Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by arkrud:

Going back to Francis amd Marbary. Their good numbers and All-Star yerars was coming when thay was playing in a systems which was using their scoring and slashing abilities. And mostly because it was no other scoring choises on the rosters.
It was also a result of the athletic abilities of both guards. They was young and strong.
All this is not the case any more. They are older and not so healthy.
And the Knicks is not a team of suporting role players but all the way around.

They will probably reestablich their game but it will be on some other clubs who need them... to not suck badly...
The best thing for Francis and Marbs is to be traded to the team where they will play the way they accoustomed to play

I have to shake my head when I read stuff like this. Even at this stage in his career, Steph is still too much for any defender. He may not have the exact same hops he once had, but he's still explosive. Heck Steve Nash is older than Steph and Francis and he's still movin. Francis may have lost just a tad of his athleticism, but he's still able to throw it down with no problem.

You also don't seem to understand how they'll be used in this offense. They'll actually be getting help from their bigs to get open and force teams to switch. Once that happens they will easily be able to get by a bigger slower defender. Screens and cuts are a big part of this offense and really we haven't made use of them to the degree that other teams have against us. Rather than go away from Steph and Francis being big scorers for this team, Isiah will likely make use of their scoring ability as well as our other guards. Our bigs will be able to feed off of that for much easier baskets.

I still don't understand how you overlook the fact that the only times that Marbury and Francis have been successful in their careers is when the ball has CONSTANTLY been in their hands. In a motion offense, it is going to require Steph and Francis to totally change the way they've played in the past and both times they've tried doing that before they have failed (see phoenix trading Marbury.) The fact that you will not take in opinions other than your own is a bit disturbing. You still don't seem to understand the fact that we're all hear to make predictions and thats what we're doing. Your arguing with people on what THEY think will happen. This leads nowhere.

When did steph play in THIS offense? I really don't recall any extended time playing this style of offense. If you're referring to the time he spent in PHX with coach Mike D'Antoni, i'm afraid you're mistaken. He only played under D'Antoni for less than a month and that was without Amare.

Besides the only thing that's gonna change is that they'll be giving the ball up sooner, but then you leave out the part where they are the primary option in most of thhe plays.

Triangle - Steph passes to Jared and then either makes an outside cut or an inside cut to the corner depending on whether the defender trails or overplays the cut. At this point Jared can make a pass depending upon what the defenders do. If the defender stays with Curry Steph goes baseline. If the defender steps over to close off the lane then Curry can spin to the hole for a layup of alleyoop. If Jared decides to swing the ball to the weakside then Francis has a two man game with Frye setting the screen. In any event these are things our guards are MORE than capable of doing. What part of that is too hard for Steph or Francis to execute? Its basically a fancy pick and roll offense, with great floor spacing. The thing about our team is that you really can't leave anyone to double, since we have serious threats to blow right by a defender who takes his attention away from our guards. Frye is perfect in a 2 man games since he has such a good jumper.

Even in the UCLA offense you have those high post screens, with no low post and our guards will have plenty of room to explode to the basket, which is EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE GREAT AT! You're gonna have to get specific as to why our players can't run this.

Posted by martin:

why so much posting about the Knicks' offense? It's the D and rebounding that will kill the team. I am of the opinion that the greatest improvement the Knicks will have over last year will be on the offensive end of things, but I am not sure if long term that would solve anything outside of padding the win total to a point where they level off at .500 year after year.

Posted by BlueSeats:

oohah's trying to get people to hang their asses out there so I'll weigh in.

I'm not in it for the record. I want a reason to believe that major attitudinal problems are behind us. That we have no reason to live in fear of an entire half or full season going down the drain because of a divided locker room or players holding the team hostage.

Then I look for effort. I want to see guys playing hard every night. I wont mind poor defenders and botched rotations if those same guys are getting floor burns and rebounds.

I want to see dignity under pressure. I'm sick of us going down 20 points in the first quarter, or opening every second-half flat, or cats moping under towels and finger pointing, or us unable to hold 20 point leads.

I don't want anyone on the team too "stiff" to come in if they get too few minutes. I expect complaints about minutes, that's healthy competitive fire and everyday life in the NBA. What I don't expect is pity parties and sabotaged efforts as a means to force a coaches hand.

I want to see our Frye and Curry demonstrate they can play together. This means an ability to combine for average frontcourt defense when on the floor together.

I want to see some form of veteran leadership in close games. be it a momentous stop, shrewd clock management, a sweet feed for an easy bucket or any kind of an emotional lift. I'm tired of predicting how we'll lose every close game, be it the other team's quick guard killing us on the perimeter or one of ours forgetting to call time-out, or dribbling it off his foot, or getting a timeline or backcourt violation. We need coolness under pressure.

I'm gonna stop now, though I could go on forever. I think the major point is we need to see a drastic reduction in selfishness, we need to see a drastic improvement in togetherness, and we need to see signs of significant player evolution and development.

One of the things I liked about Isiah in Indy was his purported development of guys like Foster, O'Neal, Artest and Tinsley. But here we've seen none of that. You can blame it on roster churning, bad chemistry, hiring inappropriate coaches, whatever, but this has been Isiah' watch and he's talked numerous times about us improving ourselves internally and I've yet to see it so far.

Marbury, TT, Baker, James, etc are all guys who were supposed to benefit under Isiah and I've yet to see it. You could make a case for Crawford but I credit Jamal himself for it. Every year his role is turned upside down and I don't know if he even knows what his role or position will be this year. He may improve again, or he may be the one to crack and revolt. Curry showed me nothing in terms of development last year. Ditto Frye and Lee. best I could tell they left the same players they came in.

Now I know it was only one year for those guys and we can put whatever blame we want on Larry Brown, but it's still on Isiah's watch and it's imperative they do develop. This year we are speaking in terms of mediocrity, but my passion for this team is not to support mediocrity, it's to despise it. We need to see indications that we have two or three players on track to be foundations, leaders, and all-stars for this team. Otherwise what is our direction really all about?

It was Larry's job to steady Steph, to develop the kids, and to make Curry and all-star, and now it's Isiah's. These are the things he must do. If we see heart. camaraderie, leadership, effort, maturity, and development I'll be happy, and as an aside, I'd expect at least a mediocre record (38-44 wins) to show for it.

Posted by Bippity10:
I would shout plagiarism but nobody would beleive me because you write better. But this is exactly to a tee how I feel. I would not change one word. Except I might dumb down the english a little bit.

Posted by BlueSeats:

oohah's trying to get people to hang their asses out there so I'll weigh in.

I'm not in it for the record. I want a reason to believe that major attitudinal problems are behind us. That we have no reason to live in fear of an entire half or full season going down the drain because of a divided locker room or players holding the team hostage.

Then I look for effort. I want to see guys playing hard every night. I wont mind poor defenders and botched rotations if those same guys are getting floor burns and rebounds.

I want to see dignity under pressure. I'm sick of us going down 20 points in the first quarter, or opening every second-half flat, or cats moping under towels and finger pointing, or us unable to hold 20 point leads.

I don't want anyone on the team too "stiff" to come in if they get too few minutes. I expect complaints about minutes, that's healthy competitive fire and everyday life in the NBA. What I don't expect is pity parties and sabotaged efforts as a means to force a coaches hand.

I want to see our Frye and Curry demonstrate they can play together. This means an ability to combine for average frontcourt defense when on the floor together.

I want to see some form of veteran leadership in close games. be it a momentous stop, shrewd clock management, a sweet feed for an easy bucket or any kind of an emotional lift. I'm tired of predicting how we'll lose every close game, be it the other team's quick guard killing us on the perimeter or one of ours forgetting to call time-out, or dribbling it off his foot, or getting a timeline or backcourt violation. We need coolness under pressure.

I'm gonna stop now, though I could go on forever. I think the major point is we need to see a drastic reduction in selfishness, we need to see a drastic improvement in togetherness, and we need to see signs of significant player evolution and development.

One of the things I liked about Isiah in Indy was his purported development of guys like Foster, O'Neal, Artest and Tinsley. But here we've seen none of that. You can blame it on roster churning, bad chemistry, hiring inappropriate coaches, whatever, but this has been Isiah' watch and he's talked numerous times about us improving ourselves internally and I've yet to see it so far.

Marbury, TT, Baker, James, etc are all guys who were supposed to benefit under Isiah and I've yet to see it. You could make a case for Crawford but I credit Jamal himself for it. Every year his role is turned upside down and I don't know if he even knows what his role or position will be this year. He may improve again, or he may be the one to crack and revolt. Curry showed me nothing in terms of development last year. Ditto Frye and Lee. best I could tell they left the same players they came in.

Now I know it was only one year for those guys and we can put whatever blame we want on Larry Brown, but it's still on Isiah's watch and it's imperative they do develop. This year we are speaking in terms of mediocrity, but my passion for this team is not to support mediocrity, it's to despise it. We need to see indications that we have two or three players on track to be foundations, leaders, and all-stars for this team. Otherwise what is our direction really all about?

It was Larry's job to steady Steph, to develop the kids, and to make Curry and all-star, and now it's Isiah's. These are the things he must do. If we see heart. camaraderie, leadership, effort, maturity, and development I'll be happy, and as an aside, I'd expect at least a mediocre record (38-44 wins) to show for it.

Posted by nixluva:

How can you say that Lee didn't show any development. He looked awful shooting from the floor at first, but he kept working on it and was actually pretty good at the end of the year. Its not like he didn't put in any effort. So far this year it looks like he's improved from the FT line and his shot looks altogether much smoother.

Posted by nixluva:
Frye showed me a lot. He wasn't even supposed to be much of anything according to many pundits, but he was the 2nd best rookie for much of the year despite all the turmoil on the team. I really hate to include these guys in any argument about showing something, since the really just got started. Hopefully this year they'll show more growth.