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Build the team around D Lee and Q Rich. ... Move the Rest of the Team.
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Allanfan20
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11/3/2006  2:44 AM
Offdameterzzzz! It's good to finally see you and your great posting once again. I hope you will post here a lot more often, as it was always nice to read whatever you wrote.

And I agree with most of what you said except a couple of things. Yes, David Lee and QRich are definitely keepers, and nobody on this team should be untradable. However, I saw Jamal and his terrible shot selection, but I saw some brightness out of him last night too, as he made some big defensive plays down the stretch, and he seemed to really be the only guy willing to step up. But yes, he better now be reverrting to his old ways. That will be frustrating to deal with, in terms of his shot selection.

Channing Frye was awful last night. He's very talented, but lets see how he bounces back. I just don't see him being a successful starting PF in the league, at this point in his career. Let him come off the bench and shoot the lights out while guarding easier opponents

Marbury and Francis need to go, but I was very impressed by Curry.

So ODM, like I said, Q and Lee do need to stay, but a lot of the other guys are a work in progress. We'll see how the Jamals and Curry's and Frye's of the world turn out, but definitely get rid of Francis and Marbury.

ODMs, I hope to see you around here more often!
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TMS
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11/3/2006  9:38 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by nykshaknbake:

He did blow chunks. How many more wide open shots did he have to brick for you to see that? It's nice he put in the effort and he'll get a gold star for that in kindergarten, but he wasn't a stellar defender either last season.
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by nykshaknbake:

I know that all last season he couldn't hit water from a boat.....Last I checked this was a BASKETBALL game not a Psych ward. It's nice that someone was able to tough personal situations out. Has little to do with who I want this team to feature on the court.

So you're gonna hafta explain how Q having a tough time makes him the man on the Knicks, when he completly blew chunks last year. Cause you dun make any sense at all

Q actually put EFFORT into playing defense last year. When his offensive game wasn't clicking he was out there busting his ass on defense, which is a lot more than most Knicks players can say. For that reason, he did not "blow chunks." ATleast he attempted to earn his salary.



[Edited by - nykshaknbake on 11-03-2006 12:51 AM]

compared to the rest of NY guards, Q was stellar and actually gave effort in this department.

Q hurt his back. Q hurt his ankle. He played hurt all year and didn't complain about injuries. He sucked on offense but still brought it on D. Never gave up. Never spoke out against management or coach.

Dude lost a brother and had his father shot. Had a bad falling out with Brandy. That last bit is not really a good enough excuse to play poorly but we are all human and can understand it.

I want players who compete against all odds cause those are the ones that are potential championship calibar players.

as the old saying goes, it's during the worst of times that you find out the true character of an individual... Q went through probably the worst year of his life last year & he still gave a full effort on the floor & never complained about the coaching, the system or the criticisms the team was getting from the fans & media... he stood up to the criticism & gave it his all... yes, his shot was piss poor last year & he didn't come close to living up to the expectations Knick fans had for him, but he still didn't give up on the season when many others on this team did... i'm going to bet you right now that you will be respecting Q above just about any other Knick on this team by the end of the season... he's 1 of the few on this team that i hope sticks around for the longhaul.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
izybx
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11/3/2006  10:01 AM
"Not giving up", and "gave his all" are euthenisms for playing like straight ass. If Q steps up this year thats great, but hold your horses fellas, cause all ive seen from him is one good regular season game out of 83. I love how arguably one of the worst players on the worst team last year has one good game and we need to build a team around him.

Tho he does look good. Maybe its because he looks like he dropped 20 lbs in the offseason?

Lee is a talent. I like Lee as well and the way hes playing I think I might keep him before Frye.

But calm down fellas, lets see who standing out after 20 games and then say who needs to stay and who needs to go.
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babyKnicks
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11/3/2006  10:07 AM
isnt' this what Isiah is doing already?

Well, you gotta keep craw and curry and frye and nate and balkman and Jeffries.

think 2010.

[Edited by - babyKnicks on 11-03-2006 10:08 AM]
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TMS
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11/3/2006  10:28 AM
Posted by izybx:

"Not giving up", and "gave his all" are euthenisms for playing like straight ass. If Q steps up this year thats great, but hold your horses fellas, cause all ive seen from him is one good regular season game out of 83. I love how arguably one of the worst players on the worst team last year has one good game and we need to build a team around him.

Tho he does look good. Maybe its because he looks like he dropped 20 lbs in the offseason?

Lee is a talent. I like Lee as well and the way hes playing I think I might keep him before Frye.

But calm down fellas, lets see who standing out after 20 games and then say who needs to stay and who needs to go.

dude, did u ever watch Q play before he got to the Knicks? if u ever watched him play as a Clipper you'd know he can be downright bruising on the post against smaller G's... he's not just a gunslinger from the 3 point line like he became in Phoenix... what i find funny is all you guys labeling him as a crappy player based on 1 year in which he posted some career low #'s after all the crap surrounding his personal life that he had to go through... Q's shown himself to be a very good player throughout his career... 1 bad season doesn't define him... watch him play this year & you'll become a believer, i'm pretty confident of that.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
nyk4ever
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11/3/2006  10:59 AM
Posted by babyKnicks:

isnt' this what Isiah is doing already?

Well, you gotta keep craw and curry and frye and nate and balkman and Jeffries.

think 2010.

[Edited by - babyKnicks on 11-03-2006 10:08 AM]

RV. Whats with the new name?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Allanfan20
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11/3/2006  11:00 AM
For Quentin, last year is gone. Him playing poorly was a large part of that, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt (With his family issues and his injury woes) b/c he still went out and played hard without any excuses. He was one of the few. Now he seemed to be healthier (Although there were a couple of scary moments yesterday) and he seems to be in GREAT shape and ready to get back to his old self.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
oohah
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11/3/2006  11:03 AM
This is the "whoever did good last game" effect.

I like Q, but build AROUND him? Yeah, maybe in the catholic high-school league!

David Lee can be a core player too, but build around him? Sorry, that makes no sense.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
martin
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11/3/2006  11:03 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by babyKnicks:

isnt' this what Isiah is doing already?

Well, you gotta keep craw and curry and frye and nate and balkman and Jeffries.

think 2010.

[Edited by - babyKnicks on 11-03-2006 10:08 AM]

RV. Whats with the new name?

LOL. good catch.
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martin
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11/3/2006  11:06 AM
Posted by oohah:

This is the "whoever did good last game" effect.

I like Q, but build AROUND him? Yeah, maybe in the catholic high-school league!

David Lee can be a core player too, but build around him? Sorry, that makes no sense.

oohah

I don't think it was a build around him in a literal sense, more like... let's build a team with guys like this. Dudses who are willing to give full effort for 48 minutes and don't back down from anyone. That's what it takes to build a championship team.

The Knicks ain't goin' nowhere in the playoffs with creampuff defense and rebouding that Curry and Frye provide. Nor are they going anywhere with sivs for guardplay.

No one is saying that Q and Lee should be centerpieces to build around, and shame on you (and anyone else) for thinking that... too literal. But we should trade for players LIKE them. And we still need a 2-way allstar to lead the way.
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nyk4ever
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11/3/2006  11:12 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by oohah:

This is the "whoever did good last game" effect.

I like Q, but build AROUND him? Yeah, maybe in the catholic high-school league!

David Lee can be a core player too, but build around him? Sorry, that makes no sense.

oohah

I don't think it was a build around him in a literal sense, more like... let's build a team with guys like this. Dudses who are willing to give full effort for 48 minutes and don't back down from anyone. That's what it takes to build a championship team.

The Knicks ain't goin' nowhere in the playoffs with creampuff defense and rebouding that Curry and Frye provide. Nor are they going anywhere with sivs for guardplay.

No one is saying that Q and Lee should be centerpieces to build around, and shame on you (and anyone else) for thinking that... too literal. But we should trade for players LIKE them. And we still need a 2-way allstar to lead the way.

Exactly Martin. I just want guys on this team that are going to leave their heart out on the floor and play hard on both ends of the ball for a full 48 minutes. I'm so tired of this crap where guys do not take defense seriously, obviously offense is very important, but offense loses its importance when players on your team aren't playing defense. I don't care if the Knicks had guys that SUCKED on defense, as long as they tried and I don't see many guys trying. Of course you got guys like Lee, Q, Balkman, Jeffries who atleast put an effort on defense. Thats all I want.

EFFORT

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oohah
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11/3/2006  11:44 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by oohah:

This is the "whoever did good last game" effect.

I like Q, but build AROUND him? Yeah, maybe in the catholic high-school league!

David Lee can be a core player too, but build around him? Sorry, that makes no sense.

oohah

I don't think it was a build around him in a literal sense, more like... let's build a team with guys like this. Dudses who are willing to give full effort for 48 minutes and don't back down from anyone. That's what it takes to build a championship team.

The Knicks ain't goin' nowhere in the playoffs with creampuff defense and rebouding that Curry and Frye provide. Nor are they going anywhere with sivs for guardplay.

No one is saying that Q and Lee should be centerpieces to build around, and shame on you (and anyone else) for thinking that... too literal. But we should trade for players LIKE them. And we still need a 2-way allstar to lead the way.

He wrote it pretty damn literally, so why shold I not take it literally? Writing build around heart and effort players is one thing, but picking 2 players to build around and then writing about why each other specific player should be out is a very literal thing to say.

So: shame on you for saying shame on me for reading something the way it is written.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
izybx
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11/3/2006  12:07 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by izybx:

"Not giving up", and "gave his all" are euthenisms for playing like straight ass. If Q steps up this year thats great, but hold your horses fellas, cause all ive seen from him is one good regular season game out of 83. I love how arguably one of the worst players on the worst team last year has one good game and we need to build a team around him.

Tho he does look good. Maybe its because he looks like he dropped 20 lbs in the offseason?

Lee is a talent. I like Lee as well and the way hes playing I think I might keep him before Frye.

But calm down fellas, lets see who standing out after 20 games and then say who needs to stay and who needs to go.

dude, did u ever watch Q play before he got to the Knicks? if u ever watched him play as a Clipper you'd know he can be downright bruising on the post against smaller G's... he's not just a gunslinger from the 3 point line like he became in Phoenix... what i find funny is all you guys labeling him as a crappy player based on 1 year in which he posted some career low #'s after all the crap surrounding his personal life that he had to go through... Q's shown himself to be a very good player throughout his career... 1 bad season doesn't define him... watch him play this year & you'll become a believer, i'm pretty confident of that.


Im not trying to come across as a Q hater, cause I like Q, and I hope that he plays like he did when hes averaging 17+ with the clips. But recent performance is a better indicator of a players ability. Look at Vin Baker, a former all star, injury free, relatively young. His poor play was based on personal problems too and look how he turned out.

Im not trying to say Q is the net Vin Baker, I hope that he steps it up, im just not going to say that after one game the dude should have a team based around him. Show me 20 games where hes doing something and maybe ill change my tune.


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TMS
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11/3/2006  12:07 PM
Posted by oohah:

He wrote it pretty damn literally, so why shold I not take it literally?

aren't u the same person who said you expected to see Curry put up 25 & 18 the other night based on his 1st half performance & then backtracked on that by saying you didn't mean it in a literal sense?

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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11/3/2006  12:13 PM
Posted by izybx:
Im not trying to say Q is the net Vin Baker, I hope that he steps it up, im just not going to say that after one game the dude should have a team based around him. Show me 20 games where hes doing something and maybe ill change my tune.

again, i think ur taking the comment in the wrong context... the idea is not that Q would be the franchise player on this team... the idea is that you take 2 guys like Lee & Q who play the game the right way & have the right team first attitude, & you build around that w/other guys who share in those same types of attributes... obviously neither Lee nor Q will ever be considered as "franchise calibre talent" anytime soon, but the idea is to get guys in here who show some heart, fire & character, & build upon that... we have a couple "stars" on this team who are primadonnas & have been playing with a "me-first" attitude throughout their careers... they never take accountability for their own failures as players, & instead like to point the fingers at other factors... i think the point here is that we need players who will be accountable, who will fight no matter what the circumstances, & who will represent the Knick franchise w/pride & won't quit when things aren't going the right way... i know it sounds a little idealistic, but it's a good thing to model a franchise after... the glamor & glitz of the big name stars is all well & good, but most NY fans want to return to that blue collar style of game that the old classic Knick teams were modelled after.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-03-2006 12:15 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
oohah
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11/3/2006  12:18 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by oohah:

He wrote it pretty damn literally, so why shold I not take it literally?

aren't u the same person who said you expected to see Curry put up 25 & 18 the other night based on his 1st half performance & then backtracked on that by saying you didn't mean it in a literal sense?

No I did not backtrack. Had I gone into a long shcpiel describing how he should have scored each and every point and grabbed each and every rebound, thorouhly picking through each and every situation telling you at what point it should have happened you may have a point. If I had entitled the thread: Eddie Curry Should have scored exactly 25 and grabbed exactly 18 boards, then you might have a point.

But keep trying, if you read each of my posts carefully all season and cross-reference them in excel, searching through them every day...you might get me.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
wsdm
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11/3/2006  3:54 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by nykshaknbake:

I want the guy that can handle his weapon and fights well. He can be brave and have all the heart in the world but if he sucks, what good is he? I'm willing to give Q another chance, but I honestly think anyone who thinks he's the cornerstone of the team is delusional.
Posted by martin:
Posted by wsdm:

Q was one of the worst players in the entire league last year. Let's not overreact to one good game. In 99% of his Knick career, he's been the kind of player you want to keep as far away as possible from your team.

yeah but do you believe that last year was an anomoly or just like any other year of his career?

Q was injured and went through Hell with his personal life and he still wanted to fight through it and play and never quit. That's the kind of guy I want in the battlefield next to me.
Yeah, and Q was awful last year *before* the personal issues.

Excellent, perhaps you are close enough to Q to know all of his personal issues. Please let us know what they were and how devestating they were.

Also, let us know about your knowlegde on Q's injuries throughout the season.
So you're saying he had personal stuff and injuries that simply weren't reported? That's a convenient excuse you could make for any player
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OffDaMeterzzzz
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11/3/2006  4:16 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by oohah:

This is the "whoever did good last game" effect.

I like Q, but build AROUND him? Yeah, maybe in the catholic high-school league!

David Lee can be a core player too, but build around him? Sorry, that makes no sense.

oohah

I don't think it was a build around him in a literal sense, more like... let's build a team with guys like this. Dudses who are willing to give full effort for 48 minutes and don't back down from anyone. That's what it takes to build a championship team.

The Knicks ain't goin' nowhere in the playoffs with creampuff defense and rebouding that Curry and Frye provide. Nor are they going anywhere with sivs for guardplay.

No one is saying that Q and Lee should be centerpieces to build around, and shame on you (and anyone else) for thinking that... too literal. But we should trade for players LIKE them. And we still need a 2-way allstar to lead the way.


Thank you. Exactly my Point. Sorry for the poor wording on my part. My idea is to phase out the team as quickly as possible and just hold on to Lee and Q Rich. Neither of them are obviously Franchise talent.

Unfortunately the NYK's are constantly phased out for other team's drift wood. What success did Curry and Crawford have in Chicago? Not much from what I remember. Yet we have both on our squad. Neither Marbury or Francis have had much success in the NBA.

We have to go after players who work hard on both ends of the floor, who never give up and who never pass blame. We need players who hold themselves accountable, not the rest of the world.

I would try pawning off Steve and Steph for players of lesser skill and talent but who have shorter contracts. If ownership is wise they will use the draft and try to get under the cap. This is not a guaranteed recipe for success, however trading ending contracts for big contracts has not worked in our favor.

I would also consider keeping Jeffries, Balkman and Robinson. The line stops there for me. To me the rest of the team are not winners. Creampuffs dont make noise in the playoffs and tend not to make it there.

Whoever brought up the quote from the movie the Rock w Connery and Cage hit the nail on the head. Winners go home and .... the prom Queen.
nyk4ever
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11/3/2006  4:22 PM
Posted by OffDaMeterzzzz:



Whoever brought up the quote from the movie the Rock w Connery and Cage hit the nail on the head. Winners go home and .... the prom Queen.

Haha, that was me!

"Losers always whine about doing their best, while the winners go home and **** the prom queen"
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anrst
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11/3/2006  4:49 PM
I agree that Lee and Richardson are the only players we have worth keeping ... unfortunately they're not the kind of guys you build around... they're not franchise players ...

Nate has heart ... Crawford means well... I guess they can stay too
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