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WOW.... QRich wouldnt leave the practice facility until he could fight Marbury last year
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nixluva
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10/5/2006  3:07 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

If Marbs had a hand in helping Gugs become an all-star does that mean he has had a hand in helping most of his teams to losing seasons?
40-42 was a lot better than the TWolves team had ever done. Before Steph 26-56 no All Stars and No Playoffs. With Steph, KG and Gugs improve and become All Stars and make the playoffs. Can you at least give Steph a little credit for that dramatic turnaround? In the Playoffs they lost 3-0 against Houston and the next year they won 45game and they lost 3-2 to Seattle in the playoffs.

If you get credit for the good you have to accept heat for the bad. I just find it funny how you want to give him credit for going from 26-56 to 40-42. That's fair. So why is it unfair when people get on him for going to teams and seeing the record do the opposite? I have no problem with you giving him credit for this. He must have helped them. But it's a little unrealistic to give him credit when his teams do well and then blame his teammates or lack of teammates when things go badly. Am I being unfair? I dont' know. Tell me.

That's a good point. Sure Steph has had his part to play in the team not playing well on D, but on offense, he isn't a detriment to the team playing well. I just wanted to add that Steph isn't the only player that you could say the same things about. My answer is that i've done some research and found that in most cases he lacked the help that a team needs from OTHER players to make a team a winner. He didn't win the games by himself, I said he Helped them to win more games. The other players STILL HAD TO CONTRIBUTE to the team winning.

Do you suppose that he somehow just forgot how to play from one season to the next? His play has been fairly consistent, whereas the players around him haven't always been. Was it Steph's fault that Shandon couldn't hit a shot and often ran from taking shots? How about when TT was stinking it up or QRich? We didn't have any real production from the SF position last year. How about H2O being unable to get healthy? See Steph can set up players but its up to them after that.
When KVH, KT and Doleac were hitting their shots off Steph passes, things went well. The same thing happened during the Streak when Steph played his game and was breaking down the D and setting up is teammates. When they converted the team did well. I expect nothing less this year. I believe these players will do thheir job and I'm completely confident that Steph will do his.



[Edited by - nixluva on 10-05-2006 08:08 AM]
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Bippity10
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10/5/2006  3:50 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Bippity10:

If Marbs had a hand in helping Gugs become an all-star does that mean he has had a hand in helping most of his teams to losing seasons?
40-42 was a lot better than the TWolves team had ever done. Before Steph 26-56 no All Stars and No Playoffs. With Steph, KG and Gugs improve and become All Stars and make the playoffs. Can you at least give Steph a little credit for that dramatic turnaround? In the Playoffs they lost 3-0 against Houston and the next year they won 45game and they lost 3-2 to Seattle in the playoffs.

If you get credit for the good you have to accept heat for the bad. I just find it funny how you want to give him credit for going from 26-56 to 40-42. That's fair. So why is it unfair when people get on him for going to teams and seeing the record do the opposite? I have no problem with you giving him credit for this. He must have helped them. But it's a little unrealistic to give him credit when his teams do well and then blame his teammates or lack of teammates when things go badly. Am I being unfair? I dont' know. Tell me.

That's a good point. Sure Steph has had his part to play in the team not playing well on D, but on offense, he isn't a detriment to the team playing well. I just wanted to add that Steph isn't the only player that you could say the same things about. My answer is that i've done some research and found that in most cases he lacked the help that a team needs from OTHER players to make a team a winner. He didn't win the games by himself, I said he Helped them to win more games. The other players STILL HAD TO CONTRIBUTE to the team winning.

Do you suppose that he somehow just forgot how to play from one season to the next? His play has been fairly consistent, whereas the players around him haven't always been. Was it Steph's fault that Shandon couldn't hit a shot and often ran from taking shots? How about when TT was stinking it up or QRich? We didn't have any real production from the SF position last year. How about H2O being unable to get healthy? See Steph can set up players but its up to them after that.
When KVH, KT and Doleac were hitting their shots off Steph passes, things went well. The same thing happened during the Streak when Steph played his game and was breaking down the D and setting up is teammates. When they converted the team did well. I expect nothing less this year. I believe these players will do thheir job and I'm completely confident that Steph will do his.



[Edited by - nixluva on 10-05-2006 08:08 AM]

This is why he's not a good leader. it's never his fault
I just hope that people will like me
joec32033
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10/5/2006  4:32 PM
Do you suppose that he somehow just forgot how to play from one season to the next?

Well, most people who support Steph seem to think LB somehow forgot how to coach from one season to the next, so I don't think Steph forgetting how to play from one season to the next is totally out of the question.
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BasketballJones
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10/5/2006  4:39 PM
I feel like I've been "Marburied".

Marbury played well during the legendary "win streak" last year, but I get the impression he doesn't look back fondly on it. I get the impression he wants to play "his game", which means getting 20&8 for Marbury whether or not his team wins.

Talking about Marbury is very tricky. He's a talented guy, but I get the impression that he's not too bright. I get the impression that he can be a negative influence on teammates, scowling at them for each mistake. Apparently more than one other player has wanted to take a swing at him for being such a dickhead.

I know - these are all impressions. I don't know the guy - I go by what I see and what I read. I don't solely blame him for the Knicks being such a horrible team these past few years - there's plenty of blame to go around for that - still, he hasn't helped either.

But I'm kinda looking forward to this season too. I'm very interested in seeing how Isiah and Marbury's close relationship might translate into more wins. I'm interested to see if Isiah knows how to get through to Marbury to help him acheive his potential.


[Edited by - basketballjones on 10-05-2006 16:43]
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nixluva
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10/5/2006  4:46 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Bippity10:

If Marbs had a hand in helping Gugs become an all-star does that mean he has had a hand in helping most of his teams to losing seasons?
40-42 was a lot better than the TWolves team had ever done. Before Steph 26-56 no All Stars and No Playoffs. With Steph, KG and Gugs improve and become All Stars and make the playoffs. Can you at least give Steph a little credit for that dramatic turnaround? In the Playoffs they lost 3-0 against Houston and the next year they won 45game and they lost 3-2 to Seattle in the playoffs.

If you get credit for the good you have to accept heat for the bad. I just find it funny how you want to give him credit for going from 26-56 to 40-42. That's fair. So why is it unfair when people get on him for going to teams and seeing the record do the opposite? I have no problem with you giving him credit for this. He must have helped them. But it's a little unrealistic to give him credit when his teams do well and then blame his teammates or lack of teammates when things go badly. Am I being unfair? I dont' know. Tell me.

That's a good point. Sure Steph has had his part to play in the team not playing well on D, but on offense, he isn't a detriment to the team playing well. I just wanted to add that Steph isn't the only player that you could say the same things about. My answer is that i've done some research and found that in most cases he lacked the help that a team needs from OTHER players to make a team a winner. He didn't win the games by himself, I said he Helped them to win more games. The other players STILL HAD TO CONTRIBUTE to the team winning.

Do you suppose that he somehow just forgot how to play from one season to the next? His play has been fairly consistent, whereas the players around him haven't always been. Was it Steph's fault that Shandon couldn't hit a shot and often ran from taking shots? How about when TT was stinking it up or QRich? We didn't have any real production from the SF position last year. How about H2O being unable to get healthy? See Steph can set up players but its up to them after that.
When KVH, KT and Doleac were hitting their shots off Steph passes, things went well. The same thing happened during the Streak when Steph played his game and was breaking down the D and setting up is teammates. When they converted the team did well. I expect nothing less this year. I believe these players will do thheir job and I'm completely confident that Steph will do his.



[Edited by - nixluva on 10-05-2006 08:08 AM]

This is why he's not a good leader. it's never his fault

KG is the leader of his team, do you really believe that he's at fault for the team losing. How about AI or P. Pierce? It's almost NEVER one players fault, just like it wasn't Jordan's fault when his team wasn't winning. Once the players around him were able to do their job effectively the team won games. He was always a great player. The questions on the Cavs aren't about LeBron, but guys like Hughes, being able to step up and help him. When Bird or Magic didn't win it wasn't because they sucked. Since Steph never had any big success its easier for people to see him as the main reason for the losing. But that just means that no one else on the team was good enough to blame.
BlueSeats
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10/5/2006  7:13 PM
Posted by nixluva:
KG is the leader of his team, do you really believe that he's at fault for the team losing. How about AI or P. Pierce? It's almost NEVER one players fault, just like it wasn't Jordan's fault when his team wasn't winning. Once the players around him were able to do their job effectively the team won games. He was always a great player. The questions on the Cavs aren't about LeBron, but guys like Hughes, being able to step up and help him. When Bird or Magic didn't win it wasn't because they sucked. Since Steph never had any big success its easier for people to see him as the main reason for the losing. But that just means that no one else on the team was good enough to blame.

In other words, Steph will be able to win when he's surrounded with so much talent that his is barely needed - think Derek Fisher with the Lakers, or Avery Johnson with the Spurs - in which case his team will trade him for someone more likable (Derek & Avery) and he'll be sent to his then 5th or 6th team, leaving guys like you to wonder, yet again, when he'll get to play on a good team.

nyk4ever
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10/5/2006  7:23 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:


Marbury played well during the legendary "win streak" last year

Great line Jones, you got me cracking up.
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CrushAlot
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10/5/2006  11:05 PM
Does Marbury have a relationship other than work with any of his teammates? We know Q, Jamal and Curry are pals. Last years rookies are very close. My guess is big snacks is a fun guy to hang out with and in the past he was well liked by teammates. Who is Marbury's guy? What former teammate (there are alot of them) is petitioning/campaining to have Marbury on his team to make them better? Marbury is very talented and plays the point. Almost anyone else in the NBA with that description is loved by teammates and desired by other players and teams.
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Nalod
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10/5/2006  11:07 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Bippity10:

If Marbs had a hand in helping Gugs become an all-star does that mean he has had a hand in helping most of his teams to losing seasons?
40-42 was a lot better than the TWolves team had ever done. Before Steph 26-56 no All Stars and No Playoffs. With Steph, KG and Gugs improve and become All Stars and make the playoffs. Can you at least give Steph a little credit for that dramatic turnaround? In the Playoffs they lost 3-0 against Houston and the next year they won 45game and they lost 3-2 to Seattle in the playoffs.

If you get credit for the good you have to accept heat for the bad. I just find it funny how you want to give him credit for going from 26-56 to 40-42. That's fair. So why is it unfair when people get on him for going to teams and seeing the record do the opposite? I have no problem with you giving him credit for this. He must have helped them. But it's a little unrealistic to give him credit when his teams do well and then blame his teammates or lack of teammates when things go badly. Am I being unfair? I dont' know. Tell me.

That's a good point. Sure Steph has had his part to play in the team not playing well on D, but on offense, he isn't a detriment to the team playing well. I just wanted to add that Steph isn't the only player that you could say the same things about. My answer is that i've done some research and found that in most cases he lacked the help that a team needs from OTHER players to make a team a winner. He didn't win the games by himself, I said he Helped them to win more games. The other players STILL HAD TO CONTRIBUTE to the team winning.

Do you suppose that he somehow just forgot how to play from one season to the next? His play has been fairly consistent, whereas the players around him haven't always been. Was it Steph's fault that Shandon couldn't hit a shot and often ran from taking shots? How about when TT was stinking it up or QRich? We didn't have any real production from the SF position last year. How about H2O being unable to get healthy? See Steph can set up players but its up to them after that.
When KVH, KT and Doleac were hitting their shots off Steph passes, things went well. The same thing happened during the Streak when Steph played his game and was breaking down the D and setting up is teammates. When they converted the team did well. I expect nothing less this year. I believe these players will do thheir job and I'm completely confident that Steph will do his.



[Edited by - nixluva on 10-05-2006 08:08 AM]

This is why he's not a good leader. it's never his fault

KG is the leader of his team, do you really believe that he's at fault for the team losing. How about AI or P. Pierce? It's almost NEVER one players fault, just like it wasn't Jordan's fault when his team wasn't winning. Once the players around him were able to do their job effectively the team won games. He was always a great player. The questions on the Cavs aren't about LeBron, but guys like Hughes, being able to step up and help him. When Bird or Magic didn't win it wasn't because they sucked. Since Steph never had any big success its easier for people to see him as the main reason for the losing. But that just means that no one else on the team was good enough to blame.


What if Magic and Bird helped those guys be better? What if they took a good team and their leadership and level of play elevated the rest of the team. Jordan was not Jordan until he learned to trust his teammates and use them properly. Jordan was Dominique wilkens type player. Jordan lead also by playing tough defense. Those guys dove for balls, and went in for rebounds. Iverson is a tough player. He inspires.

Steph does not do these things. He brings his teams down. Its not soley his fault they suck, but he does not help. He has done nothing to support ANY of the 3 knick coaches he has had.

He is not liked ANYWHERE he has played before. They don't even like him in atlanta after he showed them up. His teammates could not stand him there and he said after he left he "played" Georgia Tech!

I can get up on this team except for Marbury. I admire his talent, like watching him do his thing but this dude does not respond to pressure. Him being a captain is a mockery of the honor.
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10/6/2006  12:20 AM
Marbs as Captain is a slap in the face to previous Knicks captains like Willis Reed. Isiah has done a lot wrong but that is the most offensive. If the team voted I have nbo doubt it would have been Jcraw.
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
nyk4ever
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10/6/2006  12:23 AM
Posted by SugarRayRichardson:

Marbs as Captain is a slap in the face to previous Knicks captains like Willis Reed. Isiah has done a lot wrong but that is the most offensive. If the team voted I have nbo doubt it would have been Jcraw.

I agree 100%
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Killa4luv
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10/6/2006  9:56 AM
Posted by CrushAlot:

Does Marbury have a relationship other than work with any of his teammates? We know Q, Jamal and Curry are pals. Last years rookies are very close. My guess is big snacks is a fun guy to hang out with and in the past he was well liked by teammates. Who is Marbury's guy? What former teammate (there are alot of them) is petitioning/campaining to have Marbury on his team to make them better? Marbury is very talented and plays the point. Almost anyone else in the NBA with that description is loved by teammates and desired by other players and teams.

you might have heard of a guy named Kevin Garnett.
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10/6/2006  10:06 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by CrushAlot:

Does Marbury have a relationship other than work with any of his teammates? We know Q, Jamal and Curry are pals. Last years rookies are very close. My guess is big snacks is a fun guy to hang out with and in the past he was well liked by teammates. Who is Marbury's guy? What former teammate (there are alot of them) is petitioning/campaining to have Marbury on his team to make them better? Marbury is very talented and plays the point. Almost anyone else in the NBA with that description is loved by teammates and desired by other players and teams.

you might have heard of a guy named Kevin Garnett.

You can't go by stuff like that though. I'm sure perhaps you know that Garnett also demanded to have Sprewell on his team. He got Sprewell for one real good year, but after that, he was finished.

Just b/c Garnett wants Marbury doesn't mean it WILL work out.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
nyk4ever
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10/6/2006  11:19 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by CrushAlot:

Does Marbury have a relationship other than work with any of his teammates? We know Q, Jamal and Curry are pals. Last years rookies are very close. My guess is big snacks is a fun guy to hang out with and in the past he was well liked by teammates. Who is Marbury's guy? What former teammate (there are alot of them) is petitioning/campaining to have Marbury on his team to make them better? Marbury is very talented and plays the point. Almost anyone else in the NBA with that description is loved by teammates and desired by other players and teams.

you might have heard of a guy named Kevin Garnett.

You can't go by stuff like that though. I'm sure perhaps you know that Garnett also demanded to have Sprewell on his team. He got Sprewell for one real good year, but after that, he was finished.

Just b/c Garnett wants Marbury doesn't mean it WILL work out.

See Jason Kidd demanding to have Alonzo Mourning.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
newyorknewyork
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10/6/2006  2:37 PM
The root of Marburys trouble is as simple as this, he doesn't take over and win games. He deosn't take come big in the clutch. If he did those things then EVERYTHING would fall into place.

Proof is the yr in Pheniox when they overachieved and won 44games and pushed the spurs in the first rd. He had the same personality then he has now. The only only difference is he took over games, and he came up big in the clutch the whole yr. Those close games that playoff teams win and lottery teams lose. Marbury was somehow taking over and winning them.

So Marbury could be the same ****y, scowling, person he has allways been, but as long as he deos those things above he can get away with it. He can't be that way and not come up big. And since I doubt he turns into mr Rodgers thats his best bet to turn things around for him.
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BlueSeats
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10/6/2006  4:30 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

The root of Marburys trouble is as simple as this, he doesn't take over and win games. He deosn't take come big in the clutch. If he did those things then EVERYTHING would fall into place.

Proof is the yr in Pheniox when they overachieved and won 44games and pushed the spurs in the first rd.


Sorta, but not really. The Suns are the case in point. Shortly after those clutch heroics the chemistry of the team still went south and they still dumped him for "flexibility."

From what I've observed from him, the better his on-court performance gets the c0ckier he gets, and the more likely he is to alienate his teammates. The same is also true when things are bad. Maybe there's some sort of sweet spot, around 39 wins, where he's not on a ****y high, nor a surly low, but I doubt it.
WOW.... QRich wouldnt leave the practice facility until he could fight Marbury last year

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