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Frye is the weak link
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BlueSeats
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10/28/2006  3:32 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by BlueSeats:

Remember when dudes thought Frye should play at SF?

I still think he is capable of spot duty there, on offense he would be fine, on defense he hurts...just like at PF and at C.


he can sorta play there cause he can shoot from the perimeter but ideally your SF should be your 1st or second most athletic players, with a good handle and a good slash to the basket. And he'd be like a lampost defending those prototypical SFs.
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joec32033
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10/28/2006  4:19 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by BlueSeats:

Remember when dudes thought Frye should play at SF?

I still think he is capable of spot duty there, on offense he would be fine, on defense he hurts...just like at PF and at C.


he can sorta play there cause he can shoot from the perimeter but ideally your SF should be your 1st or second most athletic players, with a good handle and a good slash to the basket. And he'd be like a lampost defending those prototypical SFs.

He's like a lamp post defending PF's and C's. My point always was that he had the offensive game for the SF spot. Being a weak defender everywhere, it doesn't really matter where he played.
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playa2
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10/28/2006  4:19 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

He did pretty well in transition last year and in summer league. I'm not giving up on the kid yet, Isiah (or whoever our coach may be) needs to figure out how to use him (pick-n-pop?), but he's gonna be one of our better players. He's not good on D, but he'll be a decent help defender and weakside shot blocker.
Yea you're right about last yr.

This is a new yr, I believe teams know how to go at him to get him off the court with foul trouble.

How are you gonna use him with a pick and pop with steph and francis with the no hand check rule, neither is a pass 1st pg.

His only hope is to be relegated to the 2nd unit and play with Jamal Crawford. At least he tries to get his bigs involved.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
SugarRayRichardson
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10/28/2006  4:29 PM
Posted by playa2:

He's a tweener, the guy is too slow or not strong enough to play either positions PF-C-SF

exatly. too slow for pfs and not strong enough for centers. But he will get better. duncan isnt that fleet of foot but he is great defending most pfs.
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
PresIke
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10/28/2006  4:33 PM
I don't get this "out of position" argument. Did Frye not play PF for most of his minutes last season? I think we should give the guy a chance to see what he does in the reg season before we start running him out of town on a rail.

But I guess for some of us, as soon as any Knick shows any dangerous signs, then he must suck and be traded.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
Silverfuel
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10/28/2006  4:36 PM
Posted by joec32033:

He's like a lamp post defending PF's and C's. My point always was that he had the offensive game for the SF spot. Being a weak defender everywhere, it doesn't really matter where he played.
Thats under rating his defense. He isn't that bad that he cannot be useful at all. Come on dude, Krstic isn't like a crappy PF. He cant drop 15-20 points on most decent PF's. I'd be annoyed if he gave up 20 points to crappy PF's.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Silverfuel
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10/28/2006  4:36 PM
Posted by PresIke:

I don't get this "out of position" argument. Did Frye not play PF for most of his minutes last season? I think we should give the guy a chance to see what he does in the reg season before we start running him out of town on a rail.

But I guess for some of us, as soon as any Knick shows any dangerous signs, then he must suck and be traded.
Good post man.
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fishmike
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10/28/2006  4:41 PM
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by playa2:

He's a tweener, the guy is too slow or not strong enough to play either positions PF-C-SF

exatly. too slow for pfs and not strong enough for centers. But he will get better. duncan isnt that fleet of foot but he is great defending most pfs.
here's the thing.... I think to slow for PFs is a fair generalization. Not strong enough for centers isnt.
East starters:
Collins, Rasho, Dalembert, anyone from Bos (Kandi, Perkins, etc)
Central starters:
Ben, Foster, Bogut, Big Z
South:
Darko, Zaza, Shaq, Brezec

West isnt much worse.. Yao obviously, but who else is?

I dont see Frye getting pushed around by most of those guys.


"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
oohah
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10/28/2006  6:10 PM
http://www.82games.com/0506/05NJN15C.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0506/05NJN16C.HTM

As you can see Collins ONLY played center last year, and Krstic only played center when Collins was out of the game, the majority of his minutes at PF. Glad I could clear that up for you.

The only thing you have made clear is that you cannot admit when you are wrong under any circumstance, even when you are proven wrong beyond a shadow of doubt.

I don't care what 82 games sez. They don't decide anything. Krstic's own team has him labeled as a center and has been calling him a center since he arrived. I also don't care if Collins starts and defends the center spot. As I have explained to you but apparently you did not read, sometimes teams play 2 centers. (Ewing and Cartwright, Olajuman and Sampson).

Is that true or is it not true? Do teams play 2 centers sometimes Fish? Is it true?

If they started Krstic at PG would he transmogrify into a PG in your view?

Krstic is a 7 footer who plays the game of a center. That makes him a center.

***

The fact that Frye played center in college has little bearing on his position in the NBA. Remember Mike Sweetney? He played 4 years of center at Georgetown and was very good at it! Do you want him to start at center? No wait, don't answer that...
here's the thing.... I think to slow for PFs is a fair generalization. Not strong enough for centers isnt.
East starters:
Collins, Rasho, Dalembert, anyone from Bos (Kandi, Perkins, etc)
Central starters:
Ben, Foster, Bogut, Big Z
South:
Darko, Zaza, Shaq, Brezec

Here is the problem, Frye not being "strong enough" is not the issue. Nate Robinson is stronger than Frye. It's "big enough" that is the issue. Frye can play some spot minutes at center and he will be fine. But you will see him pick up a lot of fouls real early against starting scrub centers like Rasho and he will never get his game in order.

Go ahead and set the kid up to fail. Then you will have the joy of saying "I told you so" to me.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
playa2
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10/28/2006  6:13 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:
Posted by playa2:

He's a tweener, the guy is too slow or not strong enough to play either positions PF-C-SF

exatly. too slow for pfs and not strong enough for centers. But he will get better. duncan isnt that fleet of foot but he is great defending most pfs.
here's the thing.... I think to slow for PFs is a fair generalization. Not strong enough for centers isnt.
East starters:
Collins, Rasho, Dalembert, anyone from Bos (Kandi, Perkins, etc)
Central starters:
Ben, Foster, Bogut, Big Z
South:
Darko, Zaza, Shaq, Brezec

West isnt much worse.. Yao obviously, but who else is?

I dont see Frye getting pushed around by most of those guys.


Replace Foster with Oneal pacers are going small ball with harrington granger and oneal.

Replace Darko with Battie or D.Howard, word is DARKO's a bench boy again.

Fishmike maybe the word pushed around is too strong a word to describe Frye inability to stay on the court.

He survived last yr because many didn't know how well he shot the rock, remember how clyde always brought out how teams were leaving him open.

If teams get up in Frye's grill he has to put in on the floor and he hasn't developed that part of his game yet.

He's a half court c/pf on a upand down tempo team this yr.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
rvhoss
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10/28/2006  6:21 PM
yep...I believe this is what I call "flailing"

once a year fishy...once a year you flail.

Frye is NOT the weak link. I disagree with the title.

I believe he is the Key.
all kool aid all the time.
EnySpree
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10/28/2006  7:40 PM
I gotta say I'm very annoyed with this thread.

So I don't get punched in my mouth on Friday I will say this: frye can go to hell for all I care.

Now I think the dude can play and should improve but he has not. No he hasn't. Not one bit. No one lie and say he has.people are trashing curry but that dude has gotten better and has added a jumpshot!

Another thing. He is not a kid. He is a grown ass man. He is almost worthy of the enyspree ***** award. Stop giving him excuses. Chris webber made a fool out of him without even moving too much. His defense is terrible.

My thing with frye is he has to just play and stop complaining to the refs. He doesn't have a post up game outside of a hookshot. He doesn't get in there and bang for rebounds. He just doesn't have a presence on the court at all unless they are catering to his jumpshot. Now Frye has a dope jumper but if the knicks have to go out of their way to get him open for it than he is a liability and just as much a selfish bastard as marbs.

I'm watching frye hard. I'm comparing it to how I felt about ariza and his d-league ass. Play the game and get better. If the knicks have to bench him for David lee, that is counter productive and frye should be traded. Traded for a dude that will mix it up inside and help curry out there. I'm looking at zack Randolph. He can't block shots but he can bang and score inside, rebound and hit the deep jumper. And he aint no ***** like frye is showing signs of.
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djsunyc
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10/28/2006  7:40 PM
after december, frye was beginning to struggle. many chalked it up to lb and his crazy sub patterns but we saw how frye started missing those jumpers and we saw other teams adjust their defenses on him. so this isn't out of the blue. it's just surprising b/c lb isn't here anymore but the troubling signs have continued.

too much pressure on him. i think he can score 20 pts easy in this league. but i think he needs a break. put him in the 2nd unit, less pressure, more opportunity, especially without two guards hoisting up the majority of the shots.
fishmike
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10/28/2006  8:43 PM
Posted by oohah:
http://www.82games.com/0506/05NJN15C.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0506/05NJN16C.HTM

As you can see Collins ONLY played center last year, and Krstic only played center when Collins was out of the game, the majority of his minutes at PF. Glad I could clear that up for you.

The only thing you have made clear is that you cannot admit when you are wrong under any circumstance, even when you are proven wrong beyond a shadow of doubt.

I don't care what 82 games sez. They don't decide anything. Krstic's own team has him labeled as a center and has been calling him a center since he arrived. I also don't care if Collins starts and defends the center spot. As I have explained to you but apparently you did not read, sometimes teams play 2 centers. (Ewing and Cartwright, Olajuman and Sampson).

Is that true or is it not true? Do teams play 2 centers sometimes Fish? Is it true?

If they started Krstic at PG would he transmogrify into a PG in your view?

Krstic is a 7 footer who plays the game of a center. That makes him a center.

***

The fact that Frye played center in college has little bearing on his position in the NBA. Remember Mike Sweetney? He played 4 years of center at Georgetown and was very good at it! Do you want him to start at center? No wait, don't answer that...
here's the thing.... I think to slow for PFs is a fair generalization. Not strong enough for centers isnt.
East starters:
Collins, Rasho, Dalembert, anyone from Bos (Kandi, Perkins, etc)
Central starters:
Ben, Foster, Bogut, Big Z
South:
Darko, Zaza, Shaq, Brezec

Here is the problem, Frye not being "strong enough" is not the issue. Nate Robinson is stronger than Frye. It's "big enough" that is the issue. Frye can play some spot minutes at center and he will be fine. But you will see him pick up a lot of fouls real early against starting scrub centers like Rasho and he will never get his game in order.

Go ahead and set the kid up to fail. Then you will have the joy of saying "I told you so" to me.

oohah
so if Bernie Williams plays left field does that mean he's a left fielder or a centerfielder?

Krstic plays the game of a center... please share with us your basketball knowledge and clearly define the difference between center and PF.

Where's the I told you so? Because I'm right about Collins playing every minute he's on the floor at center?

How big does a center have to be? How tall. For god sakes he's Duncan's hieght. He's an inch shorter than Ewing, and an inch taller that Alonzo.

As for setting him up to fail? Playing him at the same position he's played his whole life is setting him up to fail?

Frye AT PF is a problem. Just watch the freakin games. Geez your really being a baby tonight. Why bring up Sweetney? Is Sweetney 6'11 or is he 6'8?

I want the guy to succeed. I'm sorry but if your getting overmatched against the Rashos of the league moving to PF isnt the fix

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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10/28/2006  8:45 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

I gotta say I'm very annoyed with this thread.

So I don't get punched in my mouth on Friday I will say this: frye can go to hell for all I care.

Now I think the dude can play and should improve but he has not. No he hasn't. Not one bit. No one lie and say he has.people are trashing curry but that dude has gotten better and has added a jumpshot!

Another thing. He is not a kid. He is a grown ass man. He is almost worthy of the enyspree ***** award. Stop giving him excuses. Chris webber made a fool out of him without even moving too much. His defense is terrible.

My thing with frye is he has to just play and stop complaining to the refs. He doesn't have a post up game outside of a hookshot. He doesn't get in there and bang for rebounds. He just doesn't have a presence on the court at all unless they are catering to his jumpshot. Now Frye has a dope jumper but if the knicks have to go out of their way to get him open for it than he is a liability and just as much a selfish bastard as marbs.

I'm watching frye hard. I'm comparing it to how I felt about ariza and his d-league ass. Play the game and get better. If the knicks have to bench him for David lee, that is counter productive and frye should be traded. Traded for a dude that will mix it up inside and help curry out there. I'm looking at zack Randolph. He can't block shots but he can bang and score inside, rebound and hit the deep jumper. And he aint no ***** like frye is showing signs of.

Zach is a beast, and I would LOVE to have a player like that. Notice I say "like that"

To bad he's one part retard, one part criminal. If we didnt have enough personality disorders already I would take a shot on him.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
joec32033
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10/28/2006  8:48 PM
To bad he's one part retard, one part criminal.

The Knicks motto thread is a few threads over.
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EnySpree
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10/28/2006  9:04 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by EnySpree:

I gotta say I'm very annoyed with this thread.

So I don't get punched in my mouth on Friday I will say this: frye can go to hell for all I care.

Now I think the dude can play and should improve but he has not. No he hasn't. Not one bit. No one lie and say he has.people are trashing curry but that dude has gotten better and has added a jumpshot!

Another thing. He is not a kid. He is a grown ass man. He is almost worthy of the enyspree ***** award. Stop giving him excuses. Chris webber made a fool out of him without even moving too much. His defense is terrible.

My thing with frye is he has to just play and stop complaining to the refs. He doesn't have a post up game outside of a hookshot. He doesn't get in there and bang for rebounds. He just doesn't have a presence on the court at all unless they are catering to his jumpshot. Now Frye has a dope jumper but if the knicks have to go out of their way to get him open for it than he is a liability and just as much a selfish bastard as marbs.

I'm watching frye hard. I'm comparing it to how I felt about ariza and his d-league ass. Play the game and get better. If the knicks have to bench him for David lee, that is counter productive and frye should be traded. Traded for a dude that will mix it up inside and help curry out there. I'm looking at zack Randolph. He can't block shots but he can bang and score inside, rebound and hit the deep jumper. And he aint no ***** like frye is showing signs of.

Zach is a beast, and I would LOVE to have a player like that. Notice I say "like that"

To bad he's one part retard, one part criminal. If we didnt have enough personality disorders already I would take a shot on him.

I feel you on that fishy. Zack maybe a thug but I never heard him acting like a bitch on the court or off the court when it came to basketball. The guy brings it. Knicks need him or boozer or like you said, "someone like that".

I think that is cool as hell to say what the knicks actually need. Its fun to see who really can play and who are just posing. The knicks are forming an identity. Its a beautiful thing.

If frye is not around for the revolution, to hell with him.
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fishmike
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10/28/2006  9:11 PM
no but Zach was involved with a couple fights... dont remember the details but wasnt he the one that broke Patterson's face? And also the guy that threw the ball and Rueben Bomjte x2 that actually landed the guy on IR.

I have a lot more optimism with Franbury working than Curry and Frye together. I dont know what the big deal is.. just start Lee and bring Frye off the bench. Curry's only playing 30 minutes anyway
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
EnySpree
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10/28/2006  9:33 PM
I'm down for lee starting. Still frye has this Duncan rasheed potential on him. It would be interesting to see what the knicks can get for him.

Frye is supposed to be this and that the knicks can't start lee over him cuz that would kill his value.

Can I be ignorant and say Sean may and another dude for frye? Lol.
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joec32033
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10/28/2006  9:39 PM
Posted by fishmike:

no but Zach was involved with a couple fights... dont remember the details but wasnt he the one that broke Patterson's face? And also the guy that threw the ball and Rueben Bomjte x2 that actually landed the guy on IR.

I have a lot more optimism with Franbury working than Curry and Frye together. I dont know what the big deal is.. just start Lee and bring Frye off the bench. Curry's only playing 30 minutes anyway

Wallace and Wells threw the ball that hurt Boumtje. He did break Patterson's face, though.
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