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I think Marbury and Francis will be GONE within' the season:
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TheGame
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8/28/2006  10:49 PM
These guys are loyal to IT and will play hard for him. The only good that came out of last year is that LB exposed every weakness that this team had. Now IT has a clear understanding of what he needs to do to get this team to win. I agree that the season will depend on whether everyone comes back in shape and ready to play. However, as others have said, there is no reason to believe that guys will come back out of shape this year (well maybe JJ1, but we can sit him and play Frye more at center, which will probably work out better).
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nixluva
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8/28/2006  11:36 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Nixluva once again, for the final time to all you big babies that bristle anytime anyone says anything that isn't all gold about the kNicks. I am not making predictions. I am analyzing the team, seeing their weaknesses and strengths and pointing them out. Its up to you to draw your own conclusion. If you think the fact that our guys quit last year is a direct result of LB and that it's all fine now than that is okay that's your opinion. Noone is saying don't have that opinion. But also don't get on the other guy who feels differently. They're opinions dude.

You see you ARE making conclusions! You assume that the team simply quit last year. I'm not sure that you can say that when Steph came out fighting and leading the team to victories and at least competing hard before he got injured. Also if you're a player and the coach of the team is shuffling the lineup like a deck of cards that can make you LOOK like you gave up and don't care. What i'm saying is that you guys who keep making all the sarcastic remarks about the players on this team aren't giving enough importance to how much damage a coach can do if he's got an agenda like LB had. Not starting Frye even after saying he would over and over again. leaving Lee of the active roster and then barely using him. Not making Jamal a starter from the get go and then making it worse by leaving a Struggling QRich in there. There are TONS of things that a coach has the power to do that can RUIN a TEAM and LB did a LOT them. You say the players quit and I say LB never gave them a CHANCE to succeed.

How hard do you think it is to take a team and add 8 new players and make them jell as a unit? Well under optimum circumstances most would say it will take time. Then how about if you put that team in the worst possible set of circumstances with a leader that doesn't like them or believe in them. A coach who only wishes to move most of them out. Don't try to convince us that we saw who and what this team really was last year, cuz that would be impossible. Judging Francis who came later in the season with all the crap that was already going on, is equally unfair. He couldn't have come in under worse circumstances. I'm telling you that this team WON'T be as bad as last year. The circumstances no longer exist for such a poor showing. I believe this team is gonna be the surprise of the coming season.

People are writing us off based on a LACK of knowledge. Last year masked what the real potential of this team is. So when this team is playing like a team this year, it will be a shock to many. It won't surprise me.
Allanfan20
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8/28/2006  11:38 PM
Thegame and BasketballJones. You are right that these guys should definitely have a sense of loyalty to Isiah b/c he's done the same for them. But with that being said, doesn't it make you scarred that these guys show no loyalty to any other coach or GM and suddenly Isiah is the coach and the "Loyalty" button is pressed? It's like I said, people are creatures of habits. Something I've learned in life is that no matter how hard people try to change, the more we stay the same. Stephon will totally show that loyalty at the beginning. So may Francis and Jalen and Mo T too. But what happens when they have a terrible game, Isiah yells at them for not playing defense and these guys feel resentment. Or what if the loyalty simply wears off, or what if Crawford and Nate start to completely outplay Steph and Francis that Franburys minutes go down to 30 a game, as Bip has preached? These guys have their set personalities and they've been exposed and it's nothing to play around with.

That's why I say Isiah is going to get frustrated with them and trade them as soon as he can. He doesn't want anyone messing with his possible final NBA destination. He needs to do what's best for the team now and the future and if he sees any of that being hindered, he knows his job is on the line.

Franbury is gone.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Allanfan20
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8/28/2006  11:45 PM
If the Yugo's a few years back could win the Eurochampionship while their country was being bombed to the stone ages and their relatives are being slaughtered than I expect my 50 win talent to at least win 30 games when someone is being mean to them.

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“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
BasketballJones
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8/29/2006  12:45 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Thegame and BasketballJones. You are right that these guys should definitely have a sense of loyalty to Isiah b/c he's done the same for them. But with that being said, doesn't it make you scarred that these guys show no loyalty to any other coach or GM and suddenly Isiah is the coach and the "Loyalty" button is pressed? It's like I said, people are creatures of habits. Something I've learned in life is that no matter how hard people try to change, the more we stay the same. Stephon will totally show that loyalty at the beginning. So may Francis and Jalen and Mo T too. But what happens when they have a terrible game, Isiah yells at them for not playing defense and these guys feel resentment. Or what if the loyalty simply wears off, or what if Crawford and Nate start to completely outplay Steph and Francis that Franburys minutes go down to 30 a game, as Bip has preached? These guys have their set personalities and they've been exposed and it's nothing to play around with.

That's why I say Isiah is going to get frustrated with them and trade them as soon as he can. He doesn't want anyone messing with his possible final NBA destination. He needs to do what's best for the team now and the future and if he sees any of that being hindered, he knows his job is on the line.

Franbury is gone.

You may be right. To me, that is the storyline of the season. What will Isiah's players do once Isiah is coach? For someone like Marbury, it's sorta the end of the line if he doesn't produce, IMO.

https:// It's not so hard.
wsdm
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8/29/2006  8:05 AM
They're creatures of habit to some extent, but things can change. The GM in Minn said they had full seasons where Marbury had a great attitude 80% of the time and full seasons where it was closer to 30%. I think Marbury will occasionally go back to his bad habbits but will be much closer to the 80% number this year under Isiah.

[Edited by - wsdm on 08-29-2006 08:05 AM]
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Bippity10
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8/29/2006  9:02 AM
Why are we settling for 80%. If we can't get 100% than you aren't winning a championship with the guy. We need to demand 100%. If he can't give it to us it may be time to go in another direction
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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8/29/2006  9:08 AM
Nixluva: For the 81st time. I am making no predictions on what will happen. I have not once said that Marbs or Francis or even Mo taylor will revolt. I am raising the question what if? It's a possibility that all of us have in the back of our minds whether we want to admit it or not.

What I find unbeleivable is we went 23-59 and people are talking about solid ball. No Bip you are wrong, Knick fans have not begun to settle.
I just hope that people will like me
wsdm
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8/29/2006  9:18 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

Why are we settling for 80%. If we can't get 100% than you aren't winning a championship with the guy. We need to demand 100%. If he can't give it to us it may be time to go in another direction
No one's settling for 80% but it's a big enough change to make the team much better than last year. Then you have better options, which could include trading Marbury when he and his team are having a better season. The guys are only human, though. It's a myth to think they play their hardest 100% of the time. I've seen Bowen get lazy and get beat off the dribble at times; I've seen Ben Wallace not rotate on defense. No human gives 100% effort 100% of the time.
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Bippity10
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8/29/2006  7:15 PM
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by Bippity10:

Why are we settling for 80%. If we can't get 100% than you aren't winning a championship with the guy. We need to demand 100%. If he can't give it to us it may be time to go in another direction
No one's settling for 80% but it's a big enough change to make the team much better than last year. Then you have better options, which could include trading Marbury when he and his team are having a better season. The guys are only human, though. It's a myth to think they play their hardest 100% of the time. I've seen Bowen get lazy and get beat off the dribble at times; I've seen Ben Wallace not rotate on defense. No human gives 100% effort 100% of the time.

I'm a coach, trust me I know that noone gives 100% all the time. But I still demand it. And guess what my team plays harder than any team in the league. Other coaches ask me why their teams are so lazy. I say because you have lowered your standards and think 80% is acceptable.

The reason Marbs has been such a head case is because every coach he's ever had has been unable to demand anything from him. If they do he revolts or their jobs are threatened. In the end we will do what others do. We will either demand he be on all the time and get every last ounce of effort from him and then everyone will be winners. Or we continue to cowtow to him, ask for just enough so as not to hurt his trade value or feelings and end up trading him so that we can bring in someone who's only motivation is team. 80% is unacceptable.
I just hope that people will like me
rvhoss
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8/29/2006  7:17 PM
ok ok, you win bip...we are demanding 100% effort 100% of the time.

all kool aid all the time.
Bippity10
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8/29/2006  7:22 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

ok ok, you win bip...we are demanding 100% effort 100% of the time.


I'm only going to do it 80% of the time.
I just hope that people will like me
Marv
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8/29/2006  7:22 PM
F**k 100%!!! I want 110%!!!!
wsdm
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8/29/2006  9:00 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by Bippity10:

Why are we settling for 80%. If we can't get 100% than you aren't winning a championship with the guy. We need to demand 100%. If he can't give it to us it may be time to go in another direction
No one's settling for 80% but it's a big enough change to make the team much better than last year. Then you have better options, which could include trading Marbury when he and his team are having a better season. The guys are only human, though. It's a myth to think they play their hardest 100% of the time. I've seen Bowen get lazy and get beat off the dribble at times; I've seen Ben Wallace not rotate on defense. No human gives 100% effort 100% of the time.

I'm a coach, trust me I know that noone gives 100% all the time. But I still demand it. And guess what my team plays harder than any team in the league. Other coaches ask me why their teams are so lazy. I say because you have lowered your standards and think 80% is acceptable.

The reason Marbs has been such a head case is because every coach he's ever had has been unable to demand anything from him. If they do he revolts or their jobs are threatened. In the end we will do what others do. We will either demand he be on all the time and get every last ounce of effort from him and then everyone will be winners. Or we continue to cowtow to him, ask for just enough so as not to hurt his trade value or feelings and end up trading him so that we can bring in someone who's only motivation is team. 80% is unacceptable.
I don't think you're disagreeing with me about anything. I mentioned that 100% effort 80% of the time would be an improvement from Marbury BUT never said I would accept that. I actually said you could consider trading him if he got his trade value up, which I suspect would happen if he had the 100/80 effort.
www.selltheknicks.com----No more DOLANOMICS!
rvhoss
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8/30/2006  1:41 AM
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by Bippity10:

Why are we settling for 80%. If we can't get 100% than you aren't winning a championship with the guy. We need to demand 100%. If he can't give it to us it may be time to go in another direction
No one's settling for 80% but it's a big enough change to make the team much better than last year. Then you have better options, which could include trading Marbury when he and his team are having a better season. The guys are only human, though. It's a myth to think they play their hardest 100% of the time. I've seen Bowen get lazy and get beat off the dribble at times; I've seen Ben Wallace not rotate on defense. No human gives 100% effort 100% of the time.

I'm a coach, trust me I know that noone gives 100% all the time. But I still demand it. And guess what my team plays harder than any team in the league. Other coaches ask me why their teams are so lazy. I say because you have lowered your standards and think 80% is acceptable.

The reason Marbs has been such a head case is because every coach he's ever had has been unable to demand anything from him. If they do he revolts or their jobs are threatened. In the end we will do what others do. We will either demand he be on all the time and get every last ounce of effort from him and then everyone will be winners. Or we continue to cowtow to him, ask for just enough so as not to hurt his trade value or feelings and end up trading him so that we can bring in someone who's only motivation is team. 80% is unacceptable.
I don't think you're disagreeing with me about anything. I mentioned that 100% effort 80% of the time would be an improvement from Marbury BUT never said I would accept that. I actually said you could consider trading him if he got his trade value up, which I suspect would happen if he had the 100/80 effort.

what's good for the goose is good for the gander

[Edited by - rvhoss on 08-30-2006 01:42 AM]
all kool aid all the time.
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I think Marbury and Francis will be GONE within' the season:
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