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Do you think the duo of Marbury and Francis can work out like Francis and Mobley?
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crzymdups
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7/12/2006  1:06 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

Francis has to go. The trade for Francis made no sense unless he was being brought in to replace Marbury, which never happened, or to be used in some other move down the line (which was speculated upon at the time of the trade).

Nothing against Francis; he can be an important piece on the right team, but I just don't see how he fits here.

one reason I think Brown may have signed off on the Francis trade is exactly that - I think he thought he was replacing Marbury. I think Zeke looked at it like adding an asset for trades over the summer. both guys were wrong.
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fishmike
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7/12/2006  1:38 PM
Do you think the duo of Marbury and Francis can work out like Francis and Mobley?
by "work out" if you mean goof off during practice, take a gazillion shots, not involve teammates and fail to make the playoffs despite posting good numbers year after year then yes. I certainly think Franbury can accomplish that.
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fishmike
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7/12/2006  1:46 PM
FYI: They made the playoffs together once. The following year both were traded as they were disgruntled in JVG's offense. Funny how all Francis did was complain about JVG and how he couldnt play for him because he didnt let him play his game, yet thats the only year he made the postseason.

Francis is an entertainer
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TMS
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7/12/2006  1:49 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Francis is an entertainer

so is this guy

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newyorknewyork
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7/12/2006  1:58 PM
Posted by fishmike:

FYI: They made the playoffs together once. The following year both were traded as they were disgruntled in JVG's offense. Funny how all Francis did was complain about JVG and how he couldnt play for him because he didnt let him play his game, yet thats the only year he made the postseason.

Francis is an entertainer

I agree with you on your view on Stevo. So im not trying to defend him. But he and Mobley hated JVG's system because it was ran through Yao Ming. But Yao took way to long to establish position. Which is what drove them crazy. The following yr when Houston traded for TMac they played that same way of waiting for Ming to establish position and went on a big losing streak. Then when they scrapped that and ran the ball and let TMac create they started winning again. Ming even put up his best #s when TMac was the creater. So Stevo & Mobley ended up being right in there view of the offense. But they had to go anyway because of the other things. And im sure if they weren't doing those other things then JVG would have let them have there way with the offense.
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BigC
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7/12/2006  2:03 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by fishmike:

Francis is an entertainer

so is this guy


and so is this guy
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Bippity10
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7/12/2006  2:05 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by fishmike:

FYI: They made the playoffs together once. The following year both were traded as they were disgruntled in JVG's offense. Funny how all Francis did was complain about JVG and how he couldnt play for him because he didnt let him play his game, yet thats the only year he made the postseason.

Francis is an entertainer

I agree with you on your view on Stevo. So im not trying to defend him. But he and Mobley hated JVG's system because it was ran through Yao Ming. But Yao took way to long to establish position. Which is what drove them crazy. The following yr when Houston traded for TMac they played that same way of waiting for Ming to establish position and went on a big losing streak. Then when they scrapped that and ran the ball and let TMac create they started winning again. Ming even put up his best #s when TMac was the creater. So Stevo & Mobley ended up being right in there view of the offense. But they had to go anyway because of the other things. And im sure if they weren't doing those other things then JVG would have let them have there way with the offense.


Where you are wrong is that TMac is a better player than Francis and Mobley. Tmac dominates games and can be literally unstoppable for months on end. That is why they made changes to the offense. Guys like Marbs and Mobley and Francis are great offensive players but they do not carry an offense like TMac does. So unfortunately for them they have to defer sometimes to other players. Unfortunately for their teams and especially their coach's they refuse to do this.
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newyorknewyork
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7/12/2006  2:19 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by fishmike:

FYI: They made the playoffs together once. The following year both were traded as they were disgruntled in JVG's offense. Funny how all Francis did was complain about JVG and how he couldnt play for him because he didnt let him play his game, yet thats the only year he made the postseason.

Francis is an entertainer

I agree with you on your view on Stevo. So im not trying to defend him. But he and Mobley hated JVG's system because it was ran through Yao Ming. But Yao took way to long to establish position. Which is what drove them crazy. The following yr when Houston traded for TMac they played that same way of waiting for Ming to establish position and went on a big losing streak. Then when they scrapped that and ran the ball and let TMac create they started winning again. Ming even put up his best #s when TMac was the creater. So Stevo & Mobley ended up being right in there view of the offense. But they had to go anyway because of the other things. And im sure if they weren't doing those other things then JVG would have let them have there way with the offense.


Where you are wrong is that TMac is a better player than Francis and Mobley. Tmac dominates games and can be literally unstoppable for months on end. That is why they made changes to the offense. Guys like Marbs and Mobley and Francis are great offensive players but they do not carry an offense like TMac does. So unfortunately for them they have to defer sometimes to other players. Unfortunately for their teams and especially their coach's they refuse to do this.

Truthfully everything I wrote was from an article I read when they tried breaking down why Houston started winning again.

TMac is a superior offensive talent to Marbury, Francis & Mobley. But that doesn't hide the fact that Ming wasn't ready to be the focal point of the offense neither times. And it was hurting Ming and the team. And in order to give the team the best chance to win until he were to bring his game to the level of Tim Duncan. Was to run the ball more rather than have a stationary post up game through Yao Ming.

[Edited by - newyorknewyork on 07-12-2006 2:20 PM]
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Bippity10
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7/12/2006  3:36 PM
I think JVG looked at it a different way. He didn't look at it as a year to year proposition. He looked at his team and said the meal ticket to becoming a great team was to design an offense around Yao. Year two he did that. Year two Mobs and Francis couldn't stand it. year two Mobes and Francis broken up because they refused to understand that if they were going to be really successful they would have to subjugate their games. Houston would be a great team today if those two were willing to do that. They weren't.

That's the difference between winning and being a show.
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arkrud
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7/12/2006  5:01 PM
We should start Marbs and Nate
Craf and Francis should come from the bench. And the last one better of the books..
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newyorknewyork
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7/12/2006  5:50 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

I think JVG looked at it a different way. He didn't look at it as a year to year proposition. He looked at his team and said the meal ticket to becoming a great team was to design an offense around Yao. Year two he did that. Year two Mobs and Francis couldn't stand it. year two Mobes and Francis broken up because they refused to understand that if they were going to be really successful they would have to subjugate their games. Houston would be a great team today if those two were willing to do that. They weren't.

That's the difference between winning and being a show.

Im not against them subjugating(I stole your word) there games for Yao. Or Marbury & Franchise subjugating there games for Curry. But when there ready, thats all im saying. Ming had trouble establishing position. Franchise & Mobes hated the fact that they had to keep waiting for Ming to establish positon. They felt why can't we ignite the offense and have Ming feed off of us. Now Ming is a little different from Curry as he has a way more advanced offensive game. And its not like they disobeyed his orders. They did what he said. They just didn't enjoy doing it. They made the playoffs the yr before they were traded. Who knows maybe as Ming grew and started getting in position earlier. They would have accepted falling back. But why not let Franchise & Mobes ignite the offense until Ming shows he is cappable of establishing position earlier on a consistant basis.

They never got that chance because of the goofing off in practice. And there to close for comfort friendship which turned JVG and there teammates off. They only won 2 extra games from the season before with Ming to the season they went to the playoffs. And the seasons before Ming went there. The team really wasn't that talented. They got set back by trading 3 draft picks for Eddie Griffin. So its not like Franchise playing style was the sole reason that the team was missing the playoffs especially how strong the west was those yrs. Its also a known fact that JVG hates scoring PGs and prefers his scoring from the SG position. And Franchise & Mobley weren't just given away either. They were traded for Tmac a superior offensvie talent. To be the Kobe to there Shaq.
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Bippity10
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7/12/2006  6:17 PM
I don't think Franchise and Mobley were the only reasons their team struggled. As a matter of fact they were the key to going as far as they did. They were the best players on that team. They won games because of those two. The problem is that in order to take it to the next level they needed to change their games in order to help Yao develop. They refused.

Not much has changed with Stevie and some of the other players like him on our team. If you don't design a system that is geared for their games they not only don't produce, they don't try hard and they complain. We have a lot of guys capable of scoring pionts. In order for us to take it to the next level someone has to take a step back. Curry is not a great offensive player. Curry gets into foul trouble a lot. But when you feed him the ball he changes the offense. He creates double teams. He forces men to help. He makes it easier for others to operate. In the long run this is how we will be successful. Is being a team that takes advantage of that.

Taking advantage of Marbs and Francis wins games for us. It probably gets us into the playoffs but making them the focus of our offense and building an offense around them will have us leveling out. Why bother with that. Lets build our offense around the guys that will be here 4 or 5 years from now. Let's focus our efforts and plans on Frye and Curry and Lee. Why are we building an offense around 30 year old guys who we know won't be here when we succeed anyway. Why? To win 41 games and make the playoffs that's why.
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TMS
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7/12/2006  6:26 PM
why else? just more of the same ol' crap unfortunately.
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Do you think the duo of Marbury and Francis can work out like Francis and Mobley?
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