Posted by nixluva:

Sorry but this is a bit long :)

OK let's not go back to the 1st rd thing as somehow a sign that Steph isn't a good PG. That's just STUPID!!! He's ONE MAN and NO ONE can all by himself make a team win. Just ask KG about that. I can't tell you how many times i've argued these points over the years, but statistically players don't avg fewer shots when playing with Steph.

FACT:

Marion avg'd 15.9 and 16.8 shots a game with Nash
Marion avg'd 17.2 and 18.0 shots a game with Steph

KT avg'd 7.3 shots with Nash (in only 53 games)
KT avg'd 11.2 shots with Steph in his last yr in NY

Now also realize that Steph was playing under a different system and Coach when they played together than the system Mike D'Antoni has Nash playing under for the last 2 years.

This is one article about the year Steph had in Amare's 1st year in the league when they made the playoffs:

"Steph was huge," Suns coach Frank Johnson says afterward with requisite amazement. "He wouldn't allow us to lose."

"Most importantly, in his second season with the Suns, Marbury has pulled this preseason lottery lock into playoff contention with hard-nosed play and solid team leadership. Simply put, there's not a point guard in the game who's outplaying him. And Marbury's clutch-time performance--measured by the NBA as production in the last two minutes of games and in overtime--has been among the best in the business all season long."

www.findarticles.com/p/ar...i_99848989

I'd like for some of you to read these statements from the coach and owner at the time in PHX just before Steph came to New York. Remember the Suns had gone to the playoffs the year before and Amare was in his 2nd season now:

From Dec 2. interview with the Coach:

"Ray: Everybody looks to Stephon Marbury. HeÕs the point guard on this team. Clearly the leader of this ball club, just by virtue of not only his position, but really his nature, as well. You want to be a running team, but itÕs hard to be a running team when it seems like not everybodyÕs on the same page (with respect to) running. Is that still something that this team is having to work on very hard each day in practice? Because you see opportunities to run but it doesnÕt seem like thereÕs anybody to fill the lane.

Johnson: We do a good job at times, and then at other times we donÕt. WeÕre just not consistent there. Sometimes our rebounding is not as strong as it needs to be. We need to get those rebounds without having to run them down. Clean rebounds without them being poked out of our hands. And sometimes when we do and we get steals and we get those clean rebounds, we have a better chance of running. As youÕre seeing, we just have a tough time sometimes holding onto those defensive rebounds that weÕre getting."

(This is what the Owner Colangelo had to say about things On Dec 4. the Day before Amare was injured}:

"Colangelo: I think thatÕs accurate. Shawn has been very tentative. He came off this ankle injury and he doesnÕt even look close to being the same player that he was previously. But he needs to be much more aggressive in his game overall. AmarŽ is letting too many things bother him, it appears to me, on the court, be it the officials, the conversation from the bench, whatever. But heÕs not on a synch that he should be. Marbury (Wednesday) night took the bull by the horns offensively, to pick up slack, and I think heÕs been so conscious of distributing the ball; he lost part of his effectiveness in a number of games. When you hear things like, ÒWell, youÕre out of synch,Ó I think thatÕs a pretty good representation, individual players and the team collectively.

Caller (Brian, Phoenix): Noticing the games, IÕm seeing a lot of the offense being run from the top of the key. YouÕve been around a long time and you know that throughout history a lot of the great teams have run their offense from the low post out. When youÕve got a presence like AmarŽ, it seems like we can pound it down in there and when they start sagging in on him, then things can open up out top more.

Colangelo: In a general sense, thatÕs correct. So your question is, what can we do to better utilize the talent that we have?

Burns: I think what he was getting at was maybe more of a change in the focus of the offense, to run it around AmarŽ in the low post rather than Stephon at the top of the key.

Colangelo: HereÕs one of the issues. Number one, thereÕs an awful lot of match up zone being played in the NBA today and thereÕs not a lot of one-on-one guarding of offensive players, but then again, teams are mixing it up, and again the coaches are looking at the rules, (and) they figure out ways to circumvent. ThatÕs exactly the way it is in the NBA today. So, itÕs difficult to get the ball where you want to get it, and one thing I donÕt like is we do a lot of side to side, up front, rather than penetration and getting the ball into the low post, but part of that is dictated by the defense."


I posted all of this to help destroy some of the negative perceptions of Steph and deal with facts of what happend and how he was viewed. OK so now a bit more background on how things transpired in PHX just before Steph got traded: On Nov. 26th they were 7-7 and had just gone 4-1 at that time things were looking better, the team was playing better and Steph had a couple of double, doubles with 12 and 11 assist games. They still had setbacks losing the next 3 games, then in the next game they won but Amare was injured. This was the turning point for the team. Had Amare not been injured they likely would not have had such a bad stretch and neither the Coach nor Steph would have been let go. They may still have made a trade after the season in order to make the type of Cap room they wanted, but Amare's injury gave them the out they needed to justify trading Steph during the season.

Steph's shot attempts have gone down since he's been here in NY. When Steph got here he was playing great and until the KVH and Doleac trades he was playing up to his potential and setting up teammates. He ended up avg'ing 9.3 assists in NY, but he would've been higher had the trades not happened. That was an adjustment that set things back a bit. Imagine how this team would've looked with a healthy H2O and Steph? You can't tell me that he wouldn't have been spectacular in that situation. Its interesting that his performance looked similar during the streak this year when he played his game and had a SET LINEUP for a change. In truth there isn't really much wrong with Steph's game. If we continue to develop the around him, we'll be a very good team. We have to allow him to be who his is or he's not going to be as effective as he could. Like Arenas and AI, Steph needs that level of freedom and support from his coach and team. YEAH he's capable of playing like those guys we just never seem to want to let him do that. Steph always has coaches who want to change him instead of using his great ability to help the team win. Maybe this year Isiah will be the one coach who doesn't hold him back from being who and what he is.

Funny how everyone ignored this....

Posted by misterearl:

>>Marbs just get a bad rap all around

Holfresh - I had the opportunity to interview Marbury when he was at Georgia Tech. Seemed like the typical New Yorker who needs time to feel comfortable with a stranger. In that sense, he reminded me of Patrick Ewing, who suffered the type of personal insults in college that would make most of ready to throw hands and develop a harder exterior just to survive the attacks.

Marbury doesn't need any marketing past his own demeanor and body language. It is not about his skill-set,but more about his
approach the game and his teammates.

I want to see Marbury congratulate someone for EFFORT after a busted play.

I want to see Marbury, as impossible as it may be, block out playing to the crowd and stop questioning the refs

I want to see Marbury call a huddle at the foul line before a free throw attempt, just to check assignments

I want to see Marbury throw Nate a towel when he comes off the floor

I want to see Marbury play well in his 58 cents shoes, continue to support noble causes like Katrina victims and keep visiting Coney Island to remind city kids they can make it if they try.

I want to see Marbury be the first one to run over and pick up Balkman after he dives into the stands after a loose ball

I want to see Marbury embrace the press, no matter what foolishness they write and take the high road with a smile of forgiveness

I want to see Marbury win a playoff game in Newe York

Thats why we have scrubs at the end of the bench like Junk Yard Dog, Malik Rose and now Jared Jefferies...They can be the cheerleaders because they don't offer us much else...They can carry the water bottles and towels for the real guys who are expected to carry this team to the next level..

Posted by misterearl:

For the Knicks to be a better basketbal team it only requires Marbury to

Posted by misterearl:

Extreme Marbury Makeover

>>Marbury has yet to prove what he brings to the table translates into winning basketball

Rubbish

I contend that Marbury HAS what it takes to be a winner

Being a winner is as much a state of mind as it is "playing the (cough) right way"

Nalod - let's NOT wrap it up. Especially on such a dismissive tone.

Marbury has the tangibles.... what he needs are the initangibles...

The traits which fans identify, or attacth to their favorites from a distance - traits like charisma (Magic Johnson), lovability (Starks), improvisation (Doctor J) creativity (Nate Archibald) empathy (Chris Dudley) and poise (Mike Piazza) are difficult to manufacture.

It is unfortunate that a prodigal son cannot get more love.

Quick reply to a unecessarily long story. Marbury is a typical grouchy miserable SOB.

That may work in some parts of NYC but in the real world those kind of traits don't keep you around long.

Of course the NBA is hardly the real world...so the employees get to sit on the bench with a towel on their heads while collecting Multi-Million Dollar checks.

Bottom Line as it refers to Steph .... Grow The Eff Up!!

[Edited by - Junkmein on 08-14-2006 11:56 PM]

Posted by CrushAlot:

I have to say that I am not a big Marbury fan. I found Chris Child's play to be more passionate and endearing. That being said I think while the Knicks may not have had a top level point guard during the Ewing years all of the guys were tremendous team players and helped with the success of the team. I do not see that in Marbury. Ewing was not considered a great vocal leader but his teammates and peers adored and respected him. Spreewell was loved by most of his teammates. Marbury seems to be an enigma. I have never heard who Steph hangs out with on the team. From a distance it appears that he does not have the type of relationship or chemistry with the guys that he plays with that a teammate, especially a point guard, usually has. I did not follow his career in Phoenix but while in NJ I did not see this either. I don't know what the answer is but I don't see the Knicks having alot of sucess with Steph as the point guard despite his individual talents.

Posted by nixluva:

I think many of you are going to be shocked this year and reminded just how good he really is. The last 3 years haven't been kind to him in terms of winning ball. I agree with him in part when he says that he wants to play like Starbury again. I miss that guy too. That guy was one of the best players in the league and I think he can get that back and help this team win for the next few years.