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Team USA loses to Greece. No more gold!
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wsdm
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9/1/2006  3:41 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

good posts. We would easily win if we sent kidd, kobe, KG, Duncan & Shaq instead of toying around with gilbert arenas, Jamison & bruce bowen



[Edited by - gunsnewing on 09-01-2006 3:31 PM]
I don't know if it's that simple. Is Kidd at this age really better than Paul? Is Kobe really that much better than Lebron? And Duncan didn't do anything last time. I don't think the team just needs to add more stars or bigger stars. The problems probably have more to do with perimeter shooting and defense.

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nykbasketball
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9/1/2006  3:42 PM
i would send paul, wade, RJ, bosh and KG

I could bring redd, bowen, Frye, and melo + wade off the bench.

Only saying Frye because he is basically the typical INternational PF with a little less range-- he can hit three's i think. And most importantly his great personality and team play
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s3231
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9/1/2006  3:43 PM
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by gunsnewing:

good posts. We would easily win if we sent kidd, kobe, KG, Duncan & Shaq instead of toying around with gilbert arenas, Jamison & bruce bowen



[Edited by - gunsnewing on 09-01-2006 3:31 PM]
I don't know if it's that simple. Is Kidd at this age really better than Paul? Is Kobe really that much better than Lebron? And Duncan didn't do anything last time. I don't think the team just needs to add more stars or bigger stars. The problems probably have more to do with perimeter shooting and defense.
Kobe can certainly shoot much better than LeBron.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
gunsnewing
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9/1/2006  3:45 PM
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by gunsnewing:

good posts. We would easily win if we sent kidd, kobe, KG, Duncan & Shaq instead of toying around with gilbert arenas, Jamison & bruce bowen



[Edited by - gunsnewing on 09-01-2006 3:31 PM]
I don't know if it's that simple. Is Kidd at this age really better than Paul? Is Kobe really that much better than Lebron? And Duncan didn't do anything last time. I don't think the team just needs to add more stars or bigger stars. The problems probably have more to do with perimeter shooting and defense.


if ur building a fantasy team yes you need good FG% but if you're building a winner you need players who know how to win and will do whatever it takes to win. You need stars who have been successful in the nba. Guys who know what its like to make sacrifices for 82games in order to come out on top. None of these current guys have experienced that.
Bippity10
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9/1/2006  3:49 PM
That's why it's a process. You have to give these guys time to grow together and gain that experience instead of abandoning the plan and going back to the win first all-star teams of the past. These guys are team guys they just haven't learned yet. They will improve but it will take time. We are not good enough to do it overnight.
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nyk4ever
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9/1/2006  3:52 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by gunsnewing:

good posts. We would easily win if we sent kidd, kobe, KG, Duncan & Shaq instead of toying around with gilbert arenas, Jamison & bruce bowen



[Edited by - gunsnewing on 09-01-2006 3:31 PM]
I don't know if it's that simple. Is Kidd at this age really better than Paul? Is Kobe really that much better than Lebron? And Duncan didn't do anything last time. I don't think the team just needs to add more stars or bigger stars. The problems probably have more to do with perimeter shooting and defense.


if ur building a fantasy team yes you need good FG% but if you're building a winner you need players who know how to win and will do whatever it takes to win. You need stars who have been successful in the nba. Guys who know what its like to make sacrifices for 82games in order to come out on top. None of these current guys have experienced that.

That is why I would take 13 Shane Battiers, 1(your choice of Duhon, Bibby) and 1 Kobe. That would be my team, I would be pretty confident in them too. The key in the international game is having a PG who can control the tempo, make good passes and play good defense. This is when the US will win.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
gunsnewing
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9/1/2006  3:56 PM
you're right this group may gell someday and in the meantime we have to do a better job of teaching defense and shooting and stop focusing on athletism alone
s3231
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9/1/2006  4:01 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

I think the reason this team was put together is that they feel these young players will have a better idea of how to play like a team 2 and 4 years from now. That's why the older players were left off. We are trying to get away from all-star teams and build teams that can be together for years to come. We are trying to build. Foregoing the "win now" mentality to develop a team t hat can win for a long time. We are trying to acheive what the Euro's have. A team that will play together, develop some cohesiveness and ultimately have experience.
Will we really be able to win for a long time though this way? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are trying to fix it. I just don't think we have the right players out there.

We don't have any shooters on this team and our defenders gamble like hell on steals but don't really play good man defense.

What I am saying is that this current US team could play together for years for all I care, but they will still have problems in the Olympics and most likely lose again.

I don't like the idea of putting together all-star teams to send to these things, but, I think sending our best players will at least get us back on top. While this is done, the NBA game could be fixed to emphasize team play more so that the players we send in the future will be more ready for these international competitions.

I don't see why we have to sacrifice losing another Olmpics or two to wait for something that will most likely not even work.

If you want to build a team, you have to do it the right way. We didn't.

We went half and half sending our lower tier all-stars like Jamison and Johnson (don't even think he has been an all-star yet) while bringing role players like Brad Miller and Battier. You either go in one direction or you don't.

We had a bad mix of players and another two years of playing together won't solve that unless there are changes on the roster.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Bippity10
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9/1/2006  4:01 PM
Think about that gunsnewing. Darius Miles jersey's are everywhere. Why? Because this guy has been sold. He can't play. But he's been sold. Tall, lanky, loads of athleticism to go along with poor attitude, lack of fundamentals and self-entitlement. Not to bash Stephon. This is to bash US basketball and how we've marketed a lesser game. Marbs has never won anything and yet his jersey sells like hotcakes. The man can definitely play, but why would you have a career 38 win guys jersey on your back? Marketing. You are a star before you acheive anything. You are a paper champion. Instead of having to win to get all the accolades all you have to do is sell well enough that in the future maybe possibly someday you will win.
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Bippity10
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9/1/2006  4:03 PM
Posted by s3231:
Posted by Bippity10:

I think the reason this team was put together is that they feel these young players will have a better idea of how to play like a team 2 and 4 years from now. That's why the older players were left off. We are trying to get away from all-star teams and build teams that can be together for years to come. We are trying to build. Foregoing the "win now" mentality to develop a team t hat can win for a long time. We are trying to acheive what the Euro's have. A team that will play together, develop some cohesiveness and ultimately have experience.
Will we really be able to win for a long time though this way? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are trying to fix it. I just don't think we have the right players out there.

We don't have any shooters on this team and our defenders gamble like hell on steals but don't really play good man defense.

What I am saying is that this current US team could play together for years for all I care, but they will still have problems in the Olympics and most likely lose again.

I don't like the idea of putting together all-star teams to send to these things, but, I think sending our best players will at least get us back on top. While this is done, the NBA game could be fixed to emphasize team play more so that the players we send in the future will be more ready for these international competitions.

I don't see why we have to sacrifice losing another Olmpics or two to wait for something that will most likely not even work.

If you want to build a team, you have to do it the right way. We didn't.

We went half and half sending our lower tier all-stars like Jamison and Johnson (don't even think he has been an all-star yet) while bringing role players like Brad Miller and Battier. You either go in one direction or you don't.

We had a bad mix of players and another two years of playing together won't solve that unless there are changes on the roster.


No I agree with you 100%. We do need shooters and we do need defenders. And my guess is over time they will be added. The job right now is to get a nucleus of guys that can play together and want to play together. And then work in role players that can fill in the holes. that's how you build any team. The more we play the more we figure out what we need. But I agree, defense is glaring. Shooting is glaring. We must add these guys.
I just hope that people will like me
gunsnewing
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9/1/2006  4:07 PM
and most important the nucleus guys have to defend and shoot better because they will be the guys logging most of the minutes and they're the guys who will have to get it done in crunch time. I don't think Lebron, Melo & co are the right mix and I don't think its a guarantee that you'll get those stars to play D the way previous stars have
s3231
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9/1/2006  4:11 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by s3231:
Posted by Bippity10:

I think the reason this team was put together is that they feel these young players will have a better idea of how to play like a team 2 and 4 years from now. That's why the older players were left off. We are trying to get away from all-star teams and build teams that can be together for years to come. We are trying to build. Foregoing the "win now" mentality to develop a team t hat can win for a long time. We are trying to acheive what the Euro's have. A team that will play together, develop some cohesiveness and ultimately have experience.
Will we really be able to win for a long time though this way? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are trying to fix it. I just don't think we have the right players out there.

We don't have any shooters on this team and our defenders gamble like hell on steals but don't really play good man defense.

What I am saying is that this current US team could play together for years for all I care, but they will still have problems in the Olympics and most likely lose again.

I don't like the idea of putting together all-star teams to send to these things, but, I think sending our best players will at least get us back on top. While this is done, the NBA game could be fixed to emphasize team play more so that the players we send in the future will be more ready for these international competitions.

I don't see why we have to sacrifice losing another Olmpics or two to wait for something that will most likely not even work.

If you want to build a team, you have to do it the right way. We didn't.

We went half and half sending our lower tier all-stars like Jamison and Johnson (don't even think he has been an all-star yet) while bringing role players like Brad Miller and Battier. You either go in one direction or you don't.

We had a bad mix of players and another two years of playing together won't solve that unless there are changes on the roster.


No I agree with you 100%. We do need shooters and we do need defenders. And my guess is over time they will be added. The job right now is to get a nucleus of guys that can play together and want to play together. And then work in role players that can fill in the holes. that's how you build any team. The more we play the more we figure out what we need. But I agree, defense is glaring. Shooting is glaring. We must add these guys.

I hope they can add the right players because I can't stand watching USA lose when we can win with our best players.

Like gunsnewing said, I'm not even that confident in this nucleus. I'm not sure if its smart to avoid adding a couple of better players to that core simply because of age.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Bippity10
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9/1/2006  4:11 PM
Add Kobe to that mix. He becomes the designated gunner at that point and then what exactly is Wade's role? It starts to look like an all-star team again. The defense was horrible today. When that core group was on the floor it was like they had never seen a pick and roll before. You can see 1 or 2 guys open on every one and that's not including the roll guy. That just goes back to the NBA never asking their players to do that becuase back in the early 90's the Knicks and Pistion "ruined" the NBA. It makes good marketing sense to open up the game, and in the end we are big business but ultimately it is really hurting our game. Only in america would Stephon Marbury and Stevie Francis have nicknames.
I just hope that people will like me
technomaster
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9/1/2006  4:16 PM
I don't really buy into this theory about other teams playing together for years.

It's not like most of the other top teams hang out together all year--- they're all professional athletes--- some of are in the US, others are spread out in different leagues in Europe and South America. For example, how's the Spanish team going to know how to play cohesively when their best scorer is away in the NBA for 9 months of the year, and the other 14 players on 14 different teams throughout the year?

Sure, other int'l teams *tend* to use a more similar cast of players each time... but you'd imagine that Ginobili feels a lot more comfortable playing with his Spurs teammates than the strangers from his homeland.

By the same token, however, you can easily say that LeBron, Carmelo, Wade, and Brand all had experience practicing and playing with each other on last year's team. Some of them work out together during the summer, and others even practiced and played with each other on the all-star team.

IMHO, you've gotta give credit where credit's due--- the US team just got beat. Strange things happen when it's one and done. In the NCAA tournament and in the NFL, anything can happen in 1 game. Sometimes it's a matter of just making a clutch play or two... and bam, the favorite team loses.

The US team that's sent to the Olympics could probably stand to have a few shooters to keep the defense honest, but based on the final score, it sounds like the US executed on offense just fine. They either had a bad defensive game, or the team from Greece had an unbelievable offensive game... plus were good enough on D to take the win.



Posted by TheGame:

The USA is always going to be at a disadvantage because we bring a group of players together for a few weeks and the other countries have teams that have been playing together for years. It is a prime example of how team chemistry and cohesiveness can overcome superior talent. This team was coachable and wanted to win. They just went up against a better "team." But the new USA program is just getting started. Hopefully, by the time the Olympics arrive, our team will obtain the chemistry needed to beat the top international teams. We also need to add more shooters. The international game is all about 3pt shooting. We need to add at least 2 more 3pt specialist to the team.

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
Bippity10
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9/1/2006  4:21 PM
Posted by technomaster:

I don't really buy into this theory about other teams playing together for years.

It's not like most of the other top teams hang out together all year--- they're all professional athletes--- some of are in the US, others are spread out in different leagues in Europe and South America. For example, how's the Spanish team going to know how to play cohesively when their best scorer is away in the NBA for 9 months of the year, and the other 14 players on 14 different teams throughout the year?

Sure, other int'l teams *tend* to use a more similar cast of players each time... but you'd imagine that Ginobili feels a lot more comfortable playing with his Spurs teammates than the strangers from his homeland.

By the same token, however, you can easily say that LeBron, Carmelo, Wade, and Brand all had experience practicing and playing with each other on last year's team. Some of them work out together during the summer, and others even practiced and played with each other on the all-star team.

IMHO, you've gotta give credit where credit's due--- the US team just got beat. Strange things happen when it's one and done. In the NCAA tournament and in the NFL, anything can happen in 1 game. Sometimes it's a matter of just making a clutch play or two... and bam, the favorite team loses.

The US team that's sent to the Olympics could probably stand to have a few shooters to keep the defense honest, but based on the final score, it sounds like the US executed on offense just fine. They either had a bad defensive game, or the team from Greece had an unbelievable offensive game... plus were good enough on D to take the win.



Posted by TheGame:

The USA is always going to be at a disadvantage because we bring a group of players together for a few weeks and the other countries have teams that have been playing together for years. It is a prime example of how team chemistry and cohesiveness can overcome superior talent. This team was coachable and wanted to win. They just went up against a better "team." But the new USA program is just getting started. Hopefully, by the time the Olympics arrive, our team will obtain the chemistry needed to beat the top international teams. We also need to add more shooters. The international game is all about 3pt shooting. We need to add at least 2 more 3pt specialist to the team.

Our defense after the first quarter was pretty bad. Offense isn't the problem overall. But it becomes a problem when teams make runs at us. When the d really gets up on us our guys start going one one one. We get bad shots and turnovers and since we aren't stopping the other team on the other end it really starts to take the air out of us. This leads to frustration, arguing with the refs and more one on one play. Team ball and adding shooters doesn't mean we will score more. It means we will score more efficiently. We won't have to rely on busting our tales to get a steal and some transition points to score. When teams make a run we can relax, run a play and take a good shot. Good shots lead to less cold shooting, less runs, and less frustration. As a coach of the youth to me this is the biggest flaw with our game. When guys score our mindset isn't to get a good shot for our team on one end and then try to shut the guy down on the other end. Our immedidate thought is to run the ball up court, isolate and show that guy he can't guard me. Then i can relax on D after.
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s3231
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9/1/2006  4:28 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Add Kobe to that mix. He becomes the designated gunner at that point and then what exactly is Wade's role? It starts to look like an all-star team again. The defense was horrible today. When that core group was on the floor it was like they had never seen a pick and roll before. You can see 1 or 2 guys open on every one and that's not including the roll guy. That just goes back to the NBA never asking their players to do that becuase back in the early 90's the Knicks and Pistion "ruined" the NBA. It makes good marketing sense to open up the game, and in the end we are big business but ultimately it is really hurting our game. Only in america would Stephon Marbury and Stevie Francis have nicknames.

When did it ever become a bad thing to send an all-star team? Aren't you supposed to be represented by your best players?

I don't see why people are so against the idea. We've done it the right way twice in 92 and 96 and we had positive results.

The problem is, we got too confident after that and thought the lower-tier all-stars would get the job done and blow out the competition.

As I said before, the NBA game really needs to be fixed. I agree with you on that completely. I just don't see why we have to embarrass ourselves in the process.

[Edited by - s3231 on 09-01-2006 4:29 PM]
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Marv
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9/1/2006  4:32 PM
Posted by Caseloads:

baby shaq (sofo) killed the knicks - demolished elton brand

uncle sofi!!!!!

i wanted this guy!



[Edited by - marv on 09-01-2006 4:32 PM]

[Edited by - marv on 09-01-2006 4:38 PM]
gunsnewing
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9/1/2006  4:38 PM
When did it ever become a bad thing to send an all-star team? Aren't you supposed to be represented by your best players?

The minute the NBA handed the keys over to guys like Lebron & Carmelo without letting them earn it first through hardwork. These guys don't feel a need to work on things like defense & fundamentals unlike guys like Jordan & Kobe who busted their butts to prove themselves. Then people start placing the blame on too many superstars when in reality none of these guys are superstars just yet




[Edited by - gunsnewing on 09-01-2006 4:58 PM]
Bippity10
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9/1/2006  4:41 PM
I'm not sure I agree with that. i think Wade and Lebron will work on that side of the ball. The problem is that the coach's won't demand it of them so they will fall back on bad habits. It's been that way for them since highschool. No way some dad coaching a high school team is going to threaten to do anything to Lebron for not playing D if he is scoring a million a game. That coach would be called a disciplinarian and fired. It's not thta these guys don't want to play d, it's that they have never been taught how. IMO.
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Bippity10
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9/1/2006  4:42 PM
But I do agree that the NBA hands the kesy to guys that haven't proven things yet. The face of the NBA should be Tim Duncan. It's not.
I just hope that people will like me
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