Posted by Marv:

i think larry wins this one. if dolan wanted a deal he should have negotiated it instead of firing him. dolan really is one stupid ass motherf**king putz. there really is no other way of describing this guy.

Dolan TRIED to get LB to take a buyout, but he wants all his money and more.

NYK4ever, with regard to LB wanting to rebuild this team...OH PLEASE! If he was trying to rebuild he would've played the kids from the get go. He wouldn't have had Lee on the inactive list. If this year was about figuring things out and not trying to win at all. Then why was he whining about players he wanted to send out of here for older guys. He wanted MORE VETS! Don't try to make it seem like LB was simply looking to tear this down and start over.

Remember how he used the changeover in the roster from TT, Sweetney and KT as an excuse. He said he came in expecting a more "veteran" roster and didn't expect to play the kids so much. Lb was looking to bring in guys like Lynch and Eric Snow. Its why he kept using the older guys despite how poorly they played.

haha

I hope Brown gets Dolan for his contract, and than some defamation money! Cmon now, Dolan thought he can cheat a jew out of his money? Nigga please! As a jew I'm offendeing.

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by Marv:

i think larry wins this one. if dolan wanted a deal he should have negotiated it instead of firing him. dolan really is one stupid ass motherf**king putz. there really is no other way of describing this guy.

Dolan TRIED to get LB to take a buyout, but he wants all his money and more.

NYK4ever, with regard to LB wanting to rebuild this team...OH PLEASE! If he was trying to rebuild he would've played the kids from the get go. He wouldn't have had Lee on the inactive list. If this year was about figuring things out and not trying to win at all. Then why was he whining about players he wanted to send out of here for older guys. He wanted MORE VETS! Don't try to make it seem like LB was simply looking to tear this down and start over.

Remember how he used the changeover in the roster from TT, Sweetney and KT as an excuse. He said he came in expecting a more "veteran" roster and didn't expect to play the kids so much. Lb was looking to bring in guys like Lynch and Eric Snow. Its why he kept using the older guys despite how poorly they played.

Since you didn't respond to it, I'll post it again.

The Knicks hired Larry for 5 years, obviously this is a sign to Larry, that the team is giving him 5 years to institute his methods and the way he does things and by the time 5 years is up, they make a decision on whether or not they like the direction, he's taken them. This is EXACTLY what he'd done at every stop he's been at, if the Dolan, Mills and Isiah didn't know this than they are absolutely stupid. Firing him after Year 1 is absolutely rediciulous when he's trying to figure out what players he wants on this team and what players he doesn't. As I've said before, say whatever you want about that, but thats what he's done wherever he's coached and the Knicks should not have expected him to change that just becuase now he's coaching the Knicks. Prior to last year the team did nothing under Isiah Thomas, change and a person with a different direction was necessary, so they gave it to Brown, a coach who does things his way and as I've said before, if the Knicks didn't do this then they are absolutely STUIPID.

So you can't conclude someone's a failure not worth keeping after year 1? Does that mean we can't get rid of Francis?!

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by wsdm:

So you can't conclude someone's a failure not worth keeping after year 1? Does that mean we can't get rid of Francis?!

Brown has had success his whole career. When has Francis or any Knick besides Malik Rose had success?

That's a separate--more understandable--argument. You were saying he got a five year deal and thus shouldn't be fired after year 1 no matter how disasterous he was in year 1.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by wsdm:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by wsdm:

So you can't conclude someone's a failure not worth keeping after year 1? Does that mean we can't get rid of Francis?!

Brown has had success his whole career. When has Francis or any Knick besides Malik Rose had success?

That's a separate--more understandable--argument. You were saying he got a five year deal and thus shouldn't be fired after year 1 no matter how disasterous he was in year 1.

It's not seperate when he's had a history of success and a history of his first year being crappy with a new team. Francis has been terrible everywhere.

Oohah's shown pretty clearly that that is not the case

man, i have a bad feeling that this will drag into the year, messing up the knicks season, as much as i hate how this team is presently constructed, it still isnt going to diminish my excitement for the new basketball year to arrive....

Thus, i hate larry brown, i hate dolan, i hate thomas and i hate the present state of the knicks....but i will forever be a knick fan

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by Marv:

i think larry wins this one. if dolan wanted a deal he should have negotiated it instead of firing him. dolan really is one stupid ass motherf**king putz. there really is no other way of describing this guy.

Dolan TRIED to get LB to take a buyout, but he wants all his money and more.

NYK4ever, with regard to LB wanting to rebuild this team...OH PLEASE! If he was trying to rebuild he would've played the kids from the get go. He wouldn't have had Lee on the inactive list. If this year was about figuring things out and not trying to win at all. Then why was he whining about players he wanted to send out of here for older guys. He wanted MORE VETS! Don't try to make it seem like LB was simply looking to tear this down and start over.

Remember how he used the changeover in the roster from TT, Sweetney and KT as an excuse. He said he came in expecting a more "veteran" roster and didn't expect to play the kids so much. Lb was looking to bring in guys like Lynch and Eric Snow. Its why he kept using the older guys despite how poorly they played.

Since you didn't respond to it, I'll post it again.

The Knicks hired Larry for 5 years, obviously this is a sign to Larry, that the team is giving him 5 years to institute his methods and the way he does things and by the time 5 years is up, they make a decision on whether or not they like the direction, he's taken them. This is EXACTLY what he'd done at every stop he's been at, if the Dolan, Mills and Isiah didn't know this than they are absolutely stupid. Firing him after Year 1 is absolutely rediciulous when he's trying to figure out what players he wants on this team and what players he doesn't. As I've said before, say whatever you want about that, but thats what he's done wherever he's coached and the Knicks should not have expected him to change that just becuase now he's coaching the Knicks. Prior to last year the team did nothing under Isiah Thomas, change and a person with a different direction was necessary, so they gave it to Brown, a coach who does things his way and as I've said before, if the Knicks didn't do this then they are absolutely STUIPID.

What are you BLIND? I did respond to your premise. For one thing LB himself made the statements about wanting more Vets and he's the one who was playing the Vets even when they didn't deserve to play ahead of the younger players. It wasn't LB's call to decide that the team needed to be embarrassed in order to show that they were flawed and thus needed to be totally changed out. He is a COACH. He had a GREAT opportunity to teach our young players how to win, but he didn't do that. He was too busy trying to be the GM. No matter how much he may have wanted that power, he wasn't given that here. Some input yes, but there were limits. His bosses explained that to him but he didn't like that, so he went behind their backs.

LOOK its clear that LB didn't try to win games. Its clear that he disobeyed orders. Its clear that he NEVER tried to win the confidence of his players. They KNEW he didn't like them and he never gave them a reason to feel otherwise. He coached like the games didn't matter. That has NEVER been part of his history. Don't even try to make it seem like that is a great way to do business. Sure he's acted up over his career and shown many of the same bad tendencies, but this year he took his antics to a NEW LEVEL!!!! That's why he got canned.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by nixluva:

The difference in my opinion is that LB wasn't trying to win. I never felt that Francis wasn't trying to fit in, he was at a disadvantage coming into a broken situation in which the team never develped any kind of cohesion. The reason for the lack of cohesion can be directly traced to LB's use of the roster. Steph clearly wasn't happy, but don't forget that he was injured fighting thru a pick and he tried to come back and help the team even tho he was in severe pain. LB pretty much begged off in training camp!!!

What are you talking about, this is all nonsense. Why is Steph allowed to be unhappy and not play basketball up to his capabilities just becuase he doesnt want too? How do you condone this? I don't care if your being coached by Satan himself if your making 20 million dollars a year to play basketball. You go out there and you play and make players around you better. Clearly Steph isn't and never will be cut out to do this.

You can try to blame Steph all you want, but you try to win games when your coach puts QRich, Malik & AD on the floor with you to start games and then he expects you to just pass the ball to these guys and stand at the top of the key watching them brick shots. One game againt LA, he had QRich, Ariza, AD and Curry start with Steph. 3 of those guys aren't offensive threats at all. The next game he had Steph, Jamal, Malik, AD and Curry. Now we know injuries also played a part in all this too, but aside from that, there never was a set rotation that the team had established. Remember that we had 8 new players and some level of consistency was going to be needed to help these players develop some chemistry together.

Well lets not forget something, who is the one that brought guys like AD, Malik, QRich to this team to begin with? Oh yeah, your God Isiah did that. These guys have to play when your GM is trying to show the world that he didn't get hosed on trades for these players, which is exactly what Brown did. Also, as I've said before, Steph is being paid greatly to play basketball in the NBA, it shouldn't matter if he's playing with a bunch of 8th graders, he should be out there doing his best to win ball games instead of being the primadona that he is.

Dec, 2nd against Detroit, LB had Steph, QRich, Malik, MO and AD in the Starting lineup. Steph had 11pts & 11 asts, QRich 7, Malik 2, Mo 6 and AD 8. Meanwhile off the bench Jamal had 22 and Frye had 21. Lee got in the game for 6 seconds. LB had the most control over what this team could do, since he was the one making the roster decisions. QRich, Malik and Mo didn't deserve to be out there to start games and AD was too old and best used off the bench. How can you ever side with LB in this issue? He doesn't deserve what he's asking for. He was deliberately breaking team policy and wrecking this teams chances of having any kind of success.

You guys obssess over who starts and who doesn't. The only thing that matters is who plays the most amount of minutes. This game that you mention, Frye played 32 minutes, Crawford played 33minutes. How is this deliberately breaking team policy? Deliberately breaking team policy would be not playing any of the good players on purpose at all. ZERO minutes. Who cares who starts, all that matters is who plays the most minutes and clearly here, Frye, Jamal, Marbury played the most minutes. Again, you can thank your GM for acquiring guys like Malik, Mo, Jerome James, AD(all who play the same position as Frye and Lee, by the way.) You really think Isiah Thomas would allow Brown to sit all these guys on the bench and never play after he made trades for these players? If you think so your crazy. IT is a proud man, too proud and it got the best of the Knicks last year and prior years since he's been here.


[Edited by - nyk4ever on 09-23-2006 4:34 PM]

Sorry for jumping in.
You are talking about a team of:
JJ, , JR, Francys, Mo, Devis, Roze - who sucks big time
Fry, nate, lee, Butler, Q2 - who wery young
Marbs, Curry, QRoch - who hurt most of the season
Craf - who is the only one OK player

How this group can win anything? 23 wins is a miracle.
LB is a great couch. I dont think IT will have more that 18 wins.

Posted by nixluva:


What are you BLIND? I did respond to your premise. For one thing LB himself made the statements about wanting more Vets and he's the one who was playing the Vets even when they didn't deserve to play ahead of the younger players. It wasn't LB's call to decide that the team needed to be embarrassed in order to show that they were flawed and thus needed to be totally changed out. He is a COACH. He had a GREAT opportunity to teach our young players how to win, but he didn't do that. He was too busy trying to be the GM. No matter how much he may have wanted that power, he wasn't given that here. Some input yes, but there were limits. His bosses explained that to him but he didn't like that, so he went behind their backs.

LOOK its clear that LB didn't try to win games. Its clear that he disobeyed orders. Its clear that he NEVER tried to win the confidence of his players. They KNEW he didn't like them and he never gave them a reason to feel otherwise. He coached like the games didn't matter. That has NEVER been part of his history. Don't even try to make it seem like that is a great way to do business. Sure he's acted up over his career and shown many of the same bad tendencies, but this year he took his antics to a NEW LEVEL!!!! That's why he got canned.

Ahh the kool-aid and the BS meter are running awfully high.

Drink up boys, theres a new leader in town.

Posted by wsdm:

Posted by Solace:

Posted by arkrud:

53 or 25 Mils for dolan and Cablevision is same as 25 or 53 cents for me.

Wow, don't ever go into business, with that attitude.

He's right, though. If it wasn't personal, they wouldn't waste all the time and effort (and negative publicity) on what's a tiny amount of money by their standards

You shouldn't go into business either, if you think $28 million is a "tiny amount of money" for any entity. I seriously hope you're intentionally overexaggerating, because otherwise it just sounds foolish.