That's the thing. We are slowly going in a direction which could turn out positive but if our focus stays on LB or Zeke having to win or else his career is over then guess what: say goodbye to your core. We don't really have someone we can build around. Curry could be the guy but has never shown the motivation to be the guy. It's tough to build around a 300 lb center that averages 6 boards a game. Maybe Frye becomes that guy, but so far it doesn't look that way. But that's not important. What's important is putting ourselves in position to acquire "the guy" just in case Curry and Frye don't become stars. What's important is creating an atmosphere of hard work and focus on winning so that the young guys aren't coming to camp complaining about last year but are focused upon what they can do to win.

I look at Chicago as an example. If you look at their rebuilding they have made a lot of mistakes since MJ was there. Letting Brand go. They decided to build around two high schoolers with potential. A couple years of watching those lazy as-s players they realized their is no substitute for hard work. Potential is nothing if the guy won't work hard. They weren't afraid to let a guy with potential go to someone else because he may blossom. Instead they focused on one thing. Finding players that have won before. Finding class acts. And backing their pain in the as-s coach. Magically they are back in the hunt.

Meanwhile NY is still out searching for other teams cast offs in the hope that we one day strike it big. Maybe one day we do. It's never happend, but maybe one day we do. Cut the fat, set a standard of winning, get rid of anyone that does not beleive in it. No more excuses. No more coddling. No more blaming the other guy. In NY we play to win. I dont' care if the guy leading you donald duck. Do your job and you don't have to worry about it.

Posted by Allanfan20:

vector, LB did a bad job and even should have been fired. He was part of the problem. Now lets work on fixing the rest of it. It's a very large problem and lingering on LB certainly wont help matters.

Do you think Isiah being on a 1 year ultimatum while being responsible for 2 enormous NBA jobs at the same time helps this problem too?

I agree.. harping on anti-Brown sentiment by Knicks fans is not constructive.
I just hope people don't forget entirely.. because if IT succeeds with these guys this season.. it's an indication that our team was Shanghai'd last year by a coach with an agenda.
That beeing said... Go Knicks!!!

I am praying for a quick start for Isiah this year(as we remove his GM duties). Because if not, guess what, we will be starting over yet again. Only this time we will be starting over with Donald Duck because noone is going ot want to coach here.

I was just making my position known.
I haven't commented to thorougly on other threads on the subject.
Anyways... I hope for the best.
I am a Knicks fan and the team is what matters to me.

Posted by Allanfan20:

vector, LB did a bad job and even should have been fired. He was part of the problem. Now lets work on fixing the rest of it.

That's the productive way to look at it. Everyone on both sides just wants to keep talking about LB. He's an attention grabbing target that's fun to talk about.

Posted by eViL:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Everyone on both sides just wants to keep talking about LB. He's an attention grabbing target that's fun to talk about.

I beg to differ. There are 5 LB related topics on page one. Not one of them was started by a "Larry Lover". It appears that the "Larry Haters" are the ones who can't let go.

But then the Larry supporters won't let it go either. Imagine if no Larry supporter responded to those threads. You'd have about 4 or 5 posters saying "I agree with the initial post" and then the thread would die.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by nyvector16:

Posted by Allanfan20:

vector, LB did a bad job and even should have been fired. He was part of the problem. Now lets work on fixing the rest of it. It's a very large problem and lingering on LB certainly wont help matters.

Do you think Isiah being on a 1 year ultimatum while being responsible for 2 enormous NBA jobs at the same time helps this problem too?

I agree.. harping on anti-Brown sentiment by Knicks fans is not constructive.
I just hope people don't forget entirely.. because if IT succeeds with these guys this season.. it's an indication that our team was Shanghai'd last year by a coach with an agenda.
That beeing said... Go Knicks!!!

The question then becomes is next season about getting back at LB or is it about moving forward and being a successful team. Win or lose who cares who was the coach last year. If we lose I'm not out to hang Isiah. If we win I'm not out to hang LB. If we win I hope our focus is on how can we build the team even better. If we lose my focus is on what are we doing wrong. LB is gone. Get over it.

Personally I think it comes down to this. People are more concerned with saying I told you so(on either side of the fence) then they are about the actual season. No matter how we do, win or lose it's going to be so boring listening to the constant I told you sos.




[Edited by - bippity10 on 08-04-2006 2:50 PM]

[Edited by - bippity10 on 08-04-2006 2:53 PM]

Wait a minute, if Thomas fails then he should be fired. That's is the nature of the business. In all truth the man who should really be fired can't be fired but look at any organization and that's the case. Marbury's salary makes him the focal point. Francis makes equal this money, has been rated better than Marbury when they were on different teams, but now becomes fodder for back ground stories.

It's not the firings themselves that are the problems. After a 23 win season you probably will have firings. And should. It's the logic that once the firings are done we seem to think we did our jobs and every thing is better. Instead of trying to look and figure out why we've gone from JVG to Don to Herb to Lenny to Herb to LB to Isiah we instead see Larry Haters and don haters and Lenny haters celebrating thinking we finally got the guy. Celebrating even though their god dam-n team has stunk for five years. when are we going to stop settling for getting the guy and worry about building a gosh darn team.

Slapping youth on a team is not building a team. Slapping athletic players on a team is not building a team. Finding players that compliment each other is building a team. We are so focused on getting LB that we could care less about why such an awful mix of players and coach was brought together in the first place. Once again in our shortsightedness we are more worried about getting the symptom and not worried about curing the disease of losing that is dragging us down.

I don't want LB to be the victor here. I don't want Isiah to be albe to say see LB we were good. I don't want Lenny Wilkens to be vindicated. I just want my team to realize Patrick is gone and it's time to start building a team without him.

The funny thing is that I make 100% sense and yet people will still fight with me. Since the beginning of 2001 we've seen 7 coach's sit in the coach's seat. Seven!!!!!! And yet I'm the idiot that is wrong. It's amazing to me.

Posted by eViL:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Everyone on both sides just wants to keep talking about LB. He's an attention grabbing target that's fun to talk about.

I beg to differ. There are 5 LB related topics on page one. Not one of them was started by a "Larry Lover". It appears that the "Larry Haters" are the ones who can't let go.

well, he did steal an entire season from us, run Trevor Ariza out of town and demand deals for cap killers Francis and Jalen. and then he acted like he was having acid reflux to get sympathy and later claimed it was "just the flu." everyone should be furious at that douche whistle.

oh, and andrew, the knicks' format has changed much like Team USA's...notice we didn't draft the awesome point guard but picked up the role playing defensive wing that doesn't need the ball.

Then we picked up another defensive fundamentally sound PG.

Then we sign an offer sheet to a role playing defender.

While some may say that the plan has changed, I say it took 2 years to get the offensive weapons and 1 year to fill in the blanks with defensive weapons.

As we enter year 3, while it's been 7 coaches, it's really always been just one.

Zeke is one of the few that can coach this bunch of egos...heck, he was the first to tame Rodman, lambier and company...

I am 100% confident that Aguirre and Zeke will not have any problems with the "egos" that are on the team now...as it stands, I think there are only 3 left that don't have expiring contracts (off the top of my head).

So...Here comes a great year!!!

Posted by JohnWallace44:

Posted by eViL:

Team performs better AFTER MARBURY.

Marbury put the team on his back for one of those games. Remember when he broke the Dream Team scoring record? Yeah, he was the problem.

This is what Marbury is good for -- stats and losses. I thought all he needed was support. Well, look at the Olympics. Marbury had the best players in the world around him and they couldn't win. But hey, at least his numbers looked good. Marbury is and always has been out for dolo. He's undisputedly a carreer loser whose only claim to fame is filling up the box score for the losing side on a nightly basis.