Posted by TheGame:

I agree. As was said in another post, this team's defense will improve with the improvement in the offense. If the team cuts down on the turnovers, there will be fewer fast break opportunities for the opposing team and the team can get back and setup its defense. Plus, I think players like Lee, Frye, and Nate (who weree rookies last year and just learning how to play team defense at the NBA level) will be better defensive players this year.

Posted by rvhoss:

Turnovers reflect directly on the coach.
The coach prepares the team in practice to not turn the ball over and to make the right decisions.

I say bring back LB if Zeke bombs out...right now, I see it as either LB or Zeke are right.

Currently, I'm siding with Zeke, however, if he bombs, then Larry was right.

Posted by arkrud:

Posted by TheGame:

I agree. As was said in another post, this team's defense will improve with the improvement in the offense. If the team cuts down on the turnovers, there will be fewer fast break opportunities for the opposing team and the team can get back and setup its defense. Plus, I think players like Lee, Frye, and Nate (who weree rookies last year and just learning how to play team defense at the NBA level) will be better defensive players this year.

Tunovers are a result of bad decision making. And this is nothing the couch can do about it. You need at least 2-3 intelegent players on the team. We have a set of athletic but not so bright guys (and some of them just plain idiots). Our young players are defenetely better in this respect. They need experience to show it.
My only problem is if this organization can accept to have players who are smarter that GM/Couch/Operations. If one want to hide his stuppidity he usually keeps even bigger idiots around...

The difference of having turnovers and not having them as much is a matter of good ball handlers. We got a guy who is 6'-11" who can dribble and Collins is supposed to be a very good ball handler also. So there are signs of good ball handling and some defense coming onto this team. Our offense is not in question. It's our defense and the turnovers that have a lot to do with that. I still think we need a solid center and these are reasons why I thought of Jeff Van Gundy back on our team. He seems to have a good balance for defense, offense not to mention respect from players. That's a sign of a good balanced coach. But who knows, we'll also see if Zeke can come through here. Just keeping in mind though in case it doesn't work. I think it's important to have the right coach for this team, especially since they're so young. So train them to they're strengths while they're young.

Posted by Bippity10:

turnovers
Stephon Marbury career 3.15 last year 2.62(lowest in career)
Stevie Francis career 3.67 last year 3.06
Quentin Richardsoncareer 1.27 last year 1.02
Mo Taylor career 1.85 last year 1.54
Malik rose career 1.39 last year 1.11
Eddie Curry career 2.01 last year 2.49
Jamal Crawford career 1.95 last year 2.22
Jalen Rose career 1.60 last year 1.92

For the Group Career 16.89 last year 15.98(this group actually committed less turnovers than their career averages)


Five of our top 8 actually had a good year in terms of turnovers when you compare it to the rest of their carers. Stephon Marbury had a career best for turnovers. Stevie Francis cut his turnovers down significantly which followed a trend from the year before LB. Eddie Curry's jumped up from his career average but was actually lower than the season before in a Chicago uniform where he averaged 2.59 turnovers. Pretty much everyone else was right in line with their career averages with no significant dropoffs or rise in turnovers. Add in Frye, Lee and Robinson(rookies) and QWoods(like a rookie) and you have a team that did what it was supposed to do.

Now I know most people hate LB so much they have to blame him for everything. And anything that contradicts this opinion must mean that you want to bear his children. But reality is reality. We had a turnover prone team, added some rookies, slapped them together in a short period of time and then expected a coach to somehow magically make it all work in one year. In NY we blame the coach because that's easy. But the true evidence doesn't lie. If we want to lower the turnovers it will take the players taking it upon themselves just like in eveyr other sport to respect the ball, the game and understand the importance of not turning it over. The guys I mentioned above have 5-12 years experience. You can't blame these career numbers on LB. It's the players. They need to fix it. Excuses are over!!!!!!!!!


[Edited by - bippity10 on 09-12-2006 4:23 PM]

[Edited by - bippity10 on 09-12-2006 4:24 PM]

[Edited by - bippity10 on 09-12-2006 4:29 PM]

Posted by nixluva:

LB exposed the weaknesses, but really that wasn't his job. We already knew that many of our players weren't that good with the ball. He could very well have made that point clear in just a few games and got the point across to Isiah. Then he could just as easily have changed the focus of the offense so that this weakness wasn't as pronounced. He NEVER adjusted to the players he had and that's just not what a coach is supposed to do. We saw just how much better the team could play if they made such a change, albeit without the coaches blessing. Still we saw for a brief time that these players are capable of a much higher level if given a real chance. The thing is that LB didn't like the team one bit and his agenda was to force ownership to make big changes. That's not what he was being paid for. His job was to coach the team he had in front of him and that included teaching the young players and getting them ready for a bigger role. In time the changes would be made but when the GM and Owner decided, not when the coach felt they must be made. LB overstepped his bounds and KILLED this team last year due to his lack of patience and good sense.

I think more often than not we'll see more solid team play this year. Sure we'll have ups and downs. This isn't a unit that has been together under the same system for years, but given time I believe that we'll see this team grow into a contender. The 1st steps will come this season.

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by oohah:

Posted by nixluva:

LB exposed the weaknesses, but really that wasn't his job. We already knew that many of our players weren't that good with the ball. He could very well have made that point clear in just a few games and got the point across to Isiah. Then he could just as easily have changed the focus of the offense so that this weakness wasn't as pronounced. He NEVER adjusted to the players he had and that's just not what a coach is supposed to do. We saw just how much better the team could play if they made such a change, albeit without the coaches blessing. Still we saw for a brief time that these players are capable of a much higher level if given a real chance. The thing is that LB didn't like the team one bit and his agenda was to force ownership to make big changes. That's not what he was being paid for. His job was to coach the team he had in front of him and that included teaching the young players and getting them ready for a bigger role. In time the changes would be made but when the GM and Owner decided, not when the coach felt they must be made. LB overstepped his bounds and KILLED this team last year due to his lack of patience and good sense.

I think more often than not we'll see more solid team play this year. Sure we'll have ups and downs. This isn't a unit that has been together under the same system for years, but given time I believe that we'll see this team grow into a contender. The 1st steps will come this season.

Nixluva, I have made this exact same arguments throughout the past season and off-season a couple of dozen times at least.

Some guys will just not accept that LB put on one of the worst coaching performances ever in any sport, and did absolutely zilch to create future success. It is a waste of time, seriously.

But very well put.

oohah

YEAH I know it can seem fruitless at times to keep preaching the same message only to have it bounce off some peoples heads. The thing is that no matter what they say, NOTHING can absolve LB from blame in what happened this year. NO ONE truly believes this team couldn't play better if LB really wanted to coach this team. So now he doesn't get the chance and that's his own fault.

I hope Isiah flat out embarrasses LB by winning this year. I hope we make it to the playoffs and actually do well in the 1st rd. I hope Isiah is a coach of the year candidate, so we can finally shut up these negative voices who want him gone. I hope Steph and Francis tear up the league this year and become one of the top Backcourt tandems in the league. I hope Curry throws it down on peoples heads like it was going out of style. The season is getting closer and I can't wait.

oohah

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by oohah:

Posted by nixluva:

LB exposed the weaknesses, but really that wasn't his job. We already knew that many of our players weren't that good with the ball. He could very well have made that point clear in just a few games and got the point across to Isiah. Then he could just as easily have changed the focus of the offense so that this weakness wasn't as pronounced. He NEVER adjusted to the players he had and that's just not what a coach is supposed to do. We saw just how much better the team could play if they made such a change, albeit without the coaches blessing. Still we saw for a brief time that these players are capable of a much higher level if given a real chance. The thing is that LB didn't like the team one bit and his agenda was to force ownership to make big changes. That's not what he was being paid for. His job was to coach the team he had in front of him and that included teaching the young players and getting them ready for a bigger role. In time the changes would be made but when the GM and Owner decided, not when the coach felt they must be made. LB overstepped his bounds and KILLED this team last year due to his lack of patience and good sense.

I think more often than not we'll see more solid team play this year. Sure we'll have ups and downs. This isn't a unit that has been together under the same system for years, but given time I believe that we'll see this team grow into a contender. The 1st steps will come this season.

Nixluva, I have made this exact same arguments throughout the past season and off-season a couple of dozen times at least.

Some guys will just not accept that LB put on one of the worst coaching performances ever in any sport, and did absolutely zilch to create future success. It is a waste of time, seriously.

But very well put.

oohah

YEAH I know it can seem fruitless at times to keep preaching the same message only to have it bounce off some peoples heads. The thing is that no matter what they say, NOTHING can absolve LB from blame in what happened this year. NO ONE truly believes this team couldn't play better if LB really wanted to coach this team. So now he doesn't get the chance and that's his own fault.

I hope Isiah flat out embarrasses LB by winning this year. I hope we make it to the playoffs and actually do well in the 1st rd. I hope Isiah is a coach of the year candidate, so we can finally shut up these negative voices who want him gone. I hope Steph and Francis tear up the league this year and become one of the top Backcourt tandems in the league. I hope Curry throws it down on peoples heads like it was going out of style. The season is getting closer and I can't wait.

You sound slightly negative there yourself buddy. Go ahead, bounce a few more words off of my head!

Posted by Bippity10:

turnovers
Stephon Marbury career 3.15 last year 2.62(lowest in career)
Stevie Francis career 3.67 last year 3.06
Quentin Richardsoncareer 1.27 last year 1.02
Mo Taylor career 1.85 last year 1.54
Malik rose career 1.39 last year 1.11
Eddie Curry career 2.01 last year 2.49
Jamal Crawford career 1.95 last year 2.22
Jalen Rose career 1.60 last year 1.92

For the Group Career 16.89 last year 15.98(this group actually committed less turnovers than their career averages)


Five of our top 8 actually had a good year in terms of turnovers when you compare it to the rest of their carers. Stephon Marbury had a career best for turnovers. Stevie Francis cut his turnovers down significantly which followed a trend from the year before LB. Eddie Curry's jumped up from his career average but was actually lower than the season before in a Chicago uniform where he averaged 2.59 turnovers. Pretty much everyone else was right in line with their career averages with no significant dropoffs or rise in turnovers. Add in Frye, Lee and Robinson(rookies) and QWoods(like a rookie) and you have a team that did what it was supposed to do.

Now I know most people hate LB so much they have to blame him for everything. And anything that contradicts this opinion must mean that you want to bear his children. But reality is reality. We had a turnover prone team, added some rookies, slapped them together in a short period of time and then expected a coach to somehow magically make it all work in one year. In NY we blame the coach because that's easy. But the true evidence doesn't lie. If we want to lower the turnovers it will take the players taking it upon themselves just like in eveyr other sport to respect the ball, the game and understand the importance of not turning it over. The guys I mentioned above have 5-12 years experience. You can't blame these career numbers on LB. It's the players. They need to fix it. Excuses are over!!!!!!!!!


[Edited by - bippity10 on 09-12-2006 4:23 PM]

[Edited by - bippity10 on 09-12-2006 4:24 PM]

[Edited by - bippity10 on 09-12-2006 4:29 PM]

Posted by rvhoss:

I did not post that post to defend Marbury. It's just the fixation on Marbury by the haters that means that any post that does not trash him is a positive post for him. Honestly there is one group of close minded people on this site they just can't see it.

The post was meant to illustrate that we had a team that was turnover proned before and after FLB's arrival. Add in LB's roster merry-go-round, the rookies, the new system, the unwillingness to buy into the new system, the unwillingness to play as a team and the new roster led to it. Now once again that sentence is very logical and puts blame on everyone. But somehow the openminded folks on this site will say I'm defending Marbury and will then blame Marbury for all of it and then say I'm close minded. I repeat "weirdest board ever".

Enough blame. I want players that are willing to take personal responsibility and fix their own flaws instead of demanding a coach fix their flaws. Anyone that's played any sport on any level would want the same thing.



[Edited by - rvhoss on 09-13-2006 10:21 AM]