chew on this:
http://www.82games.com/0506/05NYK18C.HTM

Frye plays better against centers. Not only does he score more, but as a PF he was outscored 22-14 (per 48). As a center he outscored the guy he was guarding 20-13. Also he draws more fouls 7.7:4.9 as a center than as a PF.

Proofs in the pudding

Posted by fishmike:

well, they played Ewing for a year at PF. It wasnt so great

Bogut I will give you as wash, although he plays a more aggressive game, so he maybe he "appears" quicker.

The others your just off your rocker. Mentioning Dirk and Frye in the same breath as far as athletic just tells me your blinded by bias, blind or have never seen Dirk play live. He's a 7 foot guard, plain and simple. The other guys are just more athletic than Frye, and by alot. What I'm seeing are faster, quicker guys. The only guy Frye has a chance of staying in front of is Bogut.

Anyway you have stated your opinion, which I disagree with. Let the Frye/Curry experiment go on... see where it takes us

I think your perceptions are being colored by the way the team was played last year. For instance, we all know that David Lee and Nate Robinson are great athletes, but I don't think we know how great yet, because they were rarely in a position to show it. This year those chances will over floweth.

Check out these following combine results, not only does Frye match up pretty well with many of these guys in footspeed and jumping, but his beanpole skinny ass was stronger than the behemoth Chris Taft! And Look at how low poorly Villanueva and Bogut scored. The difference in why they may be percieved to be better athletes after their rookie campaigns? They got the chances to get in the open court and show off their abilities, even if they were not the most outstanding athletes! Especially Villanueva.

Also check out the surprising results (To me) of Taft and Sean May!

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18776
Check out last year's Chicago Predraft Combine Results:
Name Bench press Vertical jump Lane Agility ¾-court sprint Overall rank

Channing Frye 19 31" 11.60 3.38 33
Andrew Bogut 13 33½" 12.06 3½1 60
Charlie Villanueva 11 31" 10.86 3.3 42

Chris Taft and Sean May were surprising:
Sean May 12 33" 11.04 3.29 27
Chris Taft 14 33" 11.26 3.27 25


I looked for combine results from some of these other guys, but I could not find any past last year. I am pretty sure that Frye would test right in the same range as many of these star PF's.

I did read an interesting article that pointed out that one guy who tested badly was doing 360 dunks from a step in from the foul line after the combine.

In Draft express they called the article: "But Can He Play?". I think the answer is yes, Frye can play.

***

About Frye as center: He can play some center, but he will always have problems guarding them because that isn't his true position and he will get manhandled by big scrubs like Dampier, rather than lit up by the Dirk's and KG's of the world while doing quite well Vs. The Dampier-level PF's. PF is his natural position. Maybe his more athletic than the guy he is playing, maybe he isn't. But he can play. The other dude has to guard him too and Frye was already one of the better foul-drawing PF's last year.

***

I love healthy theoretical basketball debate.

oohah

I know Bogut can lift plenty, he carried a whole team on his shoulders to sweet16 in 2005.

Mentioning Dirk and Frye in the same breath as far as athletic just tells me your blinded by bias, blind or have never seen Dirk play live. He's a 7 foot guard, plain and simple.

Fish are you really believing that hype you are repeating, or are you exaggerating for effect? In terms of raw athletic ability (Speed and jumping), Nowitzki is not in the class of 98% of the guards in the league (Except for Marcus Williams!). Just start going through the starting PG's and SG's throughout the league and it looks like you are putting together a track team. He will also be behind about 85-90% of the leagues' small forwards, again, we are talking about raw athletic ability.

I think you have Nowitzki confused with David Robinson, who truly could outrun and outjump guards. Tell me how many times do you see Nowitzki flying in to jam it over anyone, even a guard? Do you see him beating Josh Howard, Jason Terry, Stackhouse down the floor? No, he trails for the three or the secondary break.

I am not trying to diminish Nowitzki, he is one of my favorite players ever since he was picked by Nellie and they booed his ass. But what he is is a pretty good athlete for a seven footer in the NBA. Nothing special in terms of raw athletic ability. However, he is extremely agile for a 7 footer, he is a great shooter with no qualifications, and he has exceptional ball handling ability for a 7 footer.

The point is "for a 7 footer". 7 feet and an amazing shooter is what will make him a great, not his running and jumping. That is what allows him to rise up and get his shot on anyone, not that he is some explosive athlete. He can play. He is a skill player, not some overwhelming athletic player like Stoudemire or D. Howard.

But in terms of raw athletic ability? Good, not great, at least by NBA standards.

Somebody get me Nowitzki's combine report!

oohah




[Edited by - oohah on 24-10-2006 01:21 AM]

Mentioning Dirk and Frye in the same breath as far as athletic just tells me your blinded by bias, blind or have never seen Dirk play live. He's a 7 foot guard, plain and simple.

Dirk Nowitzki Rookie Season
98-99 DAL 47 24 20.4 .405 .206 .773 0.9 2.6 3.4 1.0 0.6 0.6 1.55 2.20 8.2

Channing Frye Rookie Season
05-06 NYK 65 14 24.2 .477 .333 .825 2.1 3.6 5.8 0.8 0.5 0.7 1.49 3.10 12.3

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 24-10-2006 07:21 AM]

I've seen Dirk live 5 times. He was just as quick as Houston and Sprewell. He ran off screens and made quick turn around jumpers as fast as those guys.

Jumpers off of screens are a measure of athletic ability? Then Houston was as good an athlete as there was at shooting guard I guess! Adam Morrison must be the best athlete coming out of the draft!

As quick as Sprewell? Now that tells me all I need to know.

Why are you showing me stats? What does that have to do with a guy being more athletic?

You said I was off of my rocker to speak Frye's and Nowitzki's name in the same breath. Frye had a better rookie campaign numbers wise.

By the way, the same knock you have on Frye has been the same knock on Nowitzki all his career. All offense, poor defense: not that strong of a rebounder. Last season, Frye rebounded at about or maybe even a slightly better rate than apparently top 10 athletic guy Nowitzki. As a rookie.

Ever see Dirk play live? Ever see Iverson play live? Ever see Michael Vick play live? Its different than watching them on TV. You see things you dont otherwise see.

I have seen Iverson live more times than I can count. I saw him throw down a reverse alley-oop in traffic against ST. John's. NOw that is an athlete.

So in raw athletic ability (speed and jumping) you are comparing Nowitzki to Iverson and Vick?

Come on dude. Absurdum.

Saying Dirk is just a pretty good athlete for a 7 footer in the NBA tells me all I need to know. Believe what you want

Dirk is a pretty good athlete for a 7 footer, no doubt about it. Dirk is incredibly skilled for a 7 footer, no doubt about it.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 24-10-2006 07:55 AM]

I'm actually a bit bored of all the athleticism these days. You know, the guys who can jump out of the gym yet still needs years to develop a shot or a go to move to fulfill their potential. I'm all for Frye being a solid fundamentals guy who can finish a break, pick and roll/pop, and box out.

I'd forsake his foot speed and hops for a lower center of gravity who can't be moved off the blocks and who out positions his man for rebounds when he can't out jump him.

Frye isn't at the tops for athleticism, but I'm hoping he'll get pretty smart, aware and reliable, and that's much better than a dummy with hops.