookies to mentor our veterans.
joec32033
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11/9/2006  11:29 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by MS:

Thats fine just like that Zeke give you 9 different plans everytime he does something that goes against the last thing he said.

Steph (1 year)2-time allstar in a 10 year career
Jamaal (1 year losing program never been above 500)
Eddy (none, never been on a team that finished above 500)
Franics (never won a playoff series)

Those are his core additions; 0 playoff apearance
(if you want to make the case that Francis went to 2 allstar games, chances are if i could dunk a basketball and hug Yao, half of china would have voted for me to start for the west as well, you can bring that up)

So Isiahs plan is to mix young impresionable kids with a mix of veterans that don't try on a daily basis, and get the most out of their abilities, while learning from supposed stars that don't put forth the effort on defense.

ISIAH you are a genius


Exactly. We bring in rookies to mentor our veterans.

Build a team ass-backwards....

It's so crazy it just might work!
~You can't run from who you are.~
Elite
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11/9/2006  11:51 AM
haha glad i diddnt trade for him in my fantasy league :)
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OT: Bynum tonight..
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