ur right but too little too late its a wasted effort. if we were on the way up and added jeffries than i'd be all for it but we're stuck with guys like francis, marbury, Q & JJ. and then we have a whole slew of other players making millions on the bench. So Isiah's best strength which is drafting is not going to be utilized for at least 3yrs but we keep giving 5yr contracts to a guy who blocks shots then a guy who plays defense and next a guy who rebounds. When are we getting the full package? not for a long time because our lottery pick and cap situation lol but we'll see i hope it works out. I hope Curry finally breaks out or Frye becomes a superstar

I'm just really disappointed about losing Woods and basicially Balkman too. Woods is getting screwed because isiah wants to get rid of him just like he wanted to get rid of layden players. Larry liked Woods for a reason. He tried hard on defense and was a beast on the board and running the break. IMO he is the perfect fit in this new system eventhough defensively he is not as good as JJ right now. He can also even hit a jumper from time to time and would've cost no more than 2-3mm for 3yrs

Posted by gunsnewing:

Posted by Bonn1997:

What's the logjam? He's the team's best SF!

not according to the Wizards who rather take a chance on a 19yr old. Can he shoot? who on this team can? Nate's not even going play, crawford is streaky. this guy is going to be our starting SF for the next 5 years, through 2011? I think it only prolongs our mediocrity and logjam.

I meant the KNICKS' best SF, not the Wizards'. No one said he has to be the Knicks' best SF for the duration of his contract, though. Plenty of good bench players make MLE contracts or even a lot more. It seems like a bit of a stretch to worry about him taking playing time from players a foot shorter than him who play a different position. There are much more direct causes of the lack of playing time Crawford and Nate would get right now.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 07-31-2006 01:21 AM]

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by Solace:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Why is it overpaying? What's the going rate for 6'11" good role players? How often do teams get something better for the MLE? I actually think this is one of the rare occasions when Isiah did NOT overpay.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 07-30-2006 5:53 PM]

Any salary we take on we pay double. As for "good role players". We obviously needed to provide this kind of deal to get him, but we are paying a bit higher than perceived market value. It's not as big an overpay as our past deals, so less complaints on that front. He really hasn't earned a full MLE yet -- he has "potential", which is tough to pay in advance for.

I think he has more than potential. He already is a versatile good defensive player. Which teams have gotten more out of the MLE? I just see it as a non-issue. It's one thing when you give $30 mil to someone who shouldn't be in this league like JJ; it's hard for me to understand it though when people complain about $5 mil per season going to someone who maybe should get $4 mil.

I'm not complaining. Overall, I think it's one of Isiah's better moves, if it works out. Where our cap is at, we missed our small window to get under the cap before the rookies mature, so I'm not going to reference the cap anymore. The Steve Francis trade just about clinched us being over until 2014. So, shell out some $$ to get a guy like Jefferies is a good move. I'd be careful when making him out to be a defensive stopper, though. He's above average on defense, and we absolutely need that, but right now you are paying some for potential, hoping that he develops somewhat of an offensive game and continues to improve on defense. One note, is that this is also a guy that Layden liked a lot back a few years ago in the draft. Something to consider. Layden's one good thing was he was pretty good at picking out talent in the draft, even when it didn't work out. Of course, instead of staying in the draft with a shot at Amare, Nene, Jefferies, he trades the pick for McKnee, but that's the Layden era for you. Anyway, Layden and Isiah both like Jefferies, which is encouraging.

Layden was good at picking out players in the draft? What draft moves did he make that worked out?

Originally posted by Bonn1997:

Layden was good at picking out players in the draft? What draft moves did he make that worked out?

Say what you want. I know it's popular to hate on Layden. Andre Kirilenko, Shandon Anderson, Howard Eisley, Mike Sweetney, Frank Williams, Maciej Lampe, IMHO, were all good picks at the slots they were taken (not every player works out, but those were all guys that had a good chance). Did he have a couple misses, sure, but EVERY GM does. Overall, Layden has to be considered above-average drafting, based on history. God awful GM, though.

Originally posted by misterearl:

>>Did he have a couple misses, sure, but EVERY GM does. Overall, Layden has to be considered above-average drafting, based on history.
Say WHAT?
Lampe is a zero so far.
Howard Eisley, a career backup.
Frank Williiams was a zero.
Layden does not have a single transaction worth noting as Knicks GM
Not one.

Learn to read before you respond.

Layden made no good draft picks as a Knick. Sweetney? He's awful and he was picked ahead of Josh Howard. I thought all the other guys you mentioned were dead!

Posted by Solace:

Originally posted by Bonn1997:

Layden was good at picking out players in the draft? What draft moves did he make that worked out?

Say what you want. I know it's popular to hate on Layden. Andre Kirilenko, Shandon Anderson, Howard Eisley, Mike Sweetney, Frank Williams, Maciej Lampe, IMHO, were all good picks at the slots they were taken (not every player works out, but those were all guys that had a good chance). Did he have a couple misses, sure, but EVERY GM does. Overall, Layden has to be considered above-average drafting, based on history. God awful GM, though.

I have to completely disagree...
If Layden's draft skills were above average... or even just average.. he would not have traded Nene and Camby for McDysse. Nene was a good player that he gave away. Add that to the fact that he was picked ahead of Amare Stoudemire and no way do I give this guy any credit for his draft skills. Layden took inherited a pretty good team and turned it to crap.

Like I said, I know Layden-bashing is very popular around here (about as popular as kissing Isiah's ass), so I'm not going to argue. As usual, the point was missed, and it's missed by the same people who always miss it, so I come to expect it.

[Edited by - Solace on 07-31-2006 6:31 PM]

Look, Layden was a terrible GM when he was here and Isiah has been worse, and overall, Layden had one GREAT pick. I'm not sure if he had anything to do with Malone and Stockton. Anyone care to inform me? And Sweetney was supposed to be a real good player. He was outstanding in Georgetown and everyone did nothing but rave about him. And he was known for nothing but his work ethic. If all that came to fruition, we'd be dealing with an 18/8/1.5 player by now. But so far, Sweetney has nobody but himself to blame for his weight problems. And I still like him BTW and would even still like him as a Knick. So in my mind, Layden gets credit for the Sweetney pick.

Other than that, he's been terrible.